Spectrum - Monroe North Campus

[GR_Urbanist]

3 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I guess I whole heartedly disagree. Seems like a defeatist attitude. If the business needs a zoning change due to the type of use, the city can (and should) IMHO say no. I thought that was what planning and zoning boards did, ensure that redevelopment fits the plan. 

The comment about the rapids restoration or park not being valid since ground hasn’t been turned is garbage.  Millions of dollars get spent before shovels hit dirt, we DO have a master plan, and truly great cities are planned and curated. Mediocre cities throw up their hands and say do whatever you want. 

I’m frustrated that the city doesn’t get tougher. Other than opposing transient alcohol sales, mo one seemed overly concerned about putting a Kum N Go on a busy gateway to downtown GR.

I personally think the city needs to take a harder stance and tell developers if you want to build crap developments, value engineer the heck out of plans, knock stories off your development, just don’t build and come back when you’ve got better plans. Space downtown is finite. Build it right, or let’s wait until someone will. 

Joe

The fact that these things happen show we aren't remotely in the position to demand anything this aggressively. This facility isnt going in any place that is a hot location. The gym that was there closed, and these are the people that bought the building likely because they were the only ones that stepped up to do so. Again, the building is surrounded by absolutely nothing that would complement a more "interesting" use, and is otherwise isolated in a dead part of town. GR will want the tax revenue more than to make an example out of these people. That's just the cold reality that exists independent of what we desire here.

The city can certainly tell developers to take a hike because they water-down their projects or because they just arent impressive. Those developers will do just that if they feel like the city at the tier GR is on is being way too picky. We arent as hot to the outside world as we like to believe, with businesses leaving close cities like Chicago dont even give a glance at us as they look for a new place to land. And the current economic climate will certainly humble anyone in the city government real quick if they get too aggressive toward a developer because the building isnt as tall as their renderings showed. Those guys will throw a finger up and tell us to kick rocks.

 Maybe on Pearl street they have that leverage, but on this part of Ottawa? It's a whole other deck of cards at this time. DTGR has several significant empty ground floors and "for rent" signs in far more active parts of DT to make an example of this location.

 

I get the frustration too, but it is what it is right now.

 

At the very least they aren't proposing to demolish it.

 

[Jonesey]

There's a storage facility about 500 feet away from this one at Coldbrook & Clancy, do we really need another?

[grandrollerz]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:13 PM, GRLaker said:

Can we talk about the fact that Cornhole Health ripped off the API Healthcare logo?

Sort of, API Healthcare doesn’te exist . And so the logo mark is no more. They were bought by Symplr and its now Symplr Workforce Management 

https://www.symplr.com/press-releases/clearlake-capital-backed-symplr-to-acquire-api-healthcare

[droonus2000]

Can anyone tell me what actually entails converting 875 Ottawa to self storage? Are we talking floor to ceiling concrete? Or just throwing up some studs and drywall to divide up the spaces? 

What I’m getting at is how hard would it be to transition from storage to  say housing and retail in 10-20 years if market conditions change in that area? 

Right now I agree with GR_Urbanist. There is nothing drawing pedestrians in this area right now, and I don’t think that changes until Autocam is gone. I think the city really should push for quality development and make the best attempt to fulfill the master plan, but this space has been vacant for years, I’ve long thought a clothing shop in the end with windows would be gorgeous, but for right now storage may very well be the best use. 

[RiversideGR]

9 hours ago, droonus2000 said:

There is nothing drawing pedestrians in this area right now, and I don’t think that changes until Autocam is gone. 

You make some good points.  The size of the Autocam (or Autodie?) facility is jarring from an aerial perspective. 

I think the city's continued plans to develop parkland along the perimeter of the district will continue to bring growth, just not at the pace we would like. 

[joeDowntown]

Took a look a the progress of development today. My first thought is that they are doing really nice brickwork on the building. Hope they do this all the way to the top and don’t swap it out for a cheaper material as they get further up. The pattern is pretty cool (pics below). 

Second, I drove around the back and noticed they’re going vertical with a parking ramp. To my surprise, they’ve already completed another ramp tucked between the new building and the parking structure for embassy suites (if you don’t look closely, they look like the same ramp). That area was so torn up for so long, I could never get a good view of what was going on so I was really surprised:

 

[joeDowntown]

Drove by the Corewell development. A few observations:

1. The skywalk is starting to take shape and I think the "courtyard" between the new building and Brassworks will be an interesting feature of the development

2. The brickwork on the new building is very intricate. Looks great!

3. I think North Monroe now has the largest saturation of parking anywhere in the city. Between Embassy Suites, the two ramps Corewell is building, 601 Bond, and the surface lots scattered around, this area has its fill of parking for the next 50 years.

