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Union Bleachery mixed use development.


gman430

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On 2/3/2022 at 8:17 PM, GVLover said:

I love this concept, I truly do, but I do wonder how much of this is a pipe dream? I know it’s like a 20-year development, but if that is the case the very first elements of this project will need to be high quality as the renderings suggest. In all likelihood, they’ll like reuse the existing buildings as the renderings suggest and try to create demand in that area and hopefully housing will at the bare minimum look like “Innovation Apartments.” 

I maintain these views, especially after looking at 13th Floor Investment portfolio. They don’t inspire a great deal of confidence that the project will come to fruition in any way we’ve been led to believe though at least they have a portfolio.

https://13fi.com/portfolio

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“The residential piece is what I like to refer to as the low-hanging fruit,” he told GSA Business Report. “Everybody, every developer that’s doing multifamily seems to want to come to Greenville and would love to be on our site, and they’ve literally been banging down our door. That’s the easy stuff.”

Source: On the Trail developer seeks to build corporate hub at $3.5B site > GSA Business

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21 minutes ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

I tend to agree, unfortunately; the demographics in this area aren't the most eye-catching, and corporate headquarters and retail typically looks for density and wealth.

2.5 years ago I might would have agreed.  Not now though. You may not be noticing it that much because it is outside the city limits, but there is a lot of gentrification and densification happening between Greenville and TR and this is in the center of it. Remember it is a 20 year build out. The major corporate offices might be the last thing to be built here, and maybe it won't be, but it isn't out of the question.  The retail, restaurant, entertainment and smaller office components I can totally foresee happening here.  

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I hope to be proven wrong but the location isn’t (1) adjacent to a major retail, office or residential district or (2) directly accessible from a major highway.  

Some residential, entertainment/restaurant and some local businesses?  Sure.  But any national chain retailer, national chain or high-end restaurant or major corporate headquarters would go to one of many other developments downtown or in the Eastside.  Or other areas along the Swamp Rabbit Trail but with stronger demographics.

Edited by PuppiesandKittens
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Or other areas along the Swamp Rabbit Trail but with stronger demographics.

I can't think of what that would be. North of TR would not be it.  Other than Pinestone, I doubt something like this would fly in TR.  The trail thru the city of Greenville is already developed.  Once the 2030 census is out, I think you will see a major shift in demographics. Lots of infill and lots of gentrification has been and will continue to take place. 

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2 hours ago, vicupstate said:

I can't think of what that would be. North of TR would not be it.  Other than Pinestone, I doubt something like this would fly in TR.  The trail thru the city of Greenville is already developed.  Once the 2030 census is out, I think you will see a major shift in demographics. Lots of infill and lots of gentrification has been and will continue to take place. 

The trail goes around Greenville Tech, Laurens Road, etc.; lots of develop-able areas with stronger demographics.

You’re right that the trail is creating better demographics in West Greenville but it’s a long way to go before demographics are what an A-list national business will want.  If I were a CEO of an A-list nationally-known business, looking for space near potential employees or customers, the County Square site, BridgeWay Station, downtown, etc. would all rank higher.

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2 hours ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

The trail goes around Greenville Tech, Laurens Road, etc.; lots of develop-able areas with stronger demographics.

You’re right that the trail is creating better demographics in West Greenville but it’s a long way to go before demographics are what an A-list national business will want.  If I were a CEO of an A-list nationally-known business, looking for space near potential employees or customers, the County Square site, BridgeWay Station, downtown, etc. would all rank higher.

Laurens Road a decade ago had a similar demographic or even less desirable. Laurens Road from DT to well beyond Pleasantburg Dr.  was pre-gentrification Nicholtown.  I can't think of even 60 acres much less 240 that are undeveloped along either Laurens or South Pleasantburg. S. Pleasantburg below Laurens has been in decline for about 15-20 years. 

Bridgeway is mostly retail and apartments.  The office component is not that big, IIRC.   County Square and DT would be exponentially more expensive than what I expect Union Bleachery will be.  I don't see them targeting exactly the same office tenants. 

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Yes, Union Bleachery would get tenants looking for lower-cost office space. Agreed.  And any stores and housing it gets would be lower-cost.

South Pleasantburg has been in decline for 30+ years, in my view.  It, and Laurens Road near downtown, have lots and lots of space that could be redeveloped and have a better location than Union Bleachery (closer to a highway and affluent neighborhoods).  

