Pembroke Mall Revelopment (Ongoing-Phase 1)

[urbanlife]

I am curious how the Pembroke Mall is doing during this pandemic. With malls on the decline before the pandemic, this year has seemed to expedite the death of many malls. I can't imagine Pembroke Mall being to evolve with the changing times and still keep functioning as a suburban mall.  I still hope that the whole site gets an urban redevelopment because when you combine it with the Town Center, it's about the same as 70-80 200ftx200ft blocks, the Pembroke site alone is about the same size as 30-32 blocks here in Portland, OR. That would make for a decent downtown.

[baobabs727]

16 hours ago, urbanlife said:

I am curious how the Pembroke Mall is doing during this pandemic. With malls on the decline before the pandemic, this year has seemed to expedite the death of many malls. I can't imagine Pembroke Mall being to evolve with the changing times and still keep functioning as a suburban mall.  I still hope that the whole site gets an urban redevelopment because when you combine it with the Town Center, it's about the same as 70-80 200ftx200ft blocks, the Pembroke site alone is about the same size as 30-32 blocks here in Portland, OR. That would make for a decent downtown.

Incredibly timely of you to pose this question because I had just written to Ramsay Smith, mall owner,  last night about this very subject. He responded early this AM.  We’ve been corresponding for many years. 

Coming attractions:

1) Impending announcement of a Senior Living Development with "age in place" capabilities. 

2) Negotiating a market rate multi-family project (“above” SteinMart location, which has been vacated).

3) Other “higher rise” plans which he is unable to divulge atm. 

4)  Impending announcement of a PPP with the City (Infrastructure contribution similar to what happened at Town Center).  

Additionally, he is no longer pursuing high-end bowling but maintaining a relationship with the very Best of the Best in that arena for possible reconsideration around 2024.

Pembroke Mall WILL be redeveloped into a true mixed-use concept in several stages. This is a multi-year plan, as he will systematically swap high income producing tenants for even higher income producing ventures better reflecting the highest and best use of that land.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

22 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Incredibly timely of you to pose this question because I had just written to Ramsay Smith, mall owner,  last night about this very subject. He responded early this AM.  We’ve been corresponding for many years. 

Coming attractions:

1) Impending announcement of a Senior Living Development with "age in place" capabilities. 

2) Negotiating a market rate multi-family project (“above” SteinMart location, which has been vacated).

3) Other “higher rise” plans which he is unable to divulge atm. 

4)  Impending announcement of a PPP with the City (Infrastructure contribution similar to what happened at Town Center).  

Additionally, he is no longer pursuing high-end bowling but maintaining a relationship with the very Best of the Best in that arena for possible reconsideration around 2024.

Pembroke Mall WILL be redeveloped into a true mixed-use concept in several stages. This is a multi-year plan, as he will systematically swap high income producing tenants for even higher income producing ventures better reflecting the highest and best use of that land.

 

This... sounds like a lot of high-rises. Hopefully they introduce a street grid pattern to the area as well to more fully integrate it with town center. Then it will feel like a true "downtown".

[urbanlife]

On 12/10/2020 at 4:33 PM, baobabs727 said:

Incredibly timely of you to pose this question because I had just written to Ramsay Smith, mall owner,  last night about this very subject. He responded early this AM.  We’ve been corresponding for many years. 

Coming attractions:

1) Impending announcement of a Senior Living Development with "age in place" capabilities. 

2) Negotiating a market rate multi-family project (“above” SteinMart location, which has been vacated).

3) Other “higher rise” plans which he is unable to divulge atm. 

4)  Impending announcement of a PPP with the City (Infrastructure contribution similar to what happened at Town Center).  

Additionally, he is no longer pursuing high-end bowling but maintaining a relationship with the very Best of the Best in that arena for possible reconsideration around 2024.

Pembroke Mall WILL be redeveloped into a true mixed-use concept in several stages. This is a multi-year plan, as he will systematically swap high income producing tenants for even higher income producing ventures better reflecting the highest and best use of that land.

 

That is really awesome, hopefully it would involve applying some sort of urban grid to the site, but nonetheless, this would be a big impact for you guys since it would almost triple the size of the current downtown, even if it was just mostly midrise buildings with a few towers. 

[baobabs727]

23 hours ago, vdogg said:

This... sounds like a lot of high-rises. Hopefully they introduce a street grid pattern to the area as well to more fully integrate it with town center. Then it will feel like a true "downtown".