4. They build the parking structures FAST. Last time I stopped by, there was only rebar sticking out from the ground. The second ramp looks very close to being completely vertical.

5. Big E's is open again in Embassy Suites. 

[joeDowntown]

They're starting to add glass to the Corewell building:

 

[joeDowntown]

Progress photo from today:

 

[numstead]

Noticed this afternoon that all the glazing is installed along Monroe and it's obscured (frosted) up to about 10' above street level. Doesn't appear to be any  permeability through that side of the building. Safe to assume the front door is at the parking deck. How very suburban...

[whitemice]

8 hours ago, numstead said:

Safe to assume the front door is at the parking deck. How very suburban...

I feel like we've known for awhile this building was going to be a negative for that area.

Was just down there . . . and what is the street (Monroe Ave) interface of this thing?  This building has its back to Monroe, the main-street of downtown.

[Allison Slater]

[Cookin_peacocks]

1 hour ago, Allison Slater said:

None of your pictures work, mate.

[Allison Slater]

Well that's mildly annoying

[joeDowntown]

Checked in on the project today. Personally, I don’t think the building seems nearly as fortress like as others have said (someone even said it was a negative for the neighborhood?). I wonder if they’ll funnily most Monroe traffic through the Brassworks building entrance? Will be interesting to see what the renovation of brassworks looks like when finished and how it relates to the skywalks, etc. between the two buildings. 

The windows in the photo look dark, but it’s actually pretty transparent IRL (except for the frosted portion along the bottom. Part of me wondered if it was temporary. Seems like a weird spot, as it probably would only obstruct the view up to desk level inside the building (unless I was interpreting things wrong). 
 

[Zads]

Crain's coming through with a rather significant update. Looks like Corewell will tear down some buildings in Monroe North and turn into parking lots for their employees. They do want to build residential as well to supply for "residents/fellows".

I don't like the idea of tearing down buildings for parking lots. But I understand the reasoning here as well, as they combine employees into one campus. I would prefer the buildings torn down turn into parking garages with residential on top of them, as parking lots add nothing to the neighborhood.

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/real-estate/corewell-health-master-plan-calls-for-razing-buildings-to-make-way-for-housing-parking/

[joeDowntown]

Agreed, but I think we all knew it was coming. I like that they are planning two residential developments; one for residents/fellows, the other market rate. Sounds like they want to start the residents building ASAP. They mention proximity to the hospital. Sounds logical until it’s January and you are hiking up that hill.

I wonder if they’ll run a shuttle 24/7 between the Monroe north campus and Butterworth?

I hope they partner with someone on the market rate housing and go  “big”. Could be a lot of new residential in Monroe North in the next few years. 

Joe

[demhem]

"Monroe North: your newest suburban office park!" /s This is really disappointing and I hope that the Planning Commission holds its ground like they did  recently with Mary Free Bed. The housing is great, but the amount of surface parking will significantly set the neighborhood back. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by demhem

[GR_Urbanist]

45 minutes ago, demhem said:

"Monroe North: your newest suburban office park!" /s This is really disappointing and I hope that the Planning Commission holds its ground like they did  recently with Mary Free Bed. The housing is great, but the amount of surface parking will significantly set the neighborhood back. 

As I said in 2021:

Quote

This was my gut feeling reading about the building they bought yesterday as well. Spectrum going on a buying spree in N. Monroe is a bad sign that they are just locking down properties that they will sit on for years, and use the buildings to either store stuff or to demolish them for a parking lot and/or a place to put company-owned utility vehicles, like what you see on the S. side of Michigan on the hill, and St. Mary's has done on Wealthy.

I just dont know if the city is really being firm that N. Monroe is not supposed to become a glorified office park where 2/3rds of it behind Monroe is devoted to parking, service streets, and otherwise dead space, with a thin strip of buildings along one street. Sort of like what we saw these institutions had in mind before Heritage Hill took away the land they were gunning for 50 years ago.

And from their supposed original "plans", they are severely altering what they sold to the city which was not supposed to be turning a massive chunk of N. Monroe into suburban office park.

 

The Bait:

The Switch

 

They were supposed to put a liner building around their ramp @ Newberry and Ottawa and that other lot was supposed to be a "future development zone". There darn sure wasn't supposed to be more clear-cutting on the area for EVEN MORE SURFACE PARKING LOTs totaling over 200 spaces! And some token "housing" is likely just more nonsense to sucker the Planning Commission into approving plowing under everything else I mean Throwbridge, Bond, Fairbanks, and Ottawa will literally ring a BLOCK LONG SURFACE PARKING LOT! Like where do they think this is? Metro Health?

This is beyond unacceptable. I'm actually disgusted that institutions like this keep pulling this. St. Mary's should have taught the city that you do not let these places screw up parts of the city fabric for their 5th rate plans that cant seem to exist without massive parking lots.

