SouthEnd High-Rise Projects

[DonkeyKong]

Should this project be somewhere on that map or is it dead?

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/06/15/stream-realty-durban-group-suffolk-punch-project.html

Edited February 9, 2022 by DonkeyKong

[davidclt]

22 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

Jessee Campbell's from what I understand.

Oh, that's going to be interesting. . .

That's a tiny space for a tall building. South End continues to get more interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

[TheRealClayton]

3 minutes ago, davidclt said:

Oh, that's going to be interesting. . .

That's a tiny space for a tall building. South End continues to get more interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

They own a decent bit of land actually, almost an acre between the fronting building and the rear greenhouse, and you should probably ask yourself, "hmmm, its been 2.5 years since Mr. Ks closed, and the new owner hasn't done a thing with it yet, wonder what's up,"

[davidclt]

Just now, TheRealClayton said:

They own a decent bit of land actually, almost an acre between the fronting building and the rear greenhouse, and you should probably ask yourself, "hmmm, its been 2.5 years since Mr. Ks closed, and the new owner hasn't done a thing with it yet, wonder what's up,"

First, the (bad) good news, it has been less than a year since Mr. K's closed  RIP but the year mark is coming up.

I was waiting for those nice pizza folks from Naples to come open their pizzeria (I crack myself up). I was wondering why more work hadn't happened already because the interior got cleaned out last summer. I didn't realize (but should have checked) that the Mr. K's land and the Greenhouse have the same owners or is one parcel of land.

[turbocraig]

6 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

They own a decent bit of land actually, almost an acre between the fronting building and the rear greenhouse, and you should probably ask yourself, "hmmm, its been 2.5 years since Mr. Ks closed, and the new owner hasn't done a thing with it yet, wonder what's up,"

Nooooo… I had to go back and check.  Mr K’s closed 05Mar21 according to the O article about it. 

[davidclt]

10 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

They own a decent bit of land actually, almost an acre between the fronting building and the rear greenhouse, and you should probably ask yourself, "hmmm, its been 2.5 years since Mr. Ks closed, and the new owner hasn't done a thing with it yet, wonder what's up,"

So it's three parcels. The green parcel is owned by
SBLVD SPARTA LLC and TDK SBLVD LLC

The Campbell's parcels are both owned by (RIP)
JESSE P (REV TRUST) CAMPBELL

[RANYC]

11 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

They own a decent bit of land actually, almost an acre between the fronting building and the rear greenhouse, and you should probably ask yourself, "hmmm, its been 2.5 years since Mr. Ks closed, and the new owner hasn't done a thing with it yet, wonder what's up,"

Yea, I remember reading about those plans and thinking to myself, "seriously?"  That's the highest and best use?  Was also disappointed by the Avenues at Atherton renovation, although probably not a ton one could do there and still accommodate cars in the way that we use them.  If we weren't so car-obsessed, could squeeze in housing on top and shops on bottom in that strip.

[Blue_Devil]

Does that mean Leather and Lace too? 

[Hushpuppy321]

4 hours ago, DonkeyKong said:

Should this project be somewhere on that map or is it dead?

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2021/06/15/stream-realty-durban-group-suffolk-punch-project.html

Others on this platform that seem to be ‘in the know’ have stated that this project could break ground this year (2022) probably later in the year like maybe 3rd or 4th quarter.

[KJHburg]

another interesting note from Clayton's article  (and future thread for this project) is information on Cousins project on West Tremont which seems further along than the property they own across from the Railyard.  And this sounds like 15-20 story buildings.  

""Site work has already started on this site, but no development plan has been announced to date. Public filings point to 325,000 square foot office tower, a 300-unit multifamily building and 18,000 square feet of retail.""

This is one to watch too.  