I really hope so. I think the market will dictate, as always. Plus I know that while he’s patient, I don’t think he wants to wait  the 25-30++ years it might take to fill that property with high-rises . In the past, he has told me that he would very much like to do some “high-rises” (to mirror what’s been going on across the street), but this time I noted that he didn’t attribute that term to the market rate apartments and senior living project (he didn’t give me any height indications, and he also noted that there were no renderings available yet) and then went on to use the term “higher rises”referencing future developments that he didn’t want to disclose right now. I’ll try to get some clarification. 

13 hours ago, urbanlife said:

That is really awesome, hopefully it would involve applying some sort of urban grid to the site, but nonetheless, this would be a big impact for you guys since it would almost triple the size of the current downtown, even if it was just mostly midrise buildings with a few towers. 

In the past, he has always said that he would like to open up the mall through the Sears location and create more of a Town Center concept. I didn’t get anything back on that this time. That may not mean anything though. And I agree with you, it sounds like there are going to be some mid-rises with future higher-rises... but most importantly there will be density, and it will be complementary to what’s going on across the street.

Too bad Sifen didn’t do the same with his property (Wegmans). I’m assuming he just didn’t want to wait it out. He got a steal of a deal on that property and thus could “afford” do less.  Plus, let’s be frank:  He’s a strip mall developer. He wanted high income producing properties, right now.  The demand for retail was there, right now. He didn’t want to wait for even higher income-producing properties to come on-line, later—perhaps much later—on.

We all know how long it takes to develop density from scratch , especially in high-rise offering(s) in this market. Even Arlington has had to methodically develop density from virtually nothing over 10to 20 years (Ballston, etc). We just don’t have the growth here that we would need, economically and population-wise...job creation-wise...so the demand just isn’t there in Class A office. So we end up re-shuffling the deck chairs (local companies), cannibalizing other cities and even our own sub markets in VB.

Of course what we need to do is land a whale from outside of the market. That has never happened at Town  Center. They promised it very early on, but they still haven’t delivered. Apparently, we are a “hard sell.” 

Edited December 12, 2020 by baobabs727

[baobabs727]

Looks like they need to update this thing again. Last modified or amended 2014. 
 

https://www.vbgov.com/government/departments/planning/areaplans/Documents/Pembroke-TownCenter-CentralBusinessDistrict/PembrokeSGAPlan.pdf

[baobabs727]

1 minute ago, BFG said:

I agree the exterior could use some curves...at first I thought it was a hotel. But overall, I'm guessing this is the first step in revamping Pembroke into a continuation of Town Center?

That’s the plan.  But around here I never count my chickens ha ha. Look what happened to the Sandler property. Ironically, I think their loss will be Pembroke Mall’s gain, as Sifen isn’t going to be competing in the same arena. 

[Up2313]

This is a start and move in the right direction for that side of  the road in my opinion. Also impressive that they announced this during a pandemic. Excited to see any future potential expansions on pembroke malls property. 

[vdogg]

Thinking out loud here, if Armada Hoffler isn't real careful, Pembroke could wind up eating their lunch. This has the potential to be bigger than Town Center proper, and Pembroke already has a more established retail presence. Shouldn't take much to turn that mall inside out, might be something similar to the Peninsula Town Center in Hampton.  Armada Hoffler should get rolling on Columbus village sooner rather than later.

[urbanvb]

I agree wholeheartedly. And this could also spur redevelopment of those old Pembroke buildings. I'd love to see some new construction on that side behind the Hyatt Place.

[baobabs727]

Ramsay Smith, President of Pembroke Realty,  replied to my email this AM with some new info:  

The senior living component is market rate and was designed and programmed with direct input from...Target! Yes, apparently he needed Target to approve the design. He said there are balconies, at least on the two-story portion anyway. Also, there is a seventh floor open terrace and bar.  Sounds like the design is pretty much finalized. 

Two (2) more deals are in the works! The first one is the more concrete of the two and consists of 225 residential units—market rate and not age-restricted. He did not specify a total building story count nor a final height; however, he mentioned that the 225 units would built ON TOP of three (3) levels of parking...ON TOP of one (1) level of retail.  So...that’s four (4) stories...plus additional floors for 225 residences.  Sounds to me like a minimum of nine/ten (9/10) stories.

