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Military Circle Redevelopment


vdogg

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20 hours ago, urbanlife said:

It may be questionable if the population has shrunk, but it definitely didn't see any rapid growth that other cities has seen. Something Norfolk should have been enjoying during this last boom when people were looking for more affordable urban options.

Over a ten year span it may not have seen any significant growth, as it would have been balanced by the first half's loss, but that does not mean there is not now rapid growth.  Unfortunately, that is one problem with decade long datasets is that it fails to accurately capture trends if they occur within the middle of the census timespan.  We may now be in Norfolk's decade, but it will take another ten years to really see the results, sadly, impacting decisions made over the next decade.

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On 8/17/2021 at 1:06 PM, Icetera said:

Over a ten year span it may not have seen any significant growth, as it would have been balanced by the first half's loss, but that does not mean there is not now rapid growth.  Unfortunately, that is one problem with decade long datasets is that it fails to accurately capture trends if they occur within the middle of the census timespan.  We may now be in Norfolk's decade, but it will take another ten years to really see the results, sadly, impacting decisions made over the next decade.

Really?  ARE we though? 

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2 hours ago, BeagleAccountant said:

Norfolk’s department of development just released this survey regarding the project and the three different proposals.  Here’s our first chance to let them know what we think;

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K67QMNN

Sure took them a while to include the arena in this terribly flawed survey,  but anyway, I completed it. When the survey creators only give you a chance to include your top three priorities and in so providing you have to leave out certain laudable goals (an action which absent situational context in today’s world makes you look like an evil reprobate), I must say sorry, not sorry, for I am way too principled not to answer honestly:   Tax revenues, jobs & public transit.  

Edited by baobabs727
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3 hours ago, EJ_LEWIS said:

Military Circle Redevelopment status meeting with potential developers delayed due to COVID.  This will delay the project as well.  

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/military-circle-redevelopment-status-update-meeting-delayed-because-of-covid/

Does Zoom not exist anymore? No reason to cancel this.

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6 hours ago, vdogg said:

Does Zoom not exist anymore? No reason to cancel this.

No, Zoom is not appropriate for this meeting.  Zoom is great for penny-ante meetings like weekly status reports at work.  Zoom barely works for City Council meetings.  When you are trying to sell someone on a development plan worth half a billion to a billion dollars ($1,000,000,000), you want to be there live.  You want to be able to look them in the eye and read their body language while you are making your presentation.   You want to go to lunch with them before the presentation and have a few drinks after. Zoom doesn't work for that.  Zoom would merely be a rehashing of the PDF proposals that have been posted on this forum.

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  • 3 weeks later...

A friend linked me to last month's Planning Commission meeting. According to Chip Filer, they plan to hold this meeting in the middle of this month, barring another outbreak.

From the article vdogg posted in the VB forum:
https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/the-visionary/?oly_enc_id=8808E7437578H0S
 

Quote

VB: You’re also part of a team proposing the Wellness Circle, a $1.1 billion redevelopment plan for Norfolk’s Military Circle Mall, which would include a 15,000-seat arena and a 1-mile trail to be called the Wellness Loop. There are several competing redevelopment plans, but can you tell us about why you got involved with it?

Williams: I heard about the opportunity and that the city was looking for a partner or partners to come in and bring a fresh vision to the region. I immediately thought about the problems. I love turning problems into solutions and then, therefore, assets.

[...]

We need some professional teams here. Whether it’s basketball or hockey, which are two things that I’m working on, we need an arena. Around that arena should be a hotel, [and] there should be food and beverage. There should also be retail. There should also be an automotive partner, who probably runs on electric — that’s probably the most I can say about that. Then we need single-family, market-rate homes, right?

I do think Pharrell has the resources to make something happen. 

Edited by BFG
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An expansion of the NBA or NHL probably won't happen for Norfolk even if this arena is built. With the NBA, the best bet would be trying to convince the Pelicans to move to Norfolk which would probably be a tough sell for them. With the NHL, there are potentially a few teams that might be interested in moving, but again any NHL team would have plenty of places to choose from. Either league would be an uphill battle. There might be a chance for MLS if and when they expand to 32 teams, which would give Norfolk a spot to compete for. 

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2 minutes ago, urbanlife said:

An expansion of the NBA or NHL probably won't happen for Norfolk even if this arena is built. With the NBA, the best bet would be trying to convince the Pelicans to move to Norfolk which would probably be a tough sell for them. With the NHL, there are potentially a few teams that might be interested in moving, but again any NHL team would have plenty of places to choose from. Either league would be an uphill battle. There might be a chance for MLS if and when they expand to 32 teams, which would give Norfolk a spot to compete for. 

That would kinda bring things full circle. The original Charlotte Hornets looked at Hampton Roads but couldn't wait 2-3 years for construction. New Orleans had a new arena ready to go, and the rest is history.

That said...that was almost 20 years ago. Hampton Roads should've built an arena well before all that even happened. 

MLS would be a nice option, although I think there's only a handful of potential chances left to round out to 32. Either fix up the Sportsplex or see if ODU is open to sharing with a team for a couple years.

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1 minute ago, BFG said:

That would kinda bring things full circle. The original Charlotte Hornets looked at Hampton Roads but couldn't wait 2-3 years for construction. New Orleans had a new arena ready to go, and the rest is history.

That said...that was almost 20 years ago. Hampton Roads should've built an arena well before all that even happened. 