 

[j-man]

I, like many others do not want Charlotte to really be like Atlanta in too many ways,  as the two cities are always being compared to each other. But  the way Charlotte's skyline is shaping out, it is starting to mimic Atlanta's linear skyline which I don't know of any city to have that prominent of a stretching skyline. Tbh I'm not a fan of it, but I know that it is downtown and midtown meeting to give it that feel along with the restraint of the wide interstate and cluster of roads. And as for Charlotte, of course development is growing around the light rail, but I'm hoping for it to spread evenly from center city on out in a circular shape and not so much a straight line. That's just me. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by j-man

[Reverie39]

15 minutes ago, j-man said:

I, like many others do not want Charlotte to really be like Atlanta in too many ways,  as the two cities are always being compared to each other. But  the way Charlotte's skyline is shaping out, it is starting to mimic Atlanta's linear skyline which I don't know of any city to have that prominent of a stretching skyline. Tbh I'm not a fan of it, but I know that it is downtown and midtown meeting to give it that feel along with the restraint of the wide interstate and cluster of roads. And as for Charlotte, of course development is growing around the light rail, but I'm hoping for it to spread evenly from center city on out in a circular shape and not so much a straight line. That's just me. 

I agree and was going to post something similar. Atlanta's linear shape makes for incredible skyline views from certain angles (though that also means very lackluster views from other angles) - literally dominating the entire horizon. And there are some advantages, like the red/gold line of MARTA can take you basically anywhere you need to go in the urban core since it just follows the elongated shape. But I assume it really reduces walkability and probably contributes to their nightmarish traffic situation. Also, the picture above shows the linear nature of downtown and midtown... but their "uptown" Buckhead, which is itself a massive skyscraper core, is like wayyyy off to the North too. Feels totally separated, I don't like that.

There will come a time when South End is saturated and growth may shift somewhere else. Maybe Plaza Midwood, Midtown, etc. can help grow the urban core out in other directions too. The Gold and eventually Silver lines should hopefully help with that.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Reverie39

[Norm2]

29 minutes ago, j-man said:

I, like many others do not want Charlotte to really be like Atlanta in too many ways,  as the two cities are always being compared to each other. But  the way Charlotte's skyline is shaping out, it is starting to mimic Atlanta's linear skyline which I don't know of any city to have that prominent of a stretching skyline. Tbh I'm not a fan of it, but I know that it is downtown and midtown meeting to give it that feel along with the restraint of the wide interstate and cluster of roads. And as for Charlotte, of course development is growing around the light rail, but I'm hoping for it to spread evenly from center city on out in a circular shape and not so much a straight line. That's just me. 

I am not a fan of linear skylines either. Hopefully our skyline will fill out Easy to West as well at some point. The city will probably need to amend zoning code for the to happen though. South Ends is only getting this boom of tall buildings now because of the revamped zoning code along the Blue Line 

[RANYC]

38 minutes ago, j-man said:

I, like many others do not want Charlotte to really be like Atlanta in too many ways,  as the two cities are always being compared to each other. But  the way Charlotte's skyline is shaping out, it is starting to mimic Atlanta's linear skyline which I don't know of any city to have that prominent of a stretching skyline. Tbh I'm not a fan of it, but I know that it is downtown and midtown meeting to give it that feel along with the restraint of the wide interstate and cluster of roads. And as for Charlotte, of course development is growing around the light rail, but I'm hoping for it to spread evenly from center city on out in a circular shape and not so much a straight line. That's just me. 

Why shouldn't Charlotte grow exactly like Atlanta?  What exactly is Charlotte doing to avoid that fate?

[15895]

SouthEnd development (and Stonewall too) to me makes me feel even more like large landholders aren't good for the urban environment and that perhaps an "entertainment district" with Tepper or some huge boom from Gateway development isn't going to do much in terms of a whole sale change of an area just like 1st Ward, North Tryon village or Brooklyn Village, etc. has been languishing for over a decade or more (even with Government projects such as libraries, parks, colleges)

36 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Why shouldn't Charlotte grow exactly like Atlanta?  What exactly is Charlotte doing to avoid that fate?

I don't think it's so much as not to be exactly like ATL as ATL is fabulous.

But I think the idea would be that an urban core is more vibrant and walkable, etc. when development is concentrated versus expanding out and having a city that's vibrancy and density starts to fall apart a few blocks from the main strip (in other words, a more 3-d urban environment.)

 

The GOOD THING though. SouthEnd is a great neighborhood so, these developments are mostly great and are creating a thriving and great urban environment (at the cost of uptown - Maybe). Some people envisioned uptown being a well rounded, vibrant core of high density development. SouthEnd could've been vibrant without highrise development likely as a warehouse district/low rise entertainment district itself (NoDa has remained vibrant even without much development over the years). Uptown really could've use a shot of a lot of these large developments.

Probably an outdated picture but you can see in This picture, the development probably would’ve done more for the urban fabric in downtown than in this location. As of just now I believe, that parking lot still existed (a development is currently going there now so. No more surface lot) 

Edited February 10, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[j-man]

And also to my point, Charlotte is one of the largest cities inland that does not have any restrictions like large rivers like Austin or Memphis that really bring the urban feel to a major halt. And for that reason I look at cities like Atlanta whose dense developments are so restricted and just hate it so much,  and I don't want Charlotte to be like that. There's nothing worse than skyscrapers being a block over from single family neighborhoods in the way they are like in Atlanta. Even Houston with its weird no-zones (I guess you could call it that) isn't as bad. And I agree with all of the responses. It looks nice from afar but it doesn't make a very vibrant walking experience. Its like I don't want to be leaving work from a large cooperate building like Bank of America, open the doors of the lobby and see you on your porch reading the newspaper. 

[JorgiPorgi]

54 minutes ago, j-man said:

And also to my point, Charlotte is one of the largest cities inland that does not have any restrictions like large rivers like Austin or Memphis that really bring the urban feel to a major halt. And for that reason I look at cities like Atlanta whose dense developments are so restricted and just hate it so much,  and I don't want Charlotte to be like that. There's nothing worse than skyscrapers being a block over from single family neighborhoods in the way they are like in Atlanta. Even Houston with its weird no-zones (I guess you could call it that) isn't as bad. And I agree with all of the responses. It looks nice from afar but it doesn't make a very vibrant walking experience. Its like I don't want to be leaving work from a large cooperate building like Bank of America, open the doors of the lobby and see you on your porch reading the newspaper. 

There is a linear element to Charlotte’s skyline I believe will be unavoidable, due to the developments on the light rail. However there are some differences as well. Southend is already more walkable than Midtown Atl, with no major freeway running parallel to it to restrict it. Development is also shooting down Morehead in a different direction than the north south line setting up. Uptown Charlotte also feels more dense than Midtown,  Downtown, or Buckhead, as Charlotte has built towers right next to each other.  I guess only time will tell, and how the rails will effect the direction of different development. 

[KJHburg]

9 hours ago, JorgiPorgi said:

There is a linear element to Charlotte’s skyline I believe will be unavoidable, due to the developments on the light rail. However there are some differences as well. Southend is already more walkable than Midtown Atl, with no major freeway running parallel to it to restrict it. Development is also shooting down Morehead in a different direction than the north south line setting up. Uptown Charlotte also feels more dense than Midtown,  Downtown, or Buckhead, as Charlotte has built towers right next to each other.  I guess only time will tell, and how the rails will effect the direction of different development. 

I agree.  I have walked around Midtown Atlanta and Downtown and Buckhead, ATL's 3 urban cores.  Midtown has beautiful buildings but at the street level not as impressive.  I don't want Southend to become a Midtown ATL absolutely too many high rises and not enough of what was there before.  The mixture of low rises, mid rises and high rises is what makes Southend special.  I think uptown CLT is better than both Midtown ATL or downtown ATL in vibrancy, street level etc.   Sidewalks seem to be very narrow in places in both Midtown and Downtown.   But many of the buildings are beautiful.   One of my favorite buildings in Midtown in 1180 Peachtree, the Symphony tower, King and Spaulding HQ aka the Applause tower.   I also like the urban format QT in midtown everything but the gas pumps and parking lot. 

[Blue_Devil]

9 hours ago, JorgiPorgi said:

There is a linear element to Charlotte’s skyline I believe will be unavoidable, due to the developments on the light rail. However there are some differences as well. Southend is already more walkable than Midtown Atl, with no major freeway running parallel to it to restrict it. Development is also shooting down Morehead in a different direction than the north south line setting up. Uptown Charlotte also feels more dense than Midtown,  Downtown, or Buckhead, as Charlotte has built towers right next to each other.  I guess only time will tell, and how the rails will effect the direction of different development. 

Jorgi, I agree, Charlotte is growing out to the sides, and eventual (maybe in our lifetimes! ) Uptown will extend all the way to Midtown, Morehead will extend to Midtown, Tepper's entertainment district will exist, Brookhill will be developed, etc. These things will give Charlotte length and depth. 

 

However, there will always be a long line of development along the Blueline which will only get longer down LoSo. We might mook like the Boa who ate the allegator in South Florida....

[go_vertical]

I think a majority of cities in the south mostly miss the mark on active street use and walkability.  Charlotte seems to be making a conscious effort but still has a ways to go in many locations. Atlanta needs work as many have mentioned here. Nashville has some amazing entertainment districts but outside of those leaves a lot to be desired.  But to me one of the worst offenders in the southeast is Miami and this is because of the perception many visitors have to the contrary. 

Now, I'm not talking about South Beach.  That is a completely different beast with plenty of stroll areas and active street fronts.  I'm calling out downtown.  Apart from the odd two or three block stretch on a few random streets where their may be restaurants, clubs, or the occasional shop downtown is a pedestrians nightmare.  Blank wall after garage after mostly dead luxury residential lobby.  It's quite soulless and I think Uptown Charlotte does a much better job.  The only thing it's lacking in comparison to Miami is the sheer size. 

I think once uptown and South End both get a little more meat on their bones so to speak and fill out they will impress visitors when compared to any other downtown in the southeast.  Again, the onlt thing our city would be missing is the established entertainment hot spot; Nashville's honky tonk area, South Beach, Ybor in Tampa, etc. 

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, go_vertical said:

I think a majority of cities in the south mostly miss the mark on active street use and walkability.  Charlotte seems to be making a conscious effort but still has a ways to go in many locations. Atlanta needs work as many have mentioned here. Nashville has some amazing entertainment districts but outside of those leaves a lot to be desired.  But to me one of the worst offenders in the southeast is Miami and this is because of the perception many visitors have to the contrary. 

Now, I'm not talking about South Beach.  That is a completely different beast with plenty of stroll areas and active street fronts.  I'm calling out downtown.  Apart from the odd two or three block stretch on a few random streets where their may be restaurants, clubs, or the occasional shop downtown is a pedestrians nightmare.  Blank wall after garage after mostly dead luxury residential lobby.  It's quite soulless and I think Uptown Charlotte does a much better job.  The only thing it's lacking in comparison to Miami is the sheer size. 

I think once uptown and South End both get a little more meat on their bones so to speak and fill out they will impress visitors when compared to any other downtown in the southeast.  Again, the onlt thing our city would be missing is the established entertainment hot spot; Nashville's honky tonk area, South Beach, Ybor in Tampa, etc. 

This is off track (pardon the pun) a little, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned about Charlotte versus other cities regarding sprawl and downtowns spreading out:  Beltways. Atlanta was one of the first to have one and as soon as it was completed in the 60s, there was a sucking sound.  Charlotte's was just recently (relatively speaking) finished.  Just imagine if we didn't have Ballantyne or some of the junk being developed on our own perimeter.

[go_vertical]

30 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

This is off track (pardon the pun) a little, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned about Charlotte versus other cities regarding sprawl and downtowns spreading out:  Beltways. Atlanta was one of the first to have one and as soon as it was completed in the 60s, there was a sucking sound.  Charlotte's was just recently (relatively speaking) finished.  Just imagine if we didn't have Ballantyne or some of the junk being developed on our own perimeter.

I absolutely agree, but my post wasn't talking about the entire city and made no reference to sprawl so we are talking about two different things here.  Since the last few post up thread were talking about downtowns, midtowns, and urban development and walkability that is what my response was about.... that's it.

So how is my post off track when all I was doing was adding to a conversation that was already happening? Sure, beltways promote and worsen sprawl, but the conversation was about urban vibrancy and neighborhood walkability. There is a conversation to be had about how that and beltway sprawl affect each other but that wasn't going on until your post so I'm not sure how what I said was "off track". 

[kermit]

^ he was saying his post was off track, not yours.

[Windsurfer]

8 minutes ago, kermit said:

^ he was saying his post was off track, not yours.

Exactly

[go_vertical]

Well, my apologies then, but it could have been worded better.