Charlotte/Raleigh Highrise Building Booms

[SlackJack]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:49 AM, Blue_Devil said:

Yah, SLI Capital (Kane's son) is did a cool project in Durham. Now this. He is going to be competing with his Dad, and its good for Raleigh. 

Yes. This is a $ 600 million dollar project.   Junior is starting out strong.  Raleigh will be seeing many construction cranes in 2022.  Downtown, North Hills and Iron Works.

[SlackJack]

On 11/23/2021 at 2:15 PM, TheRealClayton said:

Couple things:

1. Whoever moderates the Charlotte skyscraper Wiki page is awful and deletes anything you add or even correct. It's not worth even trying to keep updated. It's probably metroboi.

2. Raleigh's are largely visions, upzonings and Public Private Partnership (PPPs), and for whatever reason they seem a lot less tight lipped than Charlotte's PPPs.

3. In Raleigh they seem to take visions as reality, and we have learned over years of heartbreak, not to do that. I had Raleigh followers bragging about their new soccer stadium and the "Tower built into the side of it" and meanwhile... https://www.wral.com/planned-stadium-for-raleigh-s-downtown-south-development-on-hold/19991360/

3. Between the Four Public Private Partnership active uptown (Gateway, CTC, 7th & Tryon and Brooklyn Village) there could be as many as 13 towers added. For whatever reason all are generally kept pretty under wraps. Gateway Village could be the most urban development in the Southeast outside of Brickell, yet all that is public are the CATS RFP renderings that do not in any way represent what is planned. In contrast RUSBUS drastically over promises publicly what will be built there.

4. The pipeline of unannounced residential towers in planning in South End is STAGGERING. Raleigh does not have a single urban submarket that is comparable to South End. 

Regarding your item # 3, the stadium is on hold , because covid drained any public money for it, but the Downtown South development is not. Kane-Malik are starting the first two buildings of this project in early to mid 2022.  Still, public support for the stadium is mixed, even before covid, so  it remains to be seen if the city/county gives them money. Regardless, John Kane is proceeding with this project , along with others beside Dix Park, Smoky Hollow and Warehouse District. He has the dollars to do whatever he wants, and I believe that it is Steve Malik pushing the stadium.  As previously mentioned, Kane's son is also gearing up in the Dix area and in the "Ironworks" area which I believe that Grubb is calling East End. 

[carolina1792]

14 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Dang - thought you meant ‘University City’…..

UC in Charlotte may stay low rise for some time.  Shouldn’t complain since highrises are beginning to spread throughout Center City (Southend, Midtown) and Ballantyne.

A Charlotte-based developer, Lincoln Harris, is in charge for redeveloping a 32-acre parcel of NCSU's Centennial Campus that has a max height allowance of 28-stories. 'Town-style'/'live-work-play development with maybe one or two towers to max out the height. For sure, there is no such thing as a 28-story zoning category in Raleigh, NCSU requested that condition so I will assume they have at least some plan to got that high for a least one tower. Lincoln Harris expects to start work on the area in 2022 with a full build out of the site by 2032. 

[KJHburg]

Here is the mass timber building to be built in Kane's Downtown South along with some apartments.  Hines is building a mass timber building in their new phase of American Tobacco Campus in Durham.  Yet no one has pulled the triggered on a mass timber building here in Charlotte.     Kane gets things done in Raleigh!   This is a fantastic looking building. 

I think I will say as a frequent traveler to Triangle: their downtowns are booming with growth and new towers are being sprouted in both cities.  Raleigh is finally growing up and I mean up in floors and approving more high rises than they ever had.  Durham is getting a new tall apartment and condo tower that is gorgeous.  It is great to see all of our NC cities revitalizing their downtowns.  

Edited December 19, 2021 by KJHburg

[Hushpuppy321]

Charlotte high rise construction projects that are now beginning to break ground already this year.  You Raleigh crowd keep us updated on your high-rises breaking ground, will be interesting to see which ones start and which don’t.  Charlotte definitely has many that should be starting in the first half of this year.

[KJHburg]

From what I see in Raleigh under construction right now and I mean dirt flying cranes rising etc.  is 400H  a nice mixed use tower which is a block away from the 19 story Pendo building just completed.

Also a 13 story dual brand hotel downtown Hilton Garden Homewood Suites.   https://www.cnhotels.net/hotels#tab2default

Several  The Creamery apartment tower is getting ready to start it will be 32 stories along Glenwood and several more projects that are getting ready to start.  Not the height but great filling in of their skyline. 

Photo is of the crane from December of the 400 H with the Pendo Software tower to right. 

Plus a couple of mid rise apartment complexes at Seaboard Station, the Acorn and the Platform. 

Edited February 3 by KJHburg

[Skyybutter]

On 11/20/2021 at 8:54 PM, JacksonH said:

Seeing all the news about proposed towers in Charlotte, it is really impressive.  It seems that the construction never stops.  But I was looking at Wikipedia and this surprised me:  There are fourteen towers currently proposed (not yet under construction) in Charlotte.  That seems like a big number, except.  . .  there are twenty-five proposed for Raleigh!  Twenty-five!  (Greensboro only has one proposed, by the  way.)  It makes me wonder, though, if Raleigh is one day going to catch up to Charlotte and rival its skyline, and its metro population.  Thoughts?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_North_Carolina

Not in our lifetimw and probably not ever.

Charlotte will have the premier skyline for at least 50yrs.(I'll likely be dead or senile which is cool).

As far as population. I like looking at CSA's and Charlotte's is a good 500,000 over Raleighs CSA . I think Charlotte will eventually gobble up Cherokee County  in SC as well as  Catawba County and Alexander County in NC. That will add another 200k to our CSA. Just my 2 cents.

[Skyybutter]

On 12/13/2021 at 11:27 AM, Hushpuppy321 said:

 Mecklenburg truly is running out of space to Sprawl whereas Wake has plenty to spare.

Mmmm. Yes and no. There is still LOTS of fields and farms in Mecklenburg.  Northeastern Mecklenburg has tons of open space. Out 24/27 to the county line has space. I'm not as familiar with western areas but around Mountain Island Lake there is land. When push comes to shove we will go vertical.  

[nicholas]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:58 PM, KJHburg said:

From what I see in Raleigh under construction right now and I mean dirt flying cranes rising etc.  is 400H  a nice mixed use tower which is a block away from the 19 story Pendo building just completed.

Also a 13 story dual brand hotel downtown Hilton Garden Homewood Suites.   https://www.cnhotels.net/hotels#tab2default

Several  The Creamery apartment tower is getting ready to start it will be 32 stories along Glenwood and several more projects that are getting ready to start.  Not the height but great filling in of their skyline. 

Photo is of the crane from December of the 400 H with the Pendo Software tower to right. 

Plus a couple of mid rise apartment complexes at Seaboard Station, the Acorn and the Platform. 

The RUSBUS tower should be breaking ground before long too.  It will be on the right side of the pic (across from Citrix) and is slated to be 435 ft tall, which will make it the second-tallest building in Raleigh.  A hotel will also be built between the apartment tower and Raleigh Union Station.  The whole project looks to have fantastic ground-level design as well.

Edited February 9 by nicholas

[carolina1792]

Durham isn't slowing down. Another 27 story tower has been proposed today that will replace the YMCA property in downtown Durham. That will be the THIRD 27-story tower in Durham after the current One City Center tower and the future Novus apartment/condo tower. There's also a 25 story residential tower in the works and a few 18+ story towers going through the development process.   

Edited February 9 by carolina1792

[KJHburg]

Yes the RUSBUS tower is very exciting due to its height and that will really help Raleigh fill in and expand their skyline. 

I heard about that latest apartment tower on the YMCA site today and the other one by Austin Lawrence.   I hope one of these can be the new tallest in the city which is still the suburban University Tower on 15/501. 

[carolina1792]

The stalled Nexus four  20-story tower project in Raleigh is almost done rezoning to 40 stories.  Details about the new plans will be revealed later in the year.  The project will look the same but some of the towers will get taller likely the condo and apartment tower will add several more floors. The final floor counts is still being reviewed. If you look at the rendering below the project will look the same however add more height to the two towers in the foreground. 

 

 

[thenewkage95]

Raleigh's list of proposed towers is extremely ambitious. These are just the ones planned to be over 30 stories tall. How any of these do you actually think will be built in the near/distant future? I know the Wikipedia page isn't the most accurate source for information on planned construction projects, but I noticed Charlotte only has 6 planned buildings exceeding 30 stories (and two of those are on hold). What are you all's thoughts?

Edited February 10 by thenewkage95

[TheRealClayton]

1 hour ago, thenewkage95 said:

Raleigh's list of proposed towers is extremely ambitious. These are just the ones planned to be over 30 stories tall. How any of these do you actually think will be built in the near/distant future? I know the Wikipedia page isn't the most accurate source for information on planned construction projects, but I noticed Charlotte only has 6 planned buildings exceeding 30 stories (and two of those are on hold). What are you all's thoughts?

I think that Raleigh gets really excited and calls master plans "proposals" when really the only reason things are listed as 20,30, and 40 floors is that's the extent of what zoning allows in most cases. In most cases, none of these are planned out buildings, they are "visions" to market Raleigh and it's various pie in the sky ideas, just like Queen Park is here. The things that are on Charlotte's wiki, which is not even close to updated are towers, are sure things.  I have a list of 61 towers planned in Charlotte over 17 floors, 13 of them are over 30, and most of them are more realistic than the ones listed above. Also worth noting that the "Carolinas DevelopmentTower, listed on that site, is not on my list, because that building was never a realistic proposal.

Edited February 10 by TheRealClayton

[thenewkage95]

48 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

I think that Raleigh gets really excited and calls master plans "proposals" when really the only reason things are listed as 20,30, and 40 floors is that's the extent of what zoning allows in most cases. In most cases, none of these are planned out buildings, they are "visions" to market Raleigh and it's various pie in the sky ideas, just like Queen Park is here. The things that are on Charlotte's wiki, which is not even close to updated are towers, are sure things.  I have a list of 61 towers planned in Charlotte over 17 floors, 13 of them are over 30, and most of them are more realistic than the ones listed above. Also worth noting that the "Carolinas DevelopmentTower, listed on that site, is not on my list, because that building was never a realistic proposal.

I was pretty blown away about the Raleigh Convention Hotel and Downtown Development Project towers being listed at ~550 and ~800 feet respectively. Not that I was in disbelief, but I figured we would have heard about Raleigh planning an 800 footer. I decided to check the source for that project and I came across this:

It was updated on January 11th. I hate it because it would be nice to see some taller buildings in Raleigh (although I'd prefer to see a new 800+ footer in Charlotte). All in all, you're absolutely right! The wiki is very unreliable and perhaps Raleigh jumps the gun just a bit in posting their development propositions.

[carolina1792]

12 minutes ago, thenewkage95 said:

I was pretty blown away about the Raleigh Convention Hotel and Downtown Development Project towers being listed at ~550 and ~800 feet respectively. Not that I was in disbelief, but I figured we would have heard about Raleigh planning an 800 footer. I decided to check the source for that project and I came across this:

It was updated on January 11th. I hate it because it would be nice to see some taller buildings in Raleigh (although I'd prefer to see a new 800+ footer in Charlotte). All in all, you're absolutely right! The wiki is very unreliable and perhaps Raleigh jumps the gun just a bit in posting their development propositions.

The convention center hotel and office tower project was simply an RFP with a cash benefit of $30 million dollars. There were no concrete plans just a shot in the dark and then COVID happen. However, the city will be re-considering a new proposal for these lots in the future. Open secret but the city/county will be looking into building the new arena to replace the PNC Arena behind the Convention Center as an option as the refurbishment of the current arena has skyrocketed and new construction may not be more expensive. The timeline is around the mid-2030s. 

[carolina1792]

1 hour ago, thenewkage95 said:

Raleigh's list of proposed towers is extremely ambitious. These are just the ones planned to be over 30 stories tall. How any of these do you actually think will be built in the near/distant future? I know the Wikipedia page isn't the most accurate source for information on planned construction projects, but I noticed Charlotte only has 6 planned buildings exceeding 30 stories (and two of those are on hold). What are you all's thoughts?

I would ignore Wikipedia. Raleigh has odd zoning laws. A project that is 21 stories tall need to apply for a 40 story rezoning. 

Here are the 3 towers over 30 stories what that will break ground in the next 18 months: 38-story RUSBUS residential tower (April), 32 story residential tower at the Creamery (Q3 2022), and the Smoky Hollow III (Q4 2022, floor count to be announced soon but over 30 stories for the residential tower). 

 

[jthomas]

24 minutes ago, carolina1792 said:

The convention center hotel and office tower project was simply an RFP with a cash benefit of $30 million dollars. There were no concrete plans just a shot in the dark and then COVID happen. However, the city will be re-considering a new proposal for these lots in the future. Open secret but the city/county will be looking into building the new arena to replace the PNC Arena behind the Convention Center as an option as the refurbishment of the current arena has skyrocketed and new construction may not be more expensive. The timeline is around the mid-2030s. 

Interesting to hear about the arena replacement - are you referring to the block that currently contains the amphitheater? It really makes sense to pair the arena with the convention center. Do you know if NCSU has interest in playing in a downtown arena?

[carolina1792]

10 minutes ago, jthomas said:

Interesting to hear about the arena replacement - are you referring to the block that currently contains the amphitheater? It really makes sense to pair the arena with the convention center. Do you know if NCSU has interest in playing in a downtown arena?

Yes, originally the plan was to expand the convention center onto this property but that plan appears to be sidelined now as the stakeholders are reviewing their post-COVID options--including a new arena.  NCSU has their own plans for a new basketball arena on-campus. 

Edited February 10 by carolina1792

[jthomas]

6 minutes ago, carolina1792 said:

Yes, originally the plan was to expand the convention center onto this property but that plan appears to be sidelined now as the stakeholders are reviewing their post-COVID options--including a new arena.  NCSU has their own plans for a new basketball arena on-campus. 

Thanks! As a State grad, I know folks have been pining for an on-campus arena almost ever since PNC opened, but I have not heard any serious plans about doing so at the end of PNC's life span. I think a 14-15k arena on campus, like JPJ Arena at UVA, would be perfect for State. I'd love to see it on the main campus - I'd put it where the track/soccer stadium is now, so it would be adjacent to the Coliseum deck and close to a future commuter rail station. But I fear that they will stick it on Centennial for better highway access instead.

[kermit]

^ a downtown arena for the Canes would take Raleigh to the next level. I am a big hockey fan, but I have absolutely no desire to travel to the "Fields at PNC Pines Arena" for a game. 

Edited February 11 by kermit

[tarhoosier]

I went to PNC for a hockey game and will never again. I had expensive seats, seven rows behind the Canadien bench. The seat pitch, or distance for legs, was tighter than any contemporary arena seat I could recall. I rubbed my lower leg bone on the seat back in front of me the whole game. I do not recall drink holders at the seat. The squeeze was not acceptable. Good beer selection on the concourse was the only grace. The glassy outer skin was over a concrete and block inner structure and made it look and work as if it were an aged building repurposed for modern appearance, without modern seating, concourses and other amenities.

[jthomas]

It is a charmless arena for sure. Bland exterior, anonymous setting, confusing and disconnected concourses. I have probably been to 100 events there over the years and still can't learn to like it. I was at the State-Wake game last night, and the best thing I can say is that the exit from the parking lot was speedy (although, the home team's performance isn't helping the experience these days!). So, hearing that the Pack (and Canes) may move on to better digs is making my day today.

[Crucial_Infra]

8 hours ago, thenewkage95 said:

was pretty blown away about the Raleigh Convention Hotel and Downtown Development Project towers being listed at ~550 and ~800 feet respectively. Not that I was in disbelief, but I figured we would have heard about Raleigh planning an 800 footer. I decided to check the source for that project and I came across this:

Raleigh with an 800 footer might look worse than OKC’s Devon Tower dwarfing that city. 

Edited February 11 by Crucial_Infra

[thenewkage95]

1 hour ago, Crucial_Infra said:

Raleigh with an 800 footer might look worse than OKC’s Devon Tower dwarfing that city. 

But another 800 footer like that would look gorgeous on the Charlotte Skyline! I hope we continue to build tall (and also fill in the skyline with mid-rises as well).