Queensbridge Collective - 1 tower, maybe 2

[KJHburg]

as discussed on this thread before here is where the diner is heading to over by Spectrum arena

""The Midnight Diner looks to be heading uptown after being displaced by development.  The popular diner and its owner, Brian Dominick, are named on a city filing tied to 420 E. Trade St. That 0.86-acre parcel is near Spectrum Center and owned by Weddington Properties LLC.  The project is named Midnight Diner. A description calls for construction of a modular building for a restaurant diner.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/01/14/filing-midnight-diner-snags-uptown-spot.html

[InTheYear2000]

7 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

as discussed on this thread before here is where the diner is heading to over by Spectrum arena

""The Midnight Diner looks to be heading uptown after being displaced by development.  The popular diner and its owner, Brian Dominick, are named on a city filing tied to 420 E. Trade St. That 0.86-acre parcel is near Spectrum Center and owned by Weddington Properties LLC.  The project is named Midnight Diner. A description calls for construction of a modular building for a restaurant diner.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/01/14/filing-midnight-diner-snags-uptown-spot.html

Midnight Diner with the 420 address.. perfect.

[DMann]

Holy Elon Musk, Batman!!!

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Why does that guy have a confused emoji on the 420 joke lol?

Anyways, hopefully the diner won’t be affected by future development of CTC and the surrounding lots. Those are such prime lots that are being held back by CTC. 

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Why does that guy have a confused emoji on the 420 joke lol?

Anyways, hopefully the diner won’t be affected by future development of CTC and the surrounding lots. Those are such prime lots that are being held back by CTC. 

If you're a developer considering the lots near Spectrum Center and along Brevard for a project, and then you learn that the city/CATS is just now beginning a long process to demolish, dig up, and then bury the CTC in that area, doesn't that give you pause?

Yes, these massive projects are transformational, but I think they become a factor in stalling surrounding improvements for a very long time because such improvements fear all the disruption that will be caused by that government infrastructure transformation.  

You hear Silver Line might run along Wilkinson, few if any private development interests give a second look at much of Wilkinson because of the uncertainty and ensuing disruption.  Even the rumor mill of these so-called improvements basically stall visible improvements for potentially many years.

If we were to dig out tunnels in Uptown to run the Silver Line into the center of Uptown Charlotte, and the Line isn't expected to be open until the late 2030s at the earliest, shouldn't we reasonably expect little to nothing to change in large swaths of Uptown for a generation?  Is a buried Silver Line worth that to us?

Edited January 15, 2022 by RANYC

[15895]

32 minutes ago, RANYC said:

If you're a developer considering the lots near Spectrum Center and along Brevard for a project, and then you learn that the city/CATS is just now beginning a long process to demolish, dig up, and then bury the CTC in that area, doesn't that give you pause?

Yes, these massive projects are transformational, but I think they become a factor in stalling surrounding improvements for a very long time because such improvements fear all the disruption that will be caused by that government infrastructure transformation.  

You hear Silver Line might run along Wilkinson, few if any private development interests give a second look at much of Wilkinson because of the uncertainty and ensuing disruption.  Even the rumor mill of these so-called improvements basically stall visible improvements for potentially many years.

If we were to dig out tunnels in Uptown to run the Silver Line into the center of Uptown Charlotte, and the Line isn't expected to be open until the late 2030s at the earliest, shouldn't we reasonably expect little to nothing to change in large swaths of Uptown for a generation?  Is a buried Silver Line worth that to us?

Doing it right is worth it. Yes. And it will have the most positive transformation for the Charlotte region. 
 

of course, it’s for future generations but it’s the best thing to do for the city. So that’s no fun for the people of today footing the bill and doing the work. Maybe politicians could fight harder for funding. There is money to build it faster. It’s political and civic will that’s the hold up. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[Desert Power]

53 minutes ago, RANYC said:

If you're a developer considering the lots near Spectrum Center and along Brevard for a project, and then you learn that the city/CATS is just now beginning a long process to demolish, dig up, and then bury the CTC in that area, doesn't that give you pause?

Shouldn't this be offset by how attractive the street car is for development?

[Reverie39]

I hadn't heard of these CTC plans before. Are there serious talks of moving it underground? Will the Blue Line also run underground in its vicinity?

[JRCLT]

I hadn't heard of these CTC plans before. Are there serious talks of moving it underground? Will the Blue Line also run underground in its vicinity?

No… but it is interesting to think about how they are going to connect them!

[RANYC]

7 hours ago, JeanClt said:

No… but it is interesting to think about how they are going to connect them!

To clarify, I believe his "No" refers to the Blue Line question.

The answer is "Yes" to moving the CTC underground.

[TCLT]

To clarify, I believe his "No" refers to the Blue Line question.
The answer is "Yes" to moving the CTC underground.

Isn’t “underground” a bit misleading, or at least overselling it? Bus and passenger access is still at grade on Trade/4th Streets but some bus bays and passenger amenities may be sub-grade with development parking and building above it.

[RANYC]

26 minutes ago, TCLT said:

Isn’t “underground” a bit misleading, or at least overselling it? Bus and passenger access is still at grade on Trade/4th Streets but some bus bays and passenger amenities may be sub-grade with development parking and building above it.

On November 17th, Someone asked @TheRealClayton if DOT grant funding would go toward putting the CTC “underground in the current location” and he said “yes.”  I’m parroting that exchange here, not looking to mislead anyone.  I haven’t seen any site plans or engineering designs, but you seem to have a precise view on the plans.

[TCLT]

On November 17th, Someone asked@TheRealClayton if DOT grant funding would go toward putting the CTC “underground in the current location” and he said “yes.”  I’m parroting that exchange here, not looking to mislead anyone.  I haven’t seen any site plans or engineering designs, but you seem to have a precise view on the plans.

No precise view, just my memory of what’s been talked about and shown so far. Not accusing you of intentionally misleading. To me me it feels like calling ramping down a level or two from the street to the bus bays “putting the transit center underground” is overselling what’s gonna happen but maybe that’s just me.

[kermit]

Charlotte received a $15 million grant in November to “create a new transit center” according to tommy tills who rushed to take credit for the grant on his twitter account. The city issued an RFP for mixed use redevelopment on the site in 2019 and selected White Point Partners as the lead developer. The city /CATS are responsible for rebuilding the transit center on the site as part of the PPP with White Point. The soonest the grant money will be available is 2024 (but must be spent by 2029), the grant was also for $10 million less than what CATS had requested. While moving the transit center underground on the site has been discussed, design work (with White Point) has not yet been done, so the city (at this point) can only speculate on the configuration of the new transit center. There may be some sketches, but I doubt there is much more than that.

I am guessing that part of the ‘depth’ decision will depend on the amount of rock beneath the site. I would bet its a giant wad of granite, so excavation is gonna be $$$. Excavation costs will probably be OK for transit alone, but if White Point wants any underground parking, costs are gonna go up quickly, and since the federal grant came up short depth may be something that gets cut.

Quote

The scope and cost of the private and public developments have not been determined, Dodson said. Whatever is built on the site will include a transportation center, she added.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/11/22/charlotte-targeting-transit-hub-makeover.html

Edited January 16, 2022 by kermit

[DMann]

These are the Whitestone-Dart renderings I could find

[Reverie39]

1 minute ago, DMann said:

These are the Whitestone-Dart renderings I could find

Wow, so it will be paired with a high-rise potentially. That’s cool. Shouldn’t this CTC thing have its own thread? Seems like a big deal, and threads existing are how I usually keep track of what projects are going on lol. Or maybe it does have one.

[turbocraig]

17 minutes ago, Reverie39 said:

Wow, so it will be paired with a high-rise potentially. That’s cool. Shouldn’t this CTC thing have its own thread? Seems like a big deal, and threads existing are how I usually keep track of what projects are going on lol. Or maybe it does have one.

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/119359-ctc-redevelopment-crescent-bpr-whitepoint-proposals-for-transit-center-redo-more/page/6/#comments

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by turbocraig

[RANYC]

2 hours ago, DMann said:

These are the Whitestone-Dart renderings I could find

Frankly, I'd be thrilled just to see this area wind up as mid-rise condos and brownstones with ground-level corner-store retail, a decent proportion of them workforce-affordable, and all of it oriented around tree-scaped, hard-surfaced, savannah-style public squares. 

The idea of "sub-grading" the bus station is cool too.

But we shouldn't abide that gaping hole in Uptown with a sea of surface parking for the next 20 years, because everyone is stuck on the idea that its only use is a high-rise.

Although the high-rise rendering looks compelling, White Point planned for office space in 2019 and I just can't fathom any demand for such an office building and in that location any time soon.  I'd like to see these surface lots in the center of Uptown filled in and vibrant before I need a cane to get around.  It would appear most uptown developers appear to be locked into this feedback loop of only believing a big box project is worthy of construction on uptown plots.  I think that's unfortunate and stalls a march toward vibrancy.

Is there some way to incentivize 1 and 2-story building construction on the perimeter of uptown's vacant surface lots with small-scale uses like retail (incubator) and restaurants and entertainment, and then later on those blocks can get up-sized to mid-or-high-rises if the need exists. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by RANYC

[Reverie39]

30 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Frankly, I'd be thrilled just to see this area wind up as mid-rise condos and brownstones with ground-level corner-store retail, a decent proportion of them workforce-affordable, and all of it oriented around tree-scaped, hard-surfaced, savannah-style public squares. 

The idea of "sub-grading" the bus station is cool too.

But we shouldn't abide that gaping hole in Uptown with a sea of surface parking for the next 20 years, because everyone is stuck on the idea that its only use is a high-rise.

Although the high-rise rendering looks compelling, White Point planned for office space in 2019 and I just can't fathom any demand for such an office building and in that location any time soon.  I'd like to see these surface lots in the center of Uptown filled in and vibrant before I need a cane to get around.  It would appear most uptown developers appear to be locked into this feedback loop of only believing a big box project is worthy of construction on uptown plots.  I think that's unfortunate and stalls a march toward vibrancy.

Is there some way to incentive 1 and 2-story building construction on the perimeter of uptown's vacant surface lots with small-scale uses like retail (incubator( and restaurants and entertainment, and then later on those blocks can get up-sized to mid-or-high-rises if the need exists. 

I'm with you on the general idea. I think Uptown's surface parking lots are its ugliest feature, they are out of control and seriously affect both the aesthetics and functionality of Uptown spaces (especially 1st and 2nd Ward). So much of Charlotte looks great and heavily developed, but it's hard to claim to be a major city when like a quarter of the "downtown" is just parking lots. 

[JRCLT]

Anything not at grade is underground? So a little confused by TCLT’s statements…regardless of the entrance if it isn’t at the grade it is currently, then it is below grade.

I'm with you on the general idea. I think Uptown's surface parking lots are its ugliest feature, they are out of control and seriously affect both the aesthetics and functionality of Uptown spaces (especially 1st and 2nd Ward). So much of Charlotte looks great and heavily developed, but it's hard to claim to be a major city when like a quarter of the "downtown" is just parking lots. 

A lot of major cities have a lot of parking lots it’s just simply a characteristic of southern cities. Though as they grow they are slowly changing that. Charlotte had more parking lots 20 years ago than it does now.

[RANYC]

21 minutes ago, JeanClt said:

Anything not at grade is underground? So a little confused by TCLT’s statements…regardless of the entrance if it isn’t at the grade it is currently, then it is below grade.

A lot of major cities have a lot of parking lots it’s just simply a characteristic of southern cities. Though as they grow they are slowly changing that. Charlotte had more parking lots 20 years ago than it does now.

That’s a good point.  I sometimes (and perhaps unfairly) judge Charlotte against cities outside the US that I find “walkably livable and comfortably dense,” because most US urban cores don’t exemplify high-quality livability for just regular people who aren’t really interested in being any sort of pioneer or trail-blazer.

[TCLT]

Anything not at grade is underground? So a little confused by TCLT’s statements…regardless of the entrance if it isn’t at the grade it is currently, then it is below grade.

A lot of major cities have a lot of parking lots it’s just simply a characteristic of southern cities. Though as they grow they are slowly changing that. Charlotte had more parking lots 20 years ago than it does now.

A ramp down a level from the street in a parking garage is not what I typically think of when I think of an underground transit station [emoji2371]

My point is that saying the city is moving the transit center underground makes it sound like a much bigger endeavor than what is likely to get done even if where the buses park is technically underground.

[RANYC]

57 minutes ago, TCLT said:

A ramp down a level from the street in a parking garage is not what I typically think of when I think of an underground transit station

My point is that saying the city is moving the transit center underground makes it sound like a much bigger endeavor than what is likely to get done even if where the buses park is technically underground.

I can see your point.  To be honest, when I heard people raving about the CTC going underground, I was struck by the scale and thought such an undertaking would take 10-15 years and scare away any near-term improvements in places like the epicenter and along Brevard.  Hearing that it’s not so profound a change and instead an adjustment in configuration is a bit relieving.

[Miesian Corners]

Soooo about that Riverside Investment site...

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, Miesian Corners said:

Soooo about that Riverside Investment site...

Yea?  Any updates?  It will run 4 years, won’t break ground for like 10 months, so we might see a few more of these digressions.  
 
Midnight Diner’s relocation to the CTC area is just one of the many ripples emanating from these plans.

At some point, we’ll pivot to Cabaret and its demise.

There digressions are mere branches on the massive live oak that is the major riverside development transformation project.

Edited January 16, 2022 by RANYC