Military Circle Redevelopment

[vdogg]

Here's an older rendering of the military circle redevelopment plan. Just a reminder that the city plans some pretty intensive uses for that area. I like an arena, but I’d also like to make sure we have this type of development there as well.

 

[BFG]

An arena with high-rise mixed-use developments surrounding it would be awesome, esp. if light rail is incorporated into the plan.

[Norva757]

On 5/27/2021 at 10:52 AM, vdogg said:

Here's an older rendering of the military circle redevelopment plan. Just a reminder that the city plans some pretty intensive uses for that area. I like an arena, but I also like to make sure we have this type of development there as well.

 

I doubt we will see anything like that

[vdogg]

8 hours ago, Norva757 said:

I doubt we will see anything like that

If the plan is to shift most future development to the Military Circle area, something like this is definitely a possibility.

[BFG]

We should be getting close to an announcement about Military Circle. I believe they said this month. Anyone got any updates?

[Arctic_Tern]

No but I have noticed they've been silent on the East expansion of the Tide for a long time. I thought it was to try and bide their time until they could lobby for money as a part of the infrastructure bill, but seeing how it would be an integral part of the Military Circle project that might have something to do with it as well.

[Norva757]

On 7/20/2021 at 3:29 PM, Arctic_Tern said:

No but I have noticed they've been silent on the East expansion of the Tide for a long time. I thought it was to try and bide their time until they could lobby for money as a part of the infrastructure bill, but seeing how it would be an integral part of the Military Circle project that might have something to do with it as well.

Last study they did came up with most of Norfolk is a flood zone and nothing has been even looked at after that....elevated would cost exponential more

[Arctic_Tern]

21 minutes ago, Norva757 said:

Last study they did came up with most of Norfolk is a flood zone and nothing has been even looked at after that....elevated would cost exponential more

That was for the west side study that goes through Ghent and ODU. The route that would tagalong I-64 and hit the airport and military circle on the way to the Navy Base is the highest land in Norfolk and has been targeted as a priority area for the city. I've talked with current Norfolk City Council members about it before and I have a high confidence of rail being added along that corridor.

[vdogg]

I imagine that Kenny is being rushed, hurredly, to the podium under full police escort to make this huge announcement about military circle redevelopment...that was supposed to have been made by the end of this month.... .

[BFG]

With names like Pharrell and Emmitt Smith attached to this, I’m really hoping this doesn’t become another in the long line of major Hampton Roads projects that quietly fade away or don’t take off for another 20 years. 

[BFG]

If I'm reading correctly, council doesn't meet again until the 24th. I forgot they take a break this time of year. Really hope they have a Military Circle presentation ready to go when they come back.

[Arctic_Tern]

Oooh I'm gonna have a good evening digging into these. I will say, one of the outcomes I believe the city wants is for this to be a seed of further development to build a new urban core. Crossroads seems nice, but it also seems kinda isolated and I worry it might be difficult to connect it to a more urban footprint in the future. Wellness circle seems like it would flawlessly fit in a larger street grid, but the buildings seem a bit sparse. And the Well, although I do love the park, and feel it would be a great amenity to have, is lacking an arena and it doesn't really seem to have any density whatsoever. 

 

But these are just my first impressions. Time to get deep into these proposals

[BFG]

The venue on the Wellness Center proposal looks like a giant Reese’s Cup. It’s very unique. Right now I think I’m leaning towards the Crossroads project. 

I see no reason to build another amphitheater when you can go to the one in Portsmouth just 10 minutes away. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by BFG

[Arctic_Tern]

The more I look through these the more I like the Wellness Circle. Crossroads is nice but seems pretty generic and isolated. I dunno, there's something about that one that makes me feel like it'd be hostile to future nearby developments. And the light rail integration is pretty bad imo.

Wish there was a bit more height on the buildings in Wellness Circle, and fewer surface lots, but those aren't dealbreakers for me. I find the addition of townhomes on the eastern side to be really interesting. I really like having the park in the center, and I LOVE the architecture of the proposed stadium. Now I know these are renders and we've been bitten bad by that before (stares at the casino project), but if we could get that stadium that would look amazing.

[lammius]

I wish there was more population growth in the region to support a really bold proposal. 

[BFG]

I might need to look at it from my computer but I did like some of the buildings from Crossroads. Would be nice if that attracted some high-paying tech jobs. 

One thing I liked from the amphitheater proposal was this district, although I think that should probably go somewhere like the Neon or SPQ area. 