I dont write many letters to the city, but this is way too arrogant for at least someone to not say something! It is not enough to just shurg shoulders.

[MJLO]

Spectrum(I hate saying Corewell) is already building literal towers of parking at this point.  When I worked there they had a critical parking shortage for employees.  I just took the bus in,  they made it super easy to take the bus. From a 9-5 standpoint the bus system in GR works pretty well if you're commuting inside the urban area(or at least it did).  Since I've had to move from GR I don't know the transit setup anymore, or if the route that travels up and down Michigan is still free.   I understand the bulk of Spectrum employees are suburbanites that don't live on transit corridors. Nor is the collective mindset geared toward taking public transit.  I'm sure parking accessibility is a huge liability toward retention, but seriously how much more parking do they need?

I agree the city should fight this.  I'd rather see another big ramp get built in No-Mo than a sea of  parking.  The real question is will we ever actually see the region invest in actual, meaningful transit infrastructure  that is convenient enough to mode shift a good chunk of downtown commuters away from autos?   Even upgrading existing BRT routes to actual "rapid" with full time dedicate lanes and guideways might be enough to tip the scale.   I know, I know....I'm being an idealist which is uncharacteristic of me.   

[Jonesey]

On 9/29/2023 at 1:44 PM, demhem said:

"Monroe North: your newest suburban office park!" /s This is really disappointing and I hope that the Planning Commission holds its ground like they did  recently with Mary Free Bed. The housing is great, but the amount of surface parking will significantly set the neighborhood back. 

I don't really see the comparison bw Spectrum and Mary Free Bed.  How many surface lots does Spectrum have in the core compared to MFB or even Grand Valley?  I don't like surface lots, but these are not going to stay surface lots, the land is just far too valuable.  Corewell is now the largest employer in Michigan, which is impressive.  They will keep growing and their employees need housing.  It's not turning into Southfield

Environmentally, it seems super wasteful to tear down recently upgraded buildings like the distillery, but legally an unused building is much more of a liability than a parking lot.  I believe a pretty significant amount of waste in landfills is demo-d buildings from what I've heard 

[GR_Urbanist]

11 hours ago, Jonesey said:

I don't really see the comparison bw Spectrum and Mary Free Bed.  How many surface lots does Spectrum have in the core compared to MFB or even Grand Valley?  I don't like surface lots, but these are not going to stay surface lots, the land is just far too valuable.  Corewell is now the largest employer in Michigan, which is impressive.  They will keep growing and their employees need housing.  It's not turning into Southfield

Environmentally, it seems super wasteful to tear down recently upgraded buildings like the distillery, but legally an unused building is much more of a liability than a parking lot.  I believe a pretty significant amount of waste in landfills is demo-d buildings from what I've heard 

That's not how it works.

Parking lots are there for DECADES. They are not temporary no matter what anyone says. They cost a ton to put down, and they arent going to be ripped up for at least a generation. There are zero examples DT of this happening short of at least 2 decades. We even still have parking lots from the 1960s dotting the area. If that land was that valuable, they wouldn't be devoting the hundreds of thousands of dollars to paving it over. Look at the near west side on Pearl, for example, where a whole neighborhood went to the wrecking ball for massive lots that 20 years latter are still there. We also got a story of "redevelopment" on valuable land if we just clear out some obsolete buildings that no one will miss. To this day nothing has appeared. Time and time again the city keeps making the same boneheaded mistake of "urban renewal", leaving parts of the DT area as nothing but used car lots for decades while paying lip-service to all of the buzzwords like "walkability" and mixed-use. The only reason "medical mile" isnt a "medical office park" is due to the geography of the highway, and the legality of the Heritage Hill District that prevented Butterworth from wiping out tracts of land for asphalt.

Corewell knew they were not honest when they floated their original plans.  Their facility here hasn't gotten any bigger or taller, so why do they all of a sudden need the blocks of surface parking lots beyond what their original plans called for, which was 2 ramps that were to be shielded with a liner building and one additional small surface lot? The answer is likely this parking expansion was part of the plans from the start but going the city with what amounted to a modest building and renovation, and a boat load of surface lots would have made it a much harder sell.

I personally think the "housing" is fictitious anyway.  Remember, they arent legally obligated to ever build it.  I think floating it is just to entice votes because housing is the big thing on the minds of city officials, and paring it as a carrot to get the chance to quickly cement their parking lots down as part of the deal (which is what they really want), with the housing just some future "phase" that will quietly be shelved like the liner building from their original plans. A developer tactic that St. Mary's made into an art form to get all of their parking lots. Those guys were only stopped in their last attempt with a huge pushback that actually led to the PC rejecting their demolition request.

