Isn't it time for Carowinds to be redeveloped?

[southernnorthcarolina]

I've often thought that an amusement park, only open for part of the year, wasn't the highest and best use for a 407 acre site with direct access to I-77 and quick access to the Charlotte airport, in two fast-growing counties (Mecklenburg, NC and York, SC).  Carowinds has changed hands several times - from an independent operation to Taft Broadcasting to Kings Entertainment to Paramount to Cedar Fair.

And today it was announced that SeaWorld has offered to buy Cedar Fair.  So it might be time for a reset.  Seems to me that a combination office park/industrial park/distribution center might make sense.  Are there any European or Asian auto manufacturers or tech businesses looking for a plant location?  

redeveloped.  Geeze, what typing.  Is there an edit function here?  If not, can a moderator correct this?

[CLT2014]

Carowinds provides an amenity / thing to do for the entire region and provides entertainment. In a region with limited popular attractions to bring in visitors, I think it is preferable to have Carowinds in the population center than more industrial parks / warehouses. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by CLT2014

[InSouthPark]

2 Million visitors a year.  4000+ seasonal jobs.  One of the ONLY fun things for families to do in the area.  Open 9 months a year. 

There is hundreds and hundreds of open acres in the area, including a ton near the airport.   I mean the panthers just nabbed 250 undeveloped acres off of 77.  Lets leave one of our only tourist attractions as is until the wheels fall off!  We lived at Carowinds in the summer/fall for like 10 years when my daughter was growing up (she still goes but without me lol).  

[15895]

No.

 

 

[tozmervo]

Six Flags tried to buy Cedar Fair a few years ago, too. Most online chatter doesn't think this offer goes anywhere.

That said, absolutely not to redevelopment. Especially since it was sold to Cedar Fair, Carowinds is a huge asset to the area and I believe has only continued growth and improvement in its future. 

[Blue_Devil]

Replace a giant tourist attraction and center for local entertainment with an Office Park? 

Wut?

[Madison Parkitect]

Why would we redevelop the biggest family attraction in either state?

[Norm2]

57 minutes ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

I've often thought that an amusement park, only open for part of the year, wasn't the highest and best use for a 407 acre site with direct access to I-77 and quick access to the Charlotte airport, in two fast-growing counties (Mecklenburg, NC and York, SC).  Carowinds has changed hands several times - from an independent operation to Taft Broadcasting to Kings Entertainment to Paramount to Cedar Fair.

And today it was announced that SeaWorld has offered to buy Cedar Fair.  So it might be time for a reset.  Seems to me that a combination office park/industrial park/distribution center might make sense.  Are there any European or Asian auto manufacturers or tech businesses looking for a plant location?  

redeveloped.  Geeze, what typing.  Is there an edit function here?  If not, can a moderator correct this?

Most amusement parks not in California or Florida aren't open year round. This is not only because if the cold, but it allows for maintenance and construction as well. Carowinds itself is open from March through the first week of January. Any amusement park that is open less than 365 days a year would be a waste if your suggestion is followed. That's a very scary prospect.

[videtur quam contuor]

I was at one of the Southern Shows at the Merchandise Mart (former name) in '72. Either Spring or Christmas, I guess. Pat Hall the developer was there with Miss South Carolina in her tiara and gown. He was puffing the to-be-built Carowinds Theme Park. I shook his hand and basked in the warmth of the never ending smile of the pageant winner at his side. Colorful designs on placards supported by easels displayed his dreams. I had just moved here from Los Angeles and had visited Disneyland and I wondered how such a limited location such was Charlotte at that time could possibly have something that rivaled the Disney effort. He was correct and I was the one with limited imagination, as has so often been the case. It was a HUGE step forward for the regional and perhaps national resonance of the city of Charlotte when it opened. 1

Sixteen years later it was the dream of the Hornets that drove us forward. What will be next?

[kermit]

I was an young teen growing up in Durham in the early 80s. Carowinds was the ONLY reason I had to ever think about Charlotte. It wasn't until I reached my mid 20s that I realized there was more to Charlotte than the Oaken Bucket, White Lightening and the yellow painted state line.

Edited February 1, 2022 by kermit

[Durhamite]

14 minutes ago, kermit said:

I was an young teen growing up in Durham in the early 80s. Carowinds was the ONLY reason I had to ever think about Charlotte. It wasn't until I reached my mid 20s that I realized there was more to Charlotte than the Oak and Bucket, White Lightening and the yellow painted state line.

Don't forget about the monorail, water log ride, and thunderoad.

[deleted account]

3 hours ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

Seems to me that a combination office park/industrial park/distribution center might make sense.  

This is our proof that he's joking. No one would seriously suggest that we need a suburban office/industrial park (post pandemic!) to replace a thriving amusement park beloved by residents. AND, he feels so strongly about it that he started a new thread to discuss? At a time when many other suburban office projects are dormant or converting to residential? Clearly trolling. Right? Right?!? Or is this the Onion? April 1? 

[JacksonH]

15 minutes ago, kermit said:

I was an young teen growing up in Durham in the early 80s. Carowinds was the ONLY reason I had to ever think about Charlotte. It wasn't until I reached my mid 20s that I realized there was more to Charlotte than the Oak and Bucket, White Lightening and the yellow painted state line.

Haha, I could have written those words myself, except I was coming from Asheboro, not Durham.  The first time was as a cub scout.

To the OP:  Do you really think Charlotte doesn't have enough suburban office parks?

[videtur quam contuor]

Went to a concert at the Palladium when that was operating with touring top rank talent. Kris Kristofferson and Rita Coolidge. Went with friends who had passes to aftershow. The aftershow event was in the upper level of the antebellum building that is the entry gate. After drinks and some mingling Kris and Rita (I believe they were a couple at the time) came in and I asked Kris if he wanted a drink. He looked at me and said "Yes" in as eager a way as possible. I learned then that with a special person I ask if I can fetch a drink/water and they are ALWAYS appreciative.

Also saw Lyle Lovett and Delbert McClinton double bill another time. Appearance fees rose so high they could not match shed/amphitheatre and shows so that was the end of top rank appearances at Carowinds.

[go_vertical]

[Havemercy]

Growing up during the 70's / early 80's in Asheville....Carowinds (I thought it was spelled Carrowinds until I moved here in the 90's - never got that Caro was for Carolina) was always a trip I would look forward to.  Church youth group crammed in a van with no AC, school weekend trip on a big yellow school bus driving 30 mph down the interstate and then eventually driving with friends when I was a teenager - I always remember hitting 2-lane I-77 south and knew it wasn't much longer until I could ride White Lightening, Thunder Road, the Eastern Airlines Skytower and jump over the line from NC to SC at the main entrance.  I went the first year it opened and every year throughout childhood.  After moving here, spent another 20 or so years taking my kids all summer including the water park.  Jimmy Buffett concerts were the greatest - would camp out in my car at the main entrance waiting for the gates to open to get a shot at great seats.  What a wonderful attraction to have so close and for so many generations to take advantage of.   Its never going to be a Disneyworld - and don't want it to be - but it is exactly what this region and the Carolinas need.  

The OP may be trolling, but this thread brought back some great memories!

[videtur quam contuor]

Quite a while ago Carowinds had occasional airshows. As part of the admission some acrobatic airplanes flew over with smoke release and barrel rolls and all the other excitement of low altitude entertaining flight. One teensy problem: People on 77 would pull over, stop, and some leave their cars to watch the show from the roadside. Anyone else see this? I saw it from the highway, accidentally. I did not stop. After a season or two the air shows ended.

It is great that many have fond memories of the place.

Edit: This mentions it; http://carowindsearlyyears.com/balloon.html

Edited February 2, 2022 by tarhoosier

[KJHburg]

Oh my I dont look at the site for almost a full day and y'all are ready to bulldoze Carowinds!   Just no.  the only thing it would be replaced with would be big box warehouses and No to that.  It is a major tourist attraction and ask the people over in the Nashville UP how they still miss and talk about Opryland which was replaced by a mall like Concord Mills.   Carowinds is great and should be built upon and Cedar Fair has made it almost a year round attraction.  I hope it is is here for my next and future generations to enjoy it.  

I remember this a kid and I loved going there!  I was the little kid walking down the state line with my legs spread walking in both states! 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by KJHburg

[southernnorthcarolina]

No, I wasn't trolling.  Nor was I trying to step on anyone's nostalgia for roller coasters and snowcones.

But this is, more or less, a real estate forum.  As such, I repeat my question:  Is an amusement park the highest and best use of 400+ acres in a location such as this?  When Carowinds started, it was out in the sticks.  Land in the vicinity was cheap.  I-277 didn't exist.  Today?  Not so much.  Charlotte continues to grow toward the south, and York County, SC is the fastest growing county in the Charlotte metro area.

The site's access to I-77, I-277 (and the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport), US 21, NC 49, and NC 51 is outstanding.  The points made upthread about a current oversupply of office park space are well taken.  But that's temporary.  The "if you build it, they will come" slogan applies here.  In addition to a conventional office park, a portion of the land could attract a major industrial/assembly plant, for instance an auto factory.  Heck, a battle between NC and SC over which state promises the most tax incentives could attract a factory or two; the Carowinds site would win either way.

Retail, hotel, high density retail around the edges?  Maybe.  But for the most part, this strikes me as fertile ground for office and/or industrial uses.  Maybe it will be a few years away.  But the roller coasters will be squeezed out by more productive uses.

 

[KJHburg]

4 minutes ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

No, I wasn't trolling.  Nor was I trying to step on anyone's nostalgia for roller coasters and snowcones.

But this is, more or less, a real estate forum.  As such, I repeat my question:  Is an amusement park the highest and best use of 400+ acres in a location such as this?  When Carowinds started, it was out in the sticks.  Land in the vicinity was cheap.  I-277 didn't exist.  Today?  Not so much.  Charlotte continues to grow toward the south, and York County, SC is the fastest growing county in the Charlotte metro area.

The site's access to I-77, I-277 (and the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport), US 21, NC 49, and NC 51 is outstanding.  The points made upthread about a current oversupply of office park space are well taken.  But that's temporary.  The "if you build it, they will come" slogan applies here.  In addition to a conventional office park, a portion of the land could attract a major industrial/assembly plant, for instance an auto factory.  Heck, a battle between NC and SC over which state promises the most tax incentives could attract a factory or two; the Carowinds site would win either way.

Retail, hotel, high density retail around the edges?  Maybe.  But for the most part, this strikes me as fertile ground for office and/or industrial uses.  Maybe it will be a few years away.  But the roller coasters will be squeezed out by more productive uses.

 

The replacement cost of an amusement park like this would be double triple quadruple the costs even if you sold the land.  In a city that heavily relies on business travel and special events we need a big attraction that will attract tourists to this area.  We do need a megasite for large industrial projects but this is not really it.  Needs to be further out or use some of that airport owned land that would be ideal for large scale industrial plants.  Given what is around Carowinds right now warehousing and light industrial would be the highest and best use.  As long as it stays viable it should continue.      Good to think outside the box but this type of attraction is one of kind in this 2 state region.  

[kermit]

19 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

The replacement cost of an amusement park like this would be double triple quadruple the costs even if you sold the land.  In a city that heavily relies on business travel and special events we need a big attraction that will attract tourists to this area.  We do need a megasite for large industrial projects but this is not really it.  Needs to be further out or use some of that airport owned land that would be ideal for large scale industrial plants.  Given what is around Carowinds right now warehousing and light industrial would be the highest and best use.  As long as it stays viable it should continue.      Good to think outside the box but this type of attraction is one of kind in this 2 state region.  

This!

One of the things where Charlotte really punches above its weight is the low-key, regional tourism market. Despite our mundane landscape, we manage to attract tons of visitors to drink in uptown, see the Hornets (and Panthers and Knights (to a lessor extent)) and go to Carowinds. As long as Charlotte manages to serve as the 'fun' urban center for the Western Carolinas Piedmont we will bring in money (and future skilled workers (like me and everyone else reminiscing in this thread)) that we would not have otherwise seen.

If we had proper economic development professionals in Charlotte they would have already assembled rail and/or interstate accessible megasites in Stanly, Gaston and Cleveland Counties. Those sites are ripe for the picking if local governments and institutions would just bother to assemble them. On the other hand, Carowinds straddles the state line in a large urban area so its location makes it one of the least likely places to attract incentives in the region.

[Norm2]

1 hour ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

No, I wasn't trolling.  Nor was I trying to step on anyone's nostalgia for roller coasters and snowcones.

But this is, more or less, a real estate forum.  As such, I repeat my question:  Is an amusement park the highest and best use of 400+ acres in a location such as this?  When Carowinds started, it was out in the sticks.  Land in the vicinity was cheap.  I-277 didn't exist.  Today?  Not so much.  Charlotte continues to grow toward the south, and York County, SC is the fastest growing county in the Charlotte metro area.

The site's access to I-77, I-277 (and the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport), US 21, NC 49, and NC 51 is outstanding.  The points made upthread about a current oversupply of office park space are well taken.  But that's temporary.  The "if you build it, they will come" slogan applies here.  In addition to a conventional office park, a portion of the land could attract a major industrial/assembly plant, for instance an auto factory.  Heck, a battle between NC and SC over which state promises the most tax incentives could attract a factory or two; the Carowinds site would win either way.

Retail, hotel, high density retail around the edges?  Maybe.  But for the most part, this strikes me as fertile ground for office and/or industrial uses.  Maybe it will be a few years away.  But the roller coasters will be squeezed out by more productive uses.

 

No. Just.....no 

[joenc]

Hilarious.

Looking at the area though, is there anything that can be done with the quarries on Nations Ford?

---

Made me waste time on wikipedia, learned about this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geauga_Lake. Had 2.7 million visitors in 2001!

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by joenc

[deleted account]

This has me thinking about all the valuable land in Orange County, CA. When Disneyland was built it was just a bunch of orange groves. Now though, just imagine the office parks they could build. And Orlando! Bulldoze those parks and build some more useful warehouses (a higher and better use). How many office parks could we fit in Yellowstone? I do think we should wait until we have bulldozed Latta Arcade and Gateway Village though (as has been suggested previously)...we need more surface parking in Uptown even more than more suburban office and industrial parks. 

On a serious note, I hope they EXPAND Carowinds AND the Whitewater Center, Discovery Place, etc.  And I hope we eventually build a zoo and aquarium. This thread demonstrates the impact these places have on residents (especially children). Though I do have fond memories of that office park my dad worked in...

[Matthew.Brendan]

13 hours ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

No, I wasn't trolling.  Nor was I trying to step on anyone's nostalgia for roller coasters and snowcones.

But this is, more or less, a real estate forum.  As such, I repeat my question:  Is an amusement park the highest and best use of 400+ acres in a location such as this?  When Carowinds started, it was out in the sticks.  Land in the vicinity was cheap.  I-277 didn't exist.  Today?  Not so much.  Charlotte continues to grow toward the south, and York County, SC is the fastest growing county in the Charlotte metro area.

The site's access to I-77, I-277 (and the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport), US 21, NC 49, and NC 51 is outstanding.  The points made upthread about a current oversupply of office park space are well taken.  But that's temporary.  The "if you build it, they will come" slogan applies here.  In addition to a conventional office park, a portion of the land could attract a major industrial/assembly plant, for instance an auto factory.  Heck, a battle between NC and SC over which state promises the most tax incentives could attract a factory or two; the Carowinds site would win either way.

Retail, hotel, high density retail around the edges?  Maybe.  But for the most part, this strikes me as fertile ground for office and/or industrial uses.  Maybe it will be a few years away.  But the roller coasters will be squeezed out by more productive uses.

 

So in this picture.... your concern is Carowinds?

Edited February 2, 2022 by Matthew.Brendan