[BFG]

I also noticed that the 4th group, Norfolk Next, didn't propose anything. They were the ones behind the Virginia Beach arena a few years ago.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-military-circle-redevelopment-rfq-companies-20210105-3fr2mltszngehdm5joejjsfsnm-story.html

Quote

• The Crossroads Partnership’s 10 companies include Virginia Beach-based construction company SB Ballard; NFL Hall of Famer Emmitt Smith’s real estate company; and ASM Global, a venue management company that oversees dozens of arenas, including the Barclays Center where the Brooklyn Nets play.
• Norfolk MC Associates includes Bruce Thompson’s Gold Key and the Franklin Johnston Group, two major local developers.
• Wellness Circle LLC includes more than a dozen companies and investors, including rapper and Virginia Beach native Pharrell Williams; Virginia Beach developers Armada Hoffler and Venture Realty; major concert promoter Live Nation; and Oak View Group, which manages major arenas, stadiums and convention centers across the United States.
• Norfolk Next includes 14 groups, including Arlington-based developer Bonaventure Realty; architects specializing in design of sport and entertainment facilities; and The Garcia Companies, which was behind the unsuccessful Virginia Beach arena bid.

 

[urbanlife]

I think the Wellness Center was the best option, it seemed to be the only one pushing the architecture level and pointed out it could have light rail running through it. I also think this one has the best masterplan and would be the best one to build off of to help transform Military Circle into a major urban district for the city.

[BFG]

Looking at the proposals again, I do prefer the architecture on Wellness Circle. I love both arenas, but Pharrell’s Reese’s cup is really growing on me. 

I’m okay with the lack of density because of the location. If this were proposed for SPQ as an extension of downtown, I’d be pissed. 

[Norf Native]

I prefer the Wellness concept also, however I think the arena should seat 18,000.  We don’t need another too small arena.  People warned decades ago that Scope did not have enough seating but it was built anyway. 

[baobabs727]

Very first impressions:

Rather underwhelming, but perhaps I completely misunderstood what Norfolk was asking for.

Suburban. Squatty. Pedestrian designs.

They’re all nice Sentara campuses lol. 

CrossRoads appears to be the most serious, well thought-out plan. Also the second most expensive at over $900 million.  I prefer the architecture of their arena—by far.  

Wellness Circle is the most esoteric of the three...and the least detailed. I do not like the “peanut butter cup” whatsoever.  $1.1 bn in total investment is an impressive figure, however.

The Well is presented nicely in terms of their proposal, and I love the idea of all of that green space and water, but without an arena I don’t think it stands a chance. I am always looking for the hidden or unspoken messages, and so I’m wondering if they determined that an arena would not be feasible here.  

And that brings me to Andrea Kilmer, of the failed VB Arena Team. Wow:  a last minute letdown once again?  This time via no-show. Hmmm. Maybe they were not willing to risk a second strike-out in terms of financing. And if so,  what does that say, if anything, about the viability and eventuality of an arena at this location—from anyone? 

UPDATE:  I am hearing from a reliable source that Kilmer’s team was eliminated, while someone else told me that they withdrew. Interesting.

Edited August 8, 2021 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

I want the Crossroads arena design in the wellness circle development

[mistermetaj]

I like all the proposals. Greatly prefer the addition of full sized stadium, no matter which one is chosen.

The Wellness proposal is perfect for St Paul's Quadrant, and it's an absolute shame it's not planned there. Besides adding an arena, which would be near the casino, ball park, lightrail, and Amtrak, it also adds a strong community component around housing and education with YELLOW. There is no area that needs that more than St Pauls and no area riper for this kind of development.

[BFG]

2 hours ago, mistermetaj said:

The Wellness proposal is perfect for St Paul's Quadrant, and it's an absolute shame it's not planned there. Besides adding an arena, which would be near the casino, ball park, lightrail, and Amtrak, it also adds a strong community component around housing and education with YELLOW. There is no area that needs that more than St Pauls and no area riper for this kind of development.

I've said for YEARS that an arena should be part of SPQ. Downtown sporting venues are the big trend nowadays, and it would've been closer to light rail, either from the Harbor Park, City Hall, or one of the MacArthur stops. Plus plenty of parking garages. I have no idea why Scope's replacement wasn't planned for somewhere in that neighborhood.

[urbanlife]

9 hours ago, BFG said:

I've said for YEARS that an arena should be part of SPQ. Downtown sporting venues are the big trend nowadays, and it would've been closer to light rail, either from the Harbor Park, City Hall, or one of the MacArthur stops. Plus plenty of parking garages. I have no idea why Scope's replacement wasn't planned for somewhere in that neighborhood.

But that would have also been a PR nightmare.  Guess what everyone, we are kicking out all this low income housing for a new stadium and entertainment district! That will be fun! Yeah, that would have been a tough one to deal with. Though I do agree that an arena would make more sense being in close proximity to downtown. With Military Circle, I think it will be more like how the Hampton Coliseum functions in its surroundings.