 

And besides this, why is it that GVSU can run what must be the longest bus route in this half of the state, that runs from Allendale to PAST Corewell's buildings on Michigan, but Corwell can't run one a fraction of the size for its staff from an out lot on Michigan near Plymouth to the hill and then down to  the 6th Street bridge? 

[joeDowntown]

I get what you are saying, yet I don’t get what you are saying. Looking at what you have labeled bait and switch, they aren’t drastically different from Ottawa, west. They are showing more green space where liner buildings were indicated, and a parking lot that was marked “future dev zone”, but the rest is relatively the same (as long as they do develop the residential portion and not simply pave it (I hope the city doesn’t allow them to add temporary parking and they have to keep it open until it’s developed). 

East of Ottawa is definitely a concern, but I don’t think the price of a surface lot is so costly that it won’t be developed for decades. Especially at the price they paid for some of these buildings (I believe Eastern Kill got quite a payday selling their building). 

I’m not a fan of a sea of parking, but I also don’t think Corewell is trying to pull some sort of Super Evil Mega Corp. maneuver to dupe the city. 

Joe

[demhem]

On 10/1/2023 at 7:25 AM, joeDowntown said:

I get what you are saying, yet I don’t get what you are saying. Looking at what you have labeled bait and switch, they aren’t drastically different from Ottawa, west. They are showing more green space where liner buildings were indicated, and a parking lot that was marked “future dev zone”, but the rest is relatively the same (as long as they do develop the residential portion and not simply pave it (I hope the city doesn’t allow them to add temporary parking and they have to keep it open until it’s developed). 

East of Ottawa is definitely a concern, but I don’t think the price of a surface lot is so costly that it won’t be developed for decades. Especially at the price they paid for some of these buildings (I believe Eastern Kill got quite a payday selling their building). 

I’m not a fan of a sea of parking, but I also don’t think Corewell is trying to pull some sort of Super Evil Mega Corp. maneuver to dupe the city. 

Joe

I'm sure we can all speculate endlessly regarding the intention of the original proposal vs what is being proposed now. Either way, I would argue that the current application that will go before the Planning Commission is unacceptable for an urban core. We can discuss all we want to on here, but if there are those of us who do not agree with Corewell's plan, we should be communicating it to the Planning Commission in writing, by attending the meeting, etc. 

[grandrollerz]

It's worth remembering that the LOCAL BOARD OF DIRECTORS pulled the plug on Spectrum Health's plans to move to the entirety of this campus to land they owned on the East Beltline.  It wasn't even supposed to be here so there weren't really plans to do any of this. Sure they owned a lot here and there, but then they had to go purchasing. They had to buy Brassworks. They had to buy Eastern kills.  There is/was a plan for the existing/forecasted demand, and now they are trying to fill that demand within the direction of the board and the confines of North Monroe.

I agree the plans don't look that far off from the original. I like to think the the Switchback park plan will happen.  Plans I've seen have Division re-routing onto Ionia and the park extending down to what is now Division. Seems unlikely that it wouldn't get developed in that scenario.  Seems more likely Switchback will happen with it being a connector to the Medical Mile and a quality of life thing for the residents housing et al..   Another thing to consider is that the parking structures could be Condo co-ops with MSU. That's certainly the case with 25/35 Michigan so there's precedent.

MJLO nails it....

On 9/30/2023 at 8:01 AM, MJLO said:

The real question is will we ever actually see the region invest in actual, meaningful transit infrastructure  that is convenient enough to mode shift a good chunk of downtown commuters away from autos?   Even upgrading existing BRT routes to actual "rapid" with full time dedicate lanes and guideways might be enough to tip the scale.   I know, I know....I'm being an idealist which is uncharacteristic of me.   

 

On 10/1/2023 at 6:57 AM, GR_Urbanist said:

why is it that GVSU can run what must be the longest bus route in this half of the state...but Corwell can't run one a fraction of the size for its staff from an out lot on Michigan near Plymouth to the hill and then down to  the 6th Street bridge? 

...and this, this is apples and oranges.  GVSU is shuttling young people between two fixed points serviced by a bus with a good portion of its constituents not owning cars/not allowed cars.  Spectrum Health is like 3000 starting points daily, for people aged all the way up to 65+, all going to one destination. The reason it won't work is because the suburban employees will NOT ride the bus. Period. Full stop. They will go work somewhere else where they can drive and park.  And you can't incentivize them to park in Walker, or Plainfield Two or Grandville or wherever and ride the city bus in because they refuse to ride the bus with the poors.  Not for lack of trying tho, because they DID run a shuttle from that lot on Plymouth, but it DIDN'T work for the aforementioned reasons.  They took a beating on that shuttle service.  

These parking structures are the result of that, plus the board's decision.