SouthEnd High-Rise Projects

[CLT Development]

1 hour ago, DownEast said:

That's one way to look at it I guess. But, all I see is the Vue plopped right into South End. How many floors is the Arlington for reference?

Arlington is 24 floors and 310 feet, it includes a pretty large mechanical floor on top tho, and its parking deck is only a few floors. 

[Cadi40]

Clayton, your expertise is always appreciated and treasured as it's not found elsewhere in Charlotte. However perhaps your responses can be a little less arrogant and cold shouldered?  You're clearly devoted to Charlotte and it's development but sometimes I find that you may come off as  a tad abrasive. Maybe you were living in Brooklyn for too long 

 

P.S.

This is by no means supposed to be an attack on your character, just some constructive criticism as you grow your social media presence. 

 

[CLT Development]

27 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

Clayton, your expertise is always appreciated and treasured as it's not found elsewhere in Charlotte. However perhaps your responses can be a little less arrogant and cold shouldered?  You're clearly devoted to Charlotte and it's development but sometimes I find that you may come off as  a tad abrasive. Maybe you were living in Brooklyn for too long 

 

P.S.

This is by no means supposed to be an attack on your character, just some constructive criticism as you grow your social media presence. 

 

I understand that was abrasive, and I apologize for that, but I put a lot of thought, research and time into my response only to get "I dunno, that can't be right," with no proof of otherwise from someone with no knowledge of the project. I interacted with every single company building in South End for my recent article, I'm sharing intimate knowledge on the subject matter. I can give an even more detailed response on my methodology if need be.

I also encourage people read Charlotte Stories under a microscope. They share some good news, but never as an exclusive, they just post the content of press releases. But often they tend to embellish things an a pretty epic scale, case in point this "diagram" Its a little annoying as someone who had to explain this diagram when it came out a few months ago to dozens and dozens of followers. It was created to create outrage not tell accurate news.

Edited February 25, 2022 by The Real Clayton

[CLT Development]

And now for me to ramble about building floor heights.

Someone asked me the other day why parking garages factor so heavily in a buildings height, so I wanted to breakdown why different uses have different floor heights.

• Parking decks have lower clearance heights, notice the 7'3" CLEARANCE signs you experience in a lot of parking deck entrances, people just build them short. In the state of North Carolina you can do the clearance as short as 7 feet!  A parking deck is just a few things, concrete, fire suppression and electric conduit, there isn't much to them. So they can easily be on average 10 feet per floor.

• An apartment tower on the other hand is going to have decently high ceilings, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, fire suppression and more, so their floor heights are usually higher. This is around 13-15 feet per floor

• Office towers have even higher floor-heights, because the aforementioned utilities, the challenge of bringing ample sunlight into a space, and the engineering that it takes to construct them with little to no visible structural support (Fun Fact: Ally Charlotte Center has that grid on the outside to make their interior "column free",) Average of 15-18 feet per floor.

• Retail spaces in Charlotte getting taller and taller. Walk into Camden Gallery and look up. I'm not sure why those spaces are 18 feet clearance but that seems to be how they build them in Charlotte. I would guess its because what it takes to ventilate a public restaurant, and extra code for first suppression on spaces with an active kitchen, but I'm not sure.  I'll get back to you on that. These vary but neighoring properties are nearly 20 feet tall.

So in summary beside this tower you have the 180 foot tall Dimensional Fund Advisors and the 90 foot tall 1616 Center, and using those as context clues and using the formulation above for height, I determine the building depicted by Charlotte Stories would be around 500 feet tall, about 44-46 floors in a residential + parking concept.

Edited February 25, 2022 by The Real Clayton

[Madison Parkitect]

10 hours ago, CLT Development said:

• Retail spaces in Charlotte getting taller and taller. Walk into Camden Gallery and look up. I'm not sure why those spaces are 18 feet clearance but that seems to be how they build them in Charlotte. I would guess its because what it takes to ventilate a public restaurant, and extra code for first suppression on spaces with an active kitchen, but I'm not sure.  I'll get back to you on that. These vary but neighoring properties are nearly 20 feet tall.

I wonder if part of it is just that there's leftover height by code and it's cheaper for the builder to use that height for a restaurant space (where it's just steel and the tenant is doing the finishes) vs. added height in the apartment floors (where you're buying longer wood/extra drywall/more paint/etc.) Like if you're laying out your floor levels and you get to the top and you have 2 or 3 more feet allowed by code, might as well put that in the ground floor.