Since this project has retail and garage parking, I’m assuming it might be going  “above” the old Stein Mart facing VB Blvd.  And that is the precise wording he used to allude to an upcoming, market-rate residential development in an email to me late last year. 

He’s also working on a hotel deal. Discussions are preliminary. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

13 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Ramsay Smith, President of Pembroke Realty,  replied to my email this AM with some new info:  

The senior living component is market rate and was designed and programmed with direct input from...Target! Yes, apparently he needed Target to approve the design. He said there are balconies, at least on the two-story portion anyway. Also, there is a seventh floor open terrace and bar.  Sounds like the design is pretty much finalized. 

Two (2) more deals are in the works! The first one is the more concrete of the two and consists of 225 residential units—market rate and not age-restricted. He did not specify a total building story count nor a final height; however, he mentioned that the 225 units would built ON TOP of three (3) levels of parking...ON TOP of one (1) level of retail.  So...that’s four (4) stories...plus additional floors for 225 residences.  Sounds to me like a minimum of nine/ten (9/10) stories.

Since this project has retail and garage parking, I’m assuming it might be going  “above” the old Stein Mart facing VB Blvd.  And that is the precise wording he used to allude to an upcoming, market-rate residential development in an email to me late last year. 

He’s also working on a hotel deal. Discussions are preliminary. 

I'm thinking we get about 15 stories out of the apartments, *might eek out 20 (Premier I 9 stories and has 131 units with 1 floor of retail). Subtract ground floor and divide by 8 and you get 16.375 units per floor. Staying with this and dividing into 225 and you ge 13.74 floors (14). Basically take something the height of Premier or Cosmo, and plop it on top of a 4 story garage and that's what we're getting.

[vdogg]

Went and read an old article about the Westminster Canterbury Tower, and their development actually has fewer units. This might actually wind up being quite tall. 
 

“The apartment building would have 217 units and a 399-car garage on Ocean Shore Avenue, which lies between West Great Neck and Starfish roads.”

Also, I think River Tower only has 138 units. We might finally be getting another true high rise in TC.

[baobabs727]

1 hour ago, vdogg said:

Went and read an old article about the Westminster Canterbury Tower, and their development actually has fewer units. This might actually wind up being quite tall. 
 

“The apartment building would have 217 units and a 399-car garage on Ocean Shore Avenue, which lies between West Great Neck and Starfish roads.”

Also, I think River Tower only has 138 units. We might finally be getting another true high rise in TC.

I’m on it. Clarification request email sent earlier tonight. 

[urbanvb]

If they continue with their mixed use theme of construction maybe they should rename this mall to something different. Pembroke Place popped in my head but I'm sure there are many other names..

[baobabs727]

Mr. Smith responded that this development will be located "above" Stein Mart, and there are tentatively to be 4 floors of residential built upon 4 levels of garage/retail (1 retail, 3 garage). He said it should compete well with 4505 above West Elm @Town Center.

[vdogg]

I was wondering about the "above" part. Oh well. Was trying to figure out how they would drive piles to support a taller building. This is probably the max the existing structure can support. We'll get another high-rise there one day. I do wonder however why the oceanfront constantly gets high-rise hotels and residential, but it's so hard to come by in town center. You would think that would be reversed.

[urbanlife]

This is very promising for the Pembroke Mall site. I could see this being the beginning of redeveloping the whole site to a more urban layout with possibly a more urban style blocks mall rather than an indoor mall.  I do think any redevelopment of the mall will probably involve building around Target and REI. 

[vdogg]

Several items from Pembroke Square Associates are on the June 9th docket in association with the senior housing building. Renderings are not up yet, but should be shortly.

[vdogg]

[vdogg]

Buildings in the center are 20+ floors as discussed in the planning commission meeting today.

[vdogg]

The discussion today was only for the first few phases. For perspective, the residential buildings in the back are both 7-8 floors.

[BFG]

Wow! Can we get something like this at MacArthur and SPQ? 

[EJ_LEWIS]

5 minutes ago, BFG said:

Wow! Can we get something like this at MacArthur and SPQ? 

I think this concept would work better at the Military Circle Mall site.  I like what they are planning at Pembroke Mall, but again what's with Hampton Roads infatuation with vast parking lots?  Hide those things or build parking garages.  

[baobabs727]

58 minutes ago, vdogg said:

Buildings in the center are 20+ floors as discussed in the planning commission meeting today.

I have not reviewed the video, but it would appear that somebody was perhaps holding out on me lol! I'm not complaining though!