I’d think that a real estate developer could buy Pleasantburg Shopping Center and maybe parts of McAlister Square and nearby properties, demolish them and start over, and do well.

Edited by PuppiesandKittens
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Pleasantburg Shopping Center is 11 acres with two different property owners.  I do think brighter days are ahead for it, but only so much can be built on that much land, none of which is vacant.  You would still have to pay for buildings and then pay to remove them.     

McAlister Square is in government hands, so you can forget getting that.

Unless Greenville Country Club sells its course (they just built an entirely new clubhouse a few years ago) or Greenville Tech sells its campus, there are no major tracts in those areas.  Virtually every parcel fronting Laurens is under an acre and most are at or under 1/3 acre.  Cobbling any amount of acreage to do a major project would be very unlikely. 

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54 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Pleasantburg Shopping Center is 11 acres with two different property owners.  I do think brighter days are ahead for it, but only so much can be built on that much land, none of which is vacant.  You would still have to pay for buildings and then pay to remove them.     

McAlister Square is in government hands, so you can forget getting that.

Unless Greenville Country Club sells its course (they just built an entirely new clubhouse a few years ago) or Greenville Tech sells its campus, there are no major tracts in those areas.  Virtually every parcel fronting Laurens is under an acre and most are at or under 1/3 acre.  Cobbling any amount of acreage to do a major project would be very unlikely. 

Yes, it will all be a hassle to redevelop, but basically all of Laurens Road from downtown to Haywood, and all of Pleasantburg between 385 and Faris Road, is underutilized.  Those areas have good highway access and are near very desirable commercial and residential neighborhoods.  

At some point they will be redeveloped; their current values are probably pretty low, and at some point will be so low that new construction will be justified.  Plans for McAlister Square include building mixed-use buildings filling its parking lot, for example.

The West End had multiple owners and derelict buildings and look what happened to it.

Edited by PuppiesandKittens
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16 hours ago, vicupstate said:

Unless Greenville Country Club sells its course . . .  there are no major tracts in those areas. 

Never really thought about that idea before, but they could, say, sell #6, which is an expansive par-5, and maybe half of #7. There is a fair amount of acreage elsewhere on their property where they could shoehorn in a new hole or maybe 2. And there's a pretty big buffer below #6. They could do such a thing without having to give up their course or a suitable buffer. Some of those office buildings fronting 291 are getting pretty old.

However, the property slopes back toward the course & the river, so runoff problems would be a likelihood. Esp. since ##2-5 are partially or entirely in the Reedy's flood plain.

When hell freezes over, of course. But it's fun to think about.

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Despite my doubts, I hope that Union Bleachery succeeds.  Greenville has so much under-utilized areas close to downtown that really ought to be redeveloped before building further out.  Union Bleachery, Laurens Road, McAlister Square, the swath south of the downtown airport, etc.: all underutilized and outdated, and ripe for redevelopment.

Edited by PuppiesandKittens
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The vast majority of parcels along both roads are only  100-200 feet deep with SF residential directly behind them.  You would not likely get the SF lots rezoned either.  That is especially true of Laurens.  It will redevelop but in parcel by parcel projects, not massive redevelopments.

S. Pleasantburg is in decline and it is just about the only part of the city that you can say that about. Might be good buying opportunity but what it would take a lot of assemblage and many, many sellers agreeing to do much there.   

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Yes, it would be a big hassle.  The legal, title, etc. fees to assemble enough parcels to do a major redevelopment would be significant.  But someone could do well with the effort.  

Union Bleachery had site contamination but someone still is redeveloping it.  I’d think that assembling small parcels would be less of a risk than dealing with contamination.

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https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2022/10/04/union-bleachery-mill-greenville-break-ground-later-this-year/69522723007/

Quote
The latest steps in the process include obtaining land-disturbance permits and submitting responses to county feedback on the group's stormwater plan, Warhaft said. And loggers are supposed to be on site in next six to eight weeks to begin clearing trees to make way for development.
Developers also recently provided their proposed environmental cleanup plans to the Environmental Protection Agency for what is still the Superfund-site portion of the property — a designation that means the land is one of the most potentially hazardous contamination sites in the country because of contaminated surface water, groundwater and sediment from previous operations.
The developers expect a response to their plans from the federal agency in the coming weeks, Warhaft said.
The EPA is also moving to delist another large portion of the property in spring of next year, meaning that land will immediately move into the state Brownfields program, which offers liability protection and financial incentives for landowners who voluntarily clean up contaminated properties.

 

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