MLS would be a nice option, although I think there's only a handful of potential chances left to round out to 32. Either fix up the Sportsplex or see if ODU is open to sharing with a team for a couple years.

That would be hilarious if Norfolk ended up with the Pelicans after all these years. The window is definitely closing fast on picking up any team wanting to move or any expansions. 

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3 hours ago, BFG said:

That would kinda bring things full circle. The original Charlotte Hornets looked at Hampton Roads but couldn't wait 2-3 years for construction. New Orleans had a new arena ready to go, and the rest is history.

That said...that was almost 20 years ago. Hampton Roads should've built an arena well before all that even happened. 

MLS would be a nice option, although I think there's only a handful of potential chances left to round out to 32. Either fix up the Sportsplex or see if ODU is open to sharing with a team for a couple years.

The ODU soccer pitch is nowhere near enough for an MLS team, and I'm pretty sure the football field was made with only american football in mind, I don't think there's enough space to fit a soccer field. 

Honestly, something that has been rumbling around in the back of my head for a while is that the City should work with Norfolk State to upgrade William Dick Price Stadium to make it suitable for a MLS/NWSL/USL/USFL team. The stadium is near downtown, is close to a Tide stop, there is plenty of space there to build a modern facility and you get to help upgrade the local HBCU in the City. You'd have to work with NSU to make sure that all their needs are filled but I think it would be a win/win/win for everyone involved. ODU might be a bit miffed tho that the City helped NSU build a new stadium right after they built one but w/e

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Dick Price Stadium is a gorgeous venue. Holds up very well to be 25 years old. Only drawback I could think of is the track surrounding the field, which pushes the fans away from the action a little. 

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Why is everything from Thursday on in this thread? This is the Military Circle thread.... This talk should be in the Sports in Norfolk thread. Besides, pro sports in Hampton Roads sailed long ago. It'll never happen here. Arena or no arena.

 

Edit - I'm aware that the talk here is a potential new arena in the military circle area, but this current round of talk just seemed like it was just about expansion/ relocation of teams, not building of a new arena.

Edited by zeppelin14
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  • 2 weeks later...
12 hours ago, BFG said:

So are they making a decision tomorrow too? I noticed "contract negotiation".

2 of the 3 companies that issued proposals are listed on the agenda with contract negotiations listed right after that agenda item. I believe they are negotiating the contract with each of the three options and then using the potential contract of each to make a final decision. I'm not sure why Pharell's group proposal isn't listed, perhaps time is an issue and they'll have to hold another meeting for that proposal. 

Edited by BeagleAccountant
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Knowing this region needs an arena and seeing Virginia Beach's plan fall flat a few years ago, I can't see Norfolk going with a giant park and amphitheater. The amphitheaters in Portsmouth and VB are a short drive away so it makes even less sense to add a third one halfway between the two. The mayor himself even said he wants an arena, so I'd be shocked (and possibly livid) if they don't go with Pharrell or Emmitt.

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57 minutes ago, BFG said:

Knowing this region needs an arena and seeing Virginia Beach's plan fall flat a few years ago, I can't see Norfolk going with a giant park and amphitheater. The amphitheaters in Portsmouth and VB are a short drive away so it makes even less sense to add a third one halfway between the two. The mayor himself even said he wants an arena, so I'd be shocked (and possibly livid) if they don't go with Pharrell or Emmitt.

It's literally the most underwhelming of all the proposals, so it stands a decent chance of making it. :lol:

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to sum, Emmitt Smith, Steve Ballard, Live Nation proposed a relatively dense and expansive development with an arena next to an indoor sports facility, a School of Public Health, a hotel for sports tourism, housing, office space, with a pretty substantial mixed use development across the street on the Dump site connected by a pedestrian bridge across Military. Most of the talk was about the group’s connections to entertainment, and potential for the highest level of sports (Acc tournament, final 4, nba/nhl). Then, Bruce Thompson came along and spoiled the parade with a proposed ‘central park’ with affordable housing and an amphitheater, focusing mostly on how it’s not feasible for the city to build an arena, and how the city can’t afford it without a buy-in from VB and Chesapeake, whom ‘would benefit from the arena ‘but won’t help with $$, and how arenas are destined to fail without a major tenant and overwhelming public support. Thompson focused on practicality and the limited public investment. Pretty much a let’s be serious, this is still just Norfolk vibe versus let’s dream big and bold and the sky is the limit vibe from the first presentation. Will be interesting to see Pharell’s teams take on Saturday.

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 Most of the talk was about the group’s connections to entertainment, and potential for the highest level of sports (Acc tournament, final 4, nba/nhl). 

Norfolk would never get an ACC tournament. Those are for Greensboro/Charlotte/Atlanta/DC/New York City. Norfolk could maybe get the Sun Belt tournament. NCAA tournament early rounds, maybe. Final 4, no way. NBA D league (if that still exists), AHL/ECHL, possibly. Concerts, conferences, trade shows, monster trucks, sure.

Then, Bruce Thompson came along and spoiled the parade with a proposed ‘central park’ with affordable housing and an amphitheater

I don't think the metro needs a third amphitheater and I hope city officials realize that.

 focusing mostly on how it’s not feasible for the city to build an arena, and how the city can’t afford it

I think the developer should be on the hook for the cost of the arena. The city should pay for infrastructure improvements (including mass transit/light rail access). I do not believe the city could pay for both an arena and light-rail/mass transit. Therefore, let the developer focus on the arena and the city focus on transportation.

a School of Public Health

Does this have an operator/partner or is it just a wish?

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