This might not be why, as my experience with apartments is you're usually trying to squeeze in as many floors as possible to get more units, but I think it's a possible reason.

[MarcoPolo]

Madison Parkitect, to answer your follow-up question to CLT Development's wonderful and spot-on discussion of floor heights, the first rule of construction to keep in mind is that a developer never views a height allowance, or cap, as a number to hit.   Within the  allowable building envelope, the floor heights are  determined based on the combination of use, market price point, and building code requirements.  The cost implications for each are known with great precision beforehand.  Therefore, a developer builds what he can sell at the price point he believes the market he seeks can bear.   So, the hypothetical of a few extra feet "left-over" within a building envelope, added to another floor, just to achieve the height allowable, would not occur.  

CLT explained very well how different uses result in different floor heights, ie, parking vs office, or residential, and listed the general rules of thumb for each.  These are both general and accurate because costs can be generalized too.     Within these general rules there are variances based on price point, and use-flexibility, for example.  In luxury residential product, residential floor heights routinely exceed the 13 to 15 foot mark.   Depending on the Class of office space being developed, office floors can range from 13 ft to 18ft.   Ground floor commercial in a mixed use building typically has the most variation.  This is for flexibility purposes.  CLT Development pointed to examples of floor heights approaching 20 feet.   In addition to the reasons he raises as to why this is the case, I'll add another.   The added height also permits re-purposing of the space to add mezzanines if desired.  Back in the day "retail space" use to have wonderful high ceilinged floors.  That changed starting in the 50's and gained steam in the 70's and 80's with the advent of drop ceiling panels to hide new wiring demands,  which reduced elegant building interiors into shoe boxes for people.   This regrettable period in architecture has passed, and the wisdom of providing taller spaces on the ground floor has revived.  Adds value to the project by expanding the tenant pool.    

Post COVID, look for ceiling heights, especially on the ground floor of mixed use buildings, and office floors in all types of buildings to move toward the high-end of the ranges listed and become "standard".   

[KJHburg]

Southend skyline and with the discussion of heights of parking levels vs office levels look at this graphic from the Railyard it explains it well.  Look at the different floors line up in the office building vs parking deck. 

[j-man]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:19 PM, CLT Development said:

 

there is a 180 foot tall building right beside it, but if you want to pretend the vue is getting built in South End go ahead

I think you are responding the the wrong person…the pic that I sent doesn’t show and neither did I say that the Vue is getting built. I know that this building is a little over 30 floors. I know that this pic isn’t that accurate. I’m confused as to why everyone is jumping on me for an old rendering that I just posted knowing it was old and not that specific…I’m trying to find where I said that this is an accurate depiction….I said the taller developments aren’t shown in the pic to compare it to like Lowes for instance. But if you wanted a moment here ya go. 

[CLT Development]

15 hours ago, j-man said:

I think you are responding the the wrong person…the pic that I sent doesn’t show and neither did I say that the Vue is getting built. I know that this building is a little over 30 floors. I know that this pic isn’t that accurate. I’m confused as to why everyone is jumping on me for an old rendering that I just posted knowing it was old and not that specific…I’m trying to find where I said that this is an accurate depiction….I said the taller developments aren’t shown in the pic to compare it to like Lowes for instance. But if you wanted a moment here ya go. 

You used the 5 story apartments, which actually don't exist adjacent around the site, as a comparison to say their drawing was closer to 35, and I explained why you were way off.

Edited February 27, 2022 by CLT Development

[rancenc]

Article from Constructionequipmentguide.com on the various projects announced for SouthEnd.

https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/new-31-story-building-coming-to-charlotte-ncs-south-end-one-of-several-planned/55569

[Blue_Devil]

So the Walgreens actually already closed. Last week.

[KJHburg]

future high rise sites in  the Carson Southend and Queens Collective tower area.  They will need to build really tall to block those 2 projects.  Along Morehead and S Tryon. 

[KJHburg]

future site of high rise hotel which construction on the site has started next the Krispy Kreme HQ and across from Portman's Line.  300 plus rooms which means this is going to be tall.  OmShera is the developer/owner.   @atlrvr do you know how many floors? 

Edited March 22, 2022 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

view of the Southend skyline that is ever changing.

[ClassicColtrane]

apologies if this is the wrong thread. is this site ever going to be developed? this is on tryon right before the railyard. seems like a prime parcel for something cool.

Edited April 15, 2022 by ClassicColtrane

[KJHburg]

^^^ There have been plans discussed I once heard a hotel but that was before covid.  I am sure this valuable corner will develop into something fairly tall. 

[j-man]

On 3/18/2022 at 5:51 PM, KJHburg said:

future high rise sites in  the Carson Southend and Queens Collective tower area.  They will need to build really tall to block those 2 projects.  Along Morehead and S Tryon. 

are there any current plans to redevelop these two lots?

[KJHburg]

Uptown to Southend:   ""I have got my eye on you!  I am still bigger and more important office market than you.  You think you are vibrant on weekends?  Have you seen me on a Panthers home game day or big Hornets game?  Wait till my concert schedule starts....You little......""

 

[rancenc]

From the Charlotte Business Journal.......

 

The office tower development boom in South End — where 10 major mixed-use projects are moving forward — promises to remake more than the suddenly flourishing submarket. It is redefining what is considered Charlotte’s central business district.

South End projects under development include: 110 East, 1301 at Centre South, 2825 South, Carson South End, Queensbridge Collective, The Line, The Quarter South End, The Station at LoSo, Vantage South End’s East Tower and an unnamed project at 1728 South Blvd. 

 

This will add a total of roughly 3.4 million square feet of office space in South End by the time the projects are complete, according to data from CoStar Group. Chuck McShane, CoStar’s director of market analytics for the Carolinas, said about 1.2 million square feet is currently under construction, with the rest in the proposed phase.

Charlotte’s commercial real estate brokers, developers and analysts all believe the sheer volume of incoming, high-end office space is erasing the line dividing uptown and South End — and broadening the appeal of the city to tenants searching for spaces that will help them build the workforce of the future.

“It’s a testament to how attractive (South End) is ... There’s no doubt it’s on a national radar,” said John Ball, Foundry Commercial market leader and head of the office agency team. “It’s one of the most prominent submarkets in the entire Southeast from a development pipeline perspective, from a capital perspective, from the relocation of people living here.”

At of the end of the first quarter, South End had 3.9 million square feet of total Class A office inventory, with 14.6% vacancy, according to data provided to the Charlotte Business Journal by CoStar Group. By comparison, uptown’s vacancy rate is nearly identical at 14.5%, but its total Class A inventory is five times that of South End at about 21 million square feet. 

A recent report from CoStar noted South End was one of two submarkets in the country to double its high-end office space between 2017 and 2021. The other was Chicago’s Fulton Market.

McShane said this has to do with South End’s ability to attract tenants from other Charlotte submarkets. A large portion of tenants moving into South End are coming from uptown, University City and the airport area.

The gap between the current average lease rates per square foot for Class A office space in South End and uptown is steadily growing. In 2017, the gap was negligible, with an average rate per square-foot of $31.81 uptown, compared to $31.85 in South End, according to CoStar data. As of the end of the first quarter of this year, South End is slightly more costly, at $41.14 per square-foot, compared to uptown’s $36.03. The current citywide average cost per square foot is just under $34.

Ball noted that uptown has historically charged tenants for parking, an additional occupancy cost that would be advertised on top of base rental rates. He said it’s likely that newer South End projects, as well as higher-profile projects in other submarkets, will eventually do the same.

Overall, Ball said, such a small difference in lease rates is not really a driving factor in how companies are deciding where to rent space.

“At the moment we are talking about a relatively modest delta in price points between South End and uptown’s newest Class A offerings, and I do not believe that is contributing in a meaningful way to the evaluation process for most tenants,” he said. “Companies considering leasing space in a trophy project in either submarket are probably more concerned with selecting the best building for their respective needs and ability to compete and retain talent.”

VIEW SLIDESHOW
10 photos

So why South End?

Besides the obvious — walkability, proximity to the Lynx Blue Line and density of amenities — Charlotte, and South End in particular, are quickly rising among the country’s top markets to live and work. 

Patrick Gildea, vice chairman for CBRE Capital Markets, said this is especially true for young professionals in their 20s, 30s and early 40s. That makes the submarket attractive to companies battling for talent.

“As one of the top millennial growth markets in the U.S. over the last 10 years, employers are chasing talent,” he said. “We are consistently compared to other top-tier growth cities like Nashville, Austin and Denver.”

Gildea said tenants searching for space are increasingly focused on new construction, with the majority of that happening in South End. “This is not a mass exodus from uptown, but more of a focus on new space. South End will continue to become an extension of the center city, and the lines between uptown and South End will likely blur over time.”

Kenlie Chap, senior research analyst for JLL, recently told CBJ that vacancy rates in uptown won’t rise significantly because most buildings there were renovated starting in 2017 and are still attractive spaces for many current and potential tenants.

Bill Harrison, executive director at Cushman & Wakefield, said South End’s newest projects, both proposed and under construction, continue to grow in scale compared to recent deliveries.

“The new projects are all unique and very appealing but will need to attract larger-scale office tenants than the submarket has historically experienced,” he said. “Charlotte’s growth potential and appeal should offset most of that concern.”

Coming down the pipeline

Five of South End’s 10 major mixed-used projects are set to deliver by the end of 2022. Vantage South End - East Tower and The Line open next month; The Quarter South End’s three buildings should come along in May, July and December; and 2825 South as well as The Station at LoSo - Stations 3 and 4 are expected to deliver in the fourth quarter. 

The Line, at 2151 Hawkins St., is one of the most anticipated projects in the submarket this year. The 16-story, 293,000-square-foot high rise will welcome its first tenant next month. Foundry Commercial will move its uptown office into 15,000 square feet on the building’s 10th floor. 

No other office tenants have been announced. Foundry’s Meredith Ball, who is in charge of office leasing at The Line, said the project has generated a lot of interest from potential tenants, and her team is currently looking for an office tenant to anchor the building. 

Travis Garland, Portman Holdings’ managing director of office, said projects like The Line are unlike anything that’s been built in Charlotte. 

“Right now in the office world, what everybody is hyper-focused on is quality of location, and I think that’s both physical quality but also quality of environment,” he said. “South End, in broad strokes, is the quality of environment they’re looking for ... This mini area, I don’t know there are these types of pockets in the country that has what this does have and is going to have.”

Similar hype surrounds Vantage South End. 

That project’s West Tower delivered in late 2021 and is close to 100% full, said Virginia Luther, managing director at The Spectrum Cos. Seven of the East Tower’s 11 floors are leased, Luther said. Vantage has leased more than 130,000 square feet of office space since the beginning of 2022. Its East Tower tenants include CBRE, Armstrong Transport Group and Alston & Bird. LendingTree Inc. anchors the West Tower.

“We’ve leased from the bottom up, so we only have the top four floors left, which is a fantastic place to be because they’re the best floors with the best views,” she said. “We’d love to have an anchor like we did with LendingTree, but I think it could potentially be cut into one- or two-floor users all the way through the building of really high-quality tenants.” 

Two projects that are announced but have yet to break ground are Queensbridge Collective, a $750 million, three-tower project from Riverside Investment & Development, and Carson South End, a 31-story tower from Crescent Communities and Nuveen Real Estate.

Joe Franco, CBRE senior vice president, said construction is set to begin on Queensbridge in the fourth quarter with a completion goal of early 2025. For now, Franco said, CBRE and Riverside are keeping leasing rates and potential tenant details under wraps.

 “With any project like this, the goal is to shoot for a pre-lease tenant,” he said. “It’s obviously an exciting project, so there is interest.”

Queensbridge will sit on what is now the site of Uptown Cabaret and Midnight Diner and will transform the city for two reasons, Harrison said. The two-block project includes a 40-story office tower totaling 750,000 square feet, as well as two high-rise apartment buildings and retail and restaurant spaces. “One, the sheer size and scale of the project is unlike anything Charlotte has experienced,” he said. “And two, along with several other existing and planned developments, it starts to create more connectivity between uptown and South End.”

Harrison believes Carson South End, at 1102 S. Tryon St., will ultimately have a similar impact in connecting center city with its ever-growing submarket. “Uptown and the ‘traditional’ South End submarket will continue to bleed together with the success of the Stonewall corridor, Vantage South End and as new developments are delivered,” he said. “Both areas should continue to have different identities but won’t feel so distant.”

[Blue_Devil]

42 minutes ago, rancenc said:

From the Charlotte Business Journal.......

 

The office tower development boom in South End — where 10 major mixed-use projects are moving forward — promises to remake more than the suddenly flourishing submarket. It is redefining what is considered Charlotte’s central business district.

South End projects under development include: 110 East, 1301 at Centre South, 2825 South, Carson South End, Queensbridge Collective, The Line, The Quarter South End, The Station at LoSo, Vantage South End’s East Tower and an unnamed project at 1728 South Blvd. 

 

This will add a total of roughly 3.4 million square feet of office space in South End by the time the projects are complete, according to data from CoStar Group. Chuck McShane, CoStar’s director of market analytics for the Carolinas, said about 1.2 million square feet is currently under construction, with the rest in the proposed phase.

Charlotte’s commercial real estate brokers, developers and analysts all believe the sheer volume of incoming, high-end office space is erasing the line dividing uptown and South End — and broadening the appeal of the city to tenants searching for spaces that will help them build the workforce of the future.

“It’s a testament to how attractive (South End) is ... There’s no doubt it’s on a national radar,” said John Ball, Foundry Commercial market leader and head of the office agency team. “It’s one of the most prominent submarkets in the entire Southeast from a development pipeline perspective, from a capital perspective, from the relocation of people living here.”

At of the end of the first quarter, South End had 3.9 million square feet of total Class A office inventory, with 14.6% vacancy, according to data provided to the Charlotte Business Journal by CoStar Group. By comparison, uptown’s vacancy rate is nearly identical at 14.5%, but its total Class A inventory is five times that of South End at about 21 million square feet. 

A recent report from CoStar noted South End was one of two submarkets in the country to double its high-end office space between 2017 and 2021. The other was Chicago’s Fulton Market.

McShane said this has to do with South End’s ability to attract tenants from other Charlotte submarkets. A large portion of tenants moving into South End are coming from uptown, University City and the airport area.

The gap between the current average lease rates per square foot for Class A office space in South End and uptown is steadily growing. In 2017, the gap was negligible, with an average rate per square-foot of $31.81 uptown, compared to $31.85 in South End, according to CoStar data. As of the end of the first quarter of this year, South End is slightly more costly, at $41.14 per square-foot, compared to uptown’s $36.03. The current citywide average cost per square foot is just under $34.

Ball noted that uptown has historically charged tenants for parking, an additional occupancy cost that would be advertised on top of base rental rates. He said it’s likely that newer South End projects, as well as higher-profile projects in other submarkets, will eventually do the same.

Overall, Ball said, such a small difference in lease rates is not really a driving factor in how companies are deciding where to rent space.

“At the moment we are talking about a relatively modest delta in price points between South End and uptown’s newest Class A offerings, and I do not believe that is contributing in a meaningful way to the evaluation process for most tenants,” he said. “Companies considering leasing space in a trophy project in either submarket are probably more concerned with selecting the best building for their respective needs and ability to compete and retain talent.”

VIEW SLIDESHOW
10 photos

So why South End?

Besides the obvious — walkability, proximity to the Lynx Blue Line and density of amenities — Charlotte, and South End in particular, are quickly rising among the country’s top markets to live and work. 

Patrick Gildea, vice chairman for CBRE Capital Markets, said this is especially true for young professionals in their 20s, 30s and early 40s. That makes the submarket attractive to companies battling for talent.

“As one of the top millennial growth markets in the U.S. over the last 10 years, employers are chasing talent,” he said. “We are consistently compared to other top-tier growth cities like Nashville, Austin and Denver.”

Gildea said tenants searching for space are increasingly focused on new construction, with the majority of that happening in South End. “This is not a mass exodus from uptown, but more of a focus on new space. South End will continue to become an extension of the center city, and the lines between uptown and South End will likely blur over time.”

Kenlie Chap, senior research analyst for JLL, recently told CBJ that vacancy rates in uptown won’t rise significantly because most buildings there were renovated starting in 2017 and are still attractive spaces for many current and potential tenants.

Bill Harrison, executive director at Cushman & Wakefield, said South End’s newest projects, both proposed and under construction, continue to grow in scale compared to recent deliveries.

“The new projects are all unique and very appealing but will need to attract larger-scale office tenants than the submarket has historically experienced,” he said. “Charlotte’s growth potential and appeal should offset most of that concern.”

Coming down the pipeline

Five of South End’s 10 major mixed-used projects are set to deliver by the end of 2022. Vantage South End - East Tower and The Line open next month; The Quarter South End’s three buildings should come along in May, July and December; and 2825 South as well as The Station at LoSo - Stations 3 and 4 are expected to deliver in the fourth quarter. 

The Line, at 2151 Hawkins St., is one of the most anticipated projects in the submarket this year. The 16-story, 293,000-square-foot high rise will welcome its first tenant next month. Foundry Commercial will move its uptown office into 15,000 square feet on the building’s 10th floor. 

No other office tenants have been announced. Foundry’s Meredith Ball, who is in charge of office leasing at The Line, said the project has generated a lot of interest from potential tenants, and her team is currently looking for an office tenant to anchor the building. 

Travis Garland, Portman Holdings’ managing director of office, said projects like The Line are unlike anything that’s been built in Charlotte. 

“Right now in the office world, what everybody is hyper-focused on is quality of location, and I think that’s both physical quality but also quality of environment,” he said. “South End, in broad strokes, is the quality of environment they’re looking for ... This mini area, I don’t know there are these types of pockets in the country that has what this does have and is going to have.”

Similar hype surrounds Vantage South End. 

That project’s West Tower delivered in late 2021 and is close to 100% full, said Virginia Luther, managing director at The Spectrum Cos. Seven of the East Tower’s 11 floors are leased, Luther said. Vantage has leased more than 130,000 square feet of office space since the beginning of 2022. Its East Tower tenants include CBRE, Armstrong Transport Group and Alston & Bird. LendingTree Inc. anchors the West Tower.

“We’ve leased from the bottom up, so we only have the top four floors left, which is a fantastic place to be because they’re the best floors with the best views,” she said. “We’d love to have an anchor like we did with LendingTree, but I think it could potentially be cut into one- or two-floor users all the way through the building of really high-quality tenants.” 

Two projects that are announced but have yet to break ground are Queensbridge Collective, a $750 million, three-tower project from Riverside Investment & Development, and Carson South End, a 31-story tower from Crescent Communities and Nuveen Real Estate.

Joe Franco, CBRE senior vice president, said construction is set to begin on Queensbridge in the fourth quarter with a completion goal of early 2025. For now, Franco said, CBRE and Riverside are keeping leasing rates and potential tenant details under wraps.

 “With any project like this, the goal is to shoot for a pre-lease tenant,” he said. “It’s obviously an exciting project, so there is interest.”

Queensbridge will sit on what is now the site of Uptown Cabaret and Midnight Diner and will transform the city for two reasons, Harrison said. The two-block project includes a 40-story office tower totaling 750,000 square feet, as well as two high-rise apartment buildings and retail and restaurant spaces. “One, the sheer size and scale of the project is unlike anything Charlotte has experienced,” he said. “And two, along with several other existing and planned developments, it starts to create more connectivity between uptown and South End.”

Harrison believes Carson South End, at 1102 S. Tryon St., will ultimately have a similar impact in connecting center city with its ever-growing submarket. “Uptown and the ‘traditional’ South End submarket will continue to bleed together with the success of the Stonewall corridor, Vantage South End and as new developments are delivered,” he said. “Both areas should continue to have different identities but won’t feel so distant.”

Great article, but they are a bit behind on the Line. NorthEastern and SVB have now both taken space. And there is another tenant, under the pseudonym “Golden Ticket”

[atlrvr]

I think Golden Ticket was Foundry Commercial....not sure how that name is relevant, but anyway.

[RANYC]

My takeaway is that Queensbridge is a splashy project with no tenant commitment.  Maybe it'll happen, but I have a growing sense that at least the office component of Queensbridge may very well not happen or not happen on the published timeline.  Hope I'm wrong.  

[Blue_Devil]

Just now, RANYC said:

My takeaway is that Queensbridge is a splashy project with no tenant commitment.  Maybe it'll happen, but I have a growing sense that at least the office component of Queensbridge may very well not happen or not happen on the published timeline.  Hope I'm wrong.  

I am pretty sure you are wrong.

[RANYC]

3 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I am pretty sure you are wrong.

I was expressing uncertainty and leaving open the chance that a massive and speculative project doesn't come to fruition.  I suppose massive high-rise office projects in Charlotte always materialize once announced, but they often fizzle in looking at markets countrywide.  On what grounds do you have such surety?

Edited April 29, 2022 by RANYC

[Blue_Devil]

33 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I was expressing uncertainty and leaving open the chance that a massive and speculative project doesn't come to fruition.  I suppose massive high-rise office projects in Charlotte always materialize once announced, but they often fizzle in looking at markets countrywide.  On what grounds do you have such surety?

There is a reason they actually haven’t actually posted signage compared to a crescent  next door. I will say I think your thought process is more correct on that project.