Seventy Eight at St. Paul's (Approved)

[varider]

~270 apartments proposed+ small commercial space on the corner of St. Paul’s/Bute + a substantial city-owned parking garage to accommodate Scope / church overflow. Apartments are to be built out of steel rather than wood + 80% will be market rate with 20% affordable housing. 

[Arctic_Tern]

Would always desire more first floor retail at such a high visibility area but I also thought the church there would put a stranglehold on that parking lot so this plan looks pretty freaking good in that context. 

[BFG]

I grew up in the church at the bottom of that map. The story I was told is that the church sold the lot to the city back in the 70s.

The only time I remember any parking issues was on Sunday afternoons and maybe during Wednesday or Thursday night events. So for that reason I’m curious as to how this affects parking for two churches, even though it’s a pretty large lot. 

The design looks pretty solid given the project. 

[varider]

Off the top of my head, I can think of over 1,500 units that are either under construction now or likely to begin construction this year, not including the 1000+ low income affordable housing units, which only serve to make NFK’s urban core much more desirable. That’s pretty transformative IMO.
Gravity 400- 273 units , 

Fusion @ NEON - 250 units 

Monument Co. 601 W. 24TH St — 100 units 

35Th st — 66 units 

Seventy Eight at St Paul’s- 270 units 

duke- grace building— 30 units 

Virginian pilot building— 170 units 

Lofts at Front St— 258 units 

—————

American Cigar Lofts — 118 units 

ASPIRE— 85 units 

Market Heights— 164 units 

4 minutes ago, BFG said:

I grew up in the church at the bottom of that map. The story I was told is that the church sