100-Block E Main Redevelopment

[roads-scholar]

1 hour ago, Spartanburg Dude said:

100% agreed! Yes, this is an incredible upgrade for Broad Street! 

I'm sold! Even with the "out of scale" new facades, the project is absolutely awesome, desperately needed and hopefully will spur even more development / redevelopment of downtown. I'm kinda in love with this! 

Agree.  I strolled along that stretch of East Main Street yesterday and there's a desolate feel to it.  

[westsider28]

13 hours ago, westsider28 said:

Found the next DRB submission package for this project, and it is very impressive. DRB - 127-163 E Main Street - Spartanburg Master Planning_Concept Design_03-15-22 FINAL.pdf

Some revised details: 10-story tower (127ft tall) flanked by two 8-story towers (106 ft).  21,800 SF ground floor retail facing Main, Broad, and interior corridors.  190 parking spaces in ~3 floor garage (including basement).  Above the retail and garage: restaurant (2,200 SF), residential amenities, and co-working space (17,600 SF).  In the upper floors: 176 residential units (S-16, 1B-72, 2B-88).  Towers (east to west) are named "Rex", "Venus", and "Windsor" after existing buildings on-site (clever).

I love the tower architecture.  Modern flair, but with traditional materials and overall form.  I also like that the 2 outer towers are the same height now (symmetry).  The interior corridors also look great.  Tons of retail space, huge mix of uses.  My only criticism is the out-of-scale new facades on Main.  They seem unnecessary and overwhelm the historic facades.  But the project overall looks amazing.  What do y'all think?  Screenshots:

Quoting myself to get the renderings on the new page.  I'm sure the DRB will bring up the new facades, and it looks like an easy fix to adjust them.  I agree that this does seem like an improvement to Broad as well.  The project as a whole will give a much-needed boost to this block, for sure.

[Spartanburg Dude]

35 minutes ago, westsider28 said:

Quoting myself to get the renderings on the new page.  I'm sure the DRB will bring up the new facades, and it looks like an easy fix to adjust them.  I agree that this does seem like an improvement to Broad as well.  The project as a whole will give a much-needed boost to this block, for sure.

The more I look at them, the more I actually like the "over sized" facades. I realize that they dwarf the historic ones, but at the same time, they make a real statement. 

[westsider28]

5 minutes ago, Spartanburg Dude said:

The more I look at them, the more I actually like the "over sized" facades. I realize that they dwarf the historic ones, but at the same time, they make a real statement. 

I don't mind them being tall, it's the awkward scaling.  The western one (Windsor) should be made to look like 3-stories if it's that tall, not a blown up 2-stories next to a normal 2-story facade.  And the center one (Venus) is nothing but metal framing with fake moss/vines.  They also scream "product of their time" and will go out-of-fashion quickly, and then just look goofy.  IMO, make them look like "real" facades and scale down the signage, and I'm fine with the design concept otherwise.

[djh1963]

I'm liking how the windsor facade will be matching the one at 109 main st , it maintains a sense of continuity.

[Spartan]

Thanks for sharing this.

My gut reaction is mixed and probably more negative than not. The fact that we're seeing this kind of investment is very exciting, and I love that aspect of it. But I have never been a big fan of modern/contemporary looks; I don't think they age well and you often end up with a design that feels awkward and detracts from the built environment.

The large facades here look cartoonish and are not to scale with the adjacent facades. It looks like something you'd see in a zany theme park in Orlando or in a 1990s shopping mall, not in a downtown setting.

I'm not a fan of the tower architecture at all. It looks uninspired and out of character for the one contiguous historic block we have in town. The buildings themselves look remind me of some of the mid-century modern buildings in Columbia. 

On the positive side, I love the activation on Broad Street. Big fan of that. I also like to density numbers and the immediate injection of life into that block of Main Street.

The other VERY positive intangible aspect of this is that it speaks to the momentum in Spartanburg these days. No other city in South Carolina is getting development like this outside of Greenville, Cola, and Charleston. This is certainly next level for us and if it's successful it changes the conversation. If not then, well, we've lost half of our historic building stock, our only contiguous historic block, and any semblance of character east of Church Street.

[Spartanburg Dude]

14 hours ago, djh1963 said:

I'm liking how the windsor facade will be matching the one at 109 main st , it maintains a sense of continuity.

Agreed!

[GvilleSC]

I've been contemplating this proposal and wanted to circle back to share my thoughts. The oversized entries look like they'd be the storefront of (insert high end designer name here). I'm sure (or hope) the DRB will have appropriate comments to revise those. I think they can scale them down and achieve attention through detail, material, and lighting without detracting from the existing facades. I like the contemporary approach to the towers. They are distinct from the historic facades in a way that will explain the development history of the block, and I respect that. This is definitely a net gain for Spartanburg, and I'm excited about it! 

Edited March 18, 2022 by GvilleSC

[NotNotSanti]

Is there a completion date goal in mind for the project? 

[westsider28]

2 hours ago, Santi said:

Is there a completion date goal in mind for the project? 

I don't think anyone knows yet.  There are so many moving pieces with a likely development agreement, DRB approval, needing to carefully demo and preserve facades, working within a tight site, etc.  The only thing we know is a likely Spring 2023 start, according to what @roads-scholarheard.  I suspect a project this complex would take a good 2 years to complete.  So probably 2025 completion.

[NotNotSanti]

Makes sense. Thanks!

 

[westsider28]

Here's an updated submission of the project (Agenda - DRB - 127-163 E Main Street - Spartanburg Mixed Use_Concept Design DRB Submittal_03-29-22 FINAL.pdf).  The City's consultant definitely pushed back on the oversized design elements we were talking about, because they've been scaled back a bit.  They're certainly better, but I think they could still use more refinement.  I'm also a bit concerned that the pathways that connect Main & Broad all seem to have stairs, which is not accessible to those in wheelchairs.  Here's the Zoom sign-up link to register for the DRB meeting if you'd like to watch or comment tomorrow (4/5) at 5:30 PM.

[roads-scholar]

[westsider28]

This project will be seeking preliminary/conceptual approval (for real this time?) at the May 3 DRB meeting (5:30 pm in-person at City Hall).  Here's the submittal document: DRB - 127-163 E Main Street - FINAL - Spartanburg Master Planning_Concept Design_04.26.22.pdf  The "gateway" elements have been scaled-down and refined (I'm okay with them now).  The two on the ends also have indoor space behind them, even on the 2nd floor (so they're real building faces, not just facades). 

The City's consultant is somewhat concerned about whether cross-block foot traffic will be sufficient to support the interior retail, particularly because Broad will have 2 garage entrances which deters walking along there.  My issues are: I still don't see corridor accessibility (ex. ramps) on the Broad side. And why sliding garage doors rather than roll-up?  Seems like sliding garage doors are dangerous, as someone leaning on the wall could get hit or pinched as it opens.  Still need to address those details, IMO.  Screenshots:

Edited April 26, 2022 by westsider28

[roads-scholar]

[Spartan]

Does this project have a real name yet?

I'm still not in love with the architecture at all, but after looking at the architect's website I'm more confident in a well done project. I'm somewhat skeptical about all the internal retail, but I suppose in the long run it could work out, especially if it can help create more activity on Broad Street.

[NotNotSanti]

The need for balconies was emphasized tonight. I’m pretty sure the M Peter’s group clarified they would have them. 

[westsider28]

The project received preliminary approval at last night's DRB meeting, but there were some thoughtful public comments critiquing the towers for being a bit sterile, monolithic and overbearing, partially due to them all being the same, grey color. 

I'm sympathetic to that, as I've mentioned my issues with the abundance of grey buildings on this forum before.  Grey seems to be a big trend in general at the moment, and it reminds me a bit too much of the white/grey-washing of the 60s-70s. 

I wouldn't mind them warming the towers up (as someone suggested).  I think making the outside 2 towers a burnt-orange or brick-red tone, while leaving the center grey (or vice-versa), would be a potential improvement that would address public concerns.  Maybe something like these (color-wise):

     

The developer mentioned that final design completion could be up to a year away, but I hope they come back before the DRB/public along the way to continue to get feedback.

Edited May 4, 2022 by westsider28
added news link

[NotNotSanti]

Did I hear them correctly in saying that there would be balconies added as well? That room is super hard to hear! May need to start feeding into the live feed's audio during my in-person attendance of the same event.

[westsider28]

2 hours ago, Santi said:

Did I hear them correctly in saying that there would be balconies added as well? That room is super hard to hear! May need to start feeding into the live feed's audio during my in-person attendance of the same event.

Yes, there will be lots of balconies. You can see them in the renderings.

Edited May 4, 2022 by westsider28
added a rendering

[Spartan]

On 5/4/2022 at 1:04 PM, westsider28 said:

The project received preliminary approval at last night's DRB meeting, but there were some thoughtful public comments critiquing the towers for being a bit sterile, monolithic and overbearing, partially due to them all being the same, grey color. 

I'm sympathetic to that, as I've mentioned my issues with the abundance of grey buildings on this forum before.  Grey seems to be a big trend in general at the moment, and it reminds me a bit too much of the white/grey-washing of the 60s-70s. 

I wouldn't mind them warming the towers up (as someone suggested).  I think making the outside 2 towers a burnt-orange or brick-red tone, while leaving the center grey (or vice-versa), would be a potential improvement that would address public concerns.  Maybe something like these (color-wise):

     

The developer mentioned that final design completion could be up to a year away, but I hope they come back before the DRB/public along the way to continue to get feedback.

I could get behind this. Or make the whole thing out of cross laminated timber and let it be exposed on the exterior. 

https://www.firstpost.com/world/touchwood-all-you-need-to-know-about-worlds-tallest-timber-building-coming-up-in-switzerland-10587181.html

[gman430]

What happened to this project? Seems to be awfully quiet. 

[hub-city]

Not sure, but I thought I read where it would take around a year for the actual engineering plans so hopefully we’ll see some update soon.

[roads-scholar]

Project is still shown on the developers website.  

[Spartan]

TBH I won't be entirely upset if it goes away...