Greenville City Hall

[gman]

"Deal to sell Greenville’s City Hall could come before July in building swap." https://www.postandcourier.com/greenville/business/deal-to-sell-greenvilles-city-hall-could-come-before-july-in-building-swap/article_804aa450-c7d6-11eb-9ebc-8bbf57f910b3.html

[vicupstate]

City Hall relocation presentation for City Council

There would only be one  entrance to the building, which would be the one facing the park (with the three story atrium) and not the one across from Grand Bohemian.   This allows greater security for the building. The city would not occupy the top floor, which would be leased to other (probably existing) tenants. Obviously over time that might be used for expansion of city offices.

I wonder what CAP's plans are for City Hall. Obviously they have to means to do something really big. 

[vicupstate]

City council got a briefing last night in Executive session on the deal negotiations.  Hopefully, we will get some public info soon.   

[gman]

Not going to happen. https://www.postandcourier.com/greenville/business/greenville-ends-plan-to-move-city-hall-to-falls-park-focuses-on-public-safety-hq/article_6900e28e-4975-11ec-8a5f-237e3ac0ab21.html?utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

[Horatio Nelson]

59 minutes ago, gman said:

Not going to happen. https://www.postandcourier.com/greenville/business/greenville-ends-plan-to-move-city-hall-to-falls-park-focuses-on-public-safety-hq/article_6900e28e-4975-11ec-8a5f-237e3ac0ab21.html?utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

That's a shame. Can't read the article, what happened?

[apaladin]

Prolly a good move. 

[GVLer]

It would just be nice to see the current City Hall building have an exterior renovation.....regardless of the occupant.

[gman430]

Thank goodness. Finally some good news downtown. 

[vicupstate]

56 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Thank goodness. Finally some good news downtown. 

How so? The opportunity to repurpose an out of date building in a prime location is gone.  Plus the office absorption is gone as well.  

[vicupstate]

From the Greenville News:

 

Greenville city officials are abandoning plans — for now — to move City Hall to the former Bowater Building in downtown Greenville after land swap negotiations fell through. 

But the city hasn't completely discarded plans to relocate the seat of city power, Mayor Knox White said. If the city decides to take a second shot at the move to Bowater, it would be through a public-private partnership, he said. 

"We'd have to go in a different direction," White said. "I think the desire is still there, and we'll let the dust settle for a while." 

The city announced plans in May to sell its aging City Hall on Main Street and move to the former Bowater Building, a 4-story office building with nearly 100,000 square feet of space located prominently by Falls Park.

White called the move a "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity." The new building would offer a one-stop shop for city operations and better public access to City Council chambers, which were slated for construction on the first floor of the building. 

To bring the $20 million-plus deal to fruition, City Manager John McDonough began pursuing negotiations that included a land swap with the Bowater Building's owners, local financial planner Erik Weir and Camperdown developer Brody Glenn. 

Initial asking price for the Bowater was around $21 million, White said in June, and the old City Hall building was appraised for $8 million.

But negotiations faltered when the two parties couldn't reconcile costs, White said Saturday. 

"It kind of came to not enough for the City Hall site, too much for the Bowater Building," he said.

In the meantime, officials are staring down renovation needs in the old City Hall, which is plagued by issues such as water damage and poor public accessibility. The building would require $5.75 million in the next eight years for maintenance, alone, if city staff were to remain in place, according to city estimates. 

"We'll be revisiting the whole scenario," White said. 

[gman430]

23 hours ago, vicupstate said:

How so? The opportunity to repurpose an out of date building in a prime location is gone.  Plus the office absorption is gone as well.  

I guess. I’d rather see a company take over the Bowater space and bring jobs downtown rather than just more relocating of government services. 

[vicupstate]

There isn't and hasn't been anything to keep a private company from taking the space for years. It's an older building and if a major new player came to town, they would probably prefer a newer Class A building. 

The city doesn't need to put another dollar into the current city hall, if they are planning to move eventually.  If it ends up in new hands, they will probably do a major renovation of their own that would negate any of the work the city did.  

The city should do an RFP (Request For Proposals) to see what other options there might be to relocate city hall.  I've always thought the Prisma building could be a good option. It is even older than Bowater building (and thus probably cheaper per foot) and the ground floor along McBee could be repurposed for a restaurant, while the city could put the council chambers and visitor's center in the Spring Street side of the ground floor and take the upper floors for offices.  

Maybe Roco would make an offer to put them in the County Square redevelopment.   A nearly 100k SF office tenant would be a nice kick start. 

[ingvegas]

18 hours ago, vicupstate said:

....

Maybe Roco would make an offer to put them in the County Square redevelopment.   A nearly 100k SF office tenant would be a nice kick start. 

This is a very interesting idea. Sell City Hall to Rocco, or swap building-for-land in the County Square development. Then build City Hall to exact specifications they want, and future proof it as much as possible it. Rocco could work with city on timelines, too.

City Hall remains  centrally located with easy access off of Church. Rocco benefits because the move will make County Square development even more dense, and accelerate it's growth. City Hall will be almost next door to the new County building. 

Greenville governments are set for the next 100+ years. 

[Skyliner]

Another idea would be incorporate a new city hall into a larger mixed-use development bordered by Main Street, Broad Street, and Falls Street.  Keep city hall on Main Street and near Falls Park if at all possible.

[GvilleSC]

5 minutes ago, Skyliner said:

Another idea would be incorporate a new city hall into a larger mixed-use development bordered by Main Street, Broad Street, and Falls Street.  Keep city hall on Main Street and near Falls Park if at all possible.

I much prefer keeping City Hall within the traditional boundaries of the CBD. 

I understand the idea of placing City Hall adjacent to Falls Park, but I don't like how they had planned to ignore the Camperdown/Falls Street intersection in an effort to address the River. I am in agreement with everyone who is saying the City should build what they want, and not shoe-horn their program into an inadequate space. 

[gman430]

1 hour ago, GvilleSC said:

I much prefer keeping City Hall within the traditional boundaries of the CBD. 

I understand the idea of placing City Hall adjacent to Falls Park, but I don't like how they had planned to ignore the Camperdown/Falls Street intersection in an effort to address the River. I am in agreement with everyone who is saying the City should build what they want, and not shoe-horn their program into an inadequate space. 

Not sure what you mean. They’re not ignoring that intersection at all. There’s a major streetscape project underway there right now. 

[GvilleSC]

4 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Not sure what you mean. They’re not ignoring that intersection at all. There’s a major streetscape project underway there right now. 

No, you're misunderstanding: the way they had the orientation of the building's program laid out, they were placing the entrance off of the Falls Park side of the building, with that street intersection becoming back of house access. That corner needs to stay a public access point for whomever occupies this building in the future. See Vicupstate's post toward the top of Page 2 of this thread.

[vicupstate]

Greenville debates City Hall's future as it acquires Public Safety HQ

Selective excerpts:

Greenville plans to take possession later this month of an expansive six-story building off of Haywood Road that will become the city’s new public safety campus.

Renovations will begin on the former Fluor Daniel office building on Halton Road after May 21. It will house the police department, municipal court and fire department headquarters. Police and fire will move as soon as internet and IT services are up and running at the site. 

With the public safety project moving forward, officials are considering the future of the current Greenville city hall on South Main Street, weighing whether to renovate it or find a new location.

 

The municipal court building on North Main Street has outlived its use, White said. Built in 1946, the facility is deteriorating and last summer had to shut down when pipes burst, spilling sewage into the halls. The move also allows the city to sell the valuable property the court sits on at the corner of North Main and Academy Street.

 

City officials said they are now exploring whether to overhaul the current city hall or move to another downtown building. Given the age of the current tower and the logistics of working in a building while renovations take place, White said he would prefer to move city hall to a new location. He also hopes to reopen the conversation about the Bowater building.

“From my perspective, I think city hall belongs on Main Street,” he said. “The only exception would be if an opportunity arises at the waterfall.”

 

[GVLover]

I’ve never been in the current City Hall, but would it work as a hotel? 21C would be an amazing brand to have here. 

[vicupstate]

3 hours ago, GVLover said:

I’ve never been in the current City Hall, but would it work as a hotel? 21C would be an amazing brand to have here. 

Boutique hotels come in so many shapes, sizes, configurations, I am sure it could work. 

The former BB&T black metal high rise in the center of Asheville was converted into a hotel. 

[PuppiesandKittens]

3 hours ago, vicupstate said:

Boutique hotels come in so many shapes, sizes, configurations, I am sure it could work. 

The former BB&T black metal high rise in the center of Asheville was converted into a hotel. 

Agreed.

It could also probably be fixed up into class A office space; I see old office buildings elsewhere stripped to the frame and rebuilt as sleek new buildings.  (Daniel Building, I know that you’re begging for that, too.)

[gman430]

https://images1.loopnet.com/d2/2Y7yMAiYecunoIxupVKaFhqSQQH9JaM1x1MOppxwzbU/Flyer.pdf

[distortedlogic]

1 hour ago, gman430 said:

https://images1.loopnet.com/d2/2Y7yMAiYecunoIxupVKaFhqSQQH9JaM1x1MOppxwzbU/Flyer.pdf

I don't like the external elevator shaft, but I always kinda liked the dark cladding. Just about every city has a version of this building, and I personally don't want this one to be remade, at least externally. The one that needs to be redone is the Landmark!

[vicupstate]

Interesting that there has been no mention of this whatsoever. It is also puzzling that the RFP says 'upper 5 floors'.   The mention of 'air rights' is odd too.  The RFP should be for a strict sale of the entire building, IMO. Never cared for this building and would like to see the exterior changed in the same way that the old BB&T building was converted into a hotel in Asheville. 

[GvilleSC]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:04 PM, vicupstate said:

Interesting that there has been no mention of this whatsoever. It is also puzzling that the RFP says 'upper 5 floors'.   The mention of 'air rights' is odd too.  The RFP should be for a strict sale of the entire building, IMO. Never cared for this building and would like to see the exterior changed in the same way that the old BB&T building was converted into a hotel in Asheville. 

Yea, I find the 5 floor language quite strange. I'm wondering if the 'air rights' is related to the public restrooms/fountain? In order to make the property more usable, they probably need to include as much area as possible. I imagine that any purchase of this property, especially if you're considering air rights, brings the anticipation of demolition and new construction on the site. I'm happy to see the City still considering options, and being open to ideas. Kudos to leaders for seeking out creativity. 

As an aside, I actually like the International style of City Hall. It may not be the BEST example of the style, but still adds some diversity to the architectural language of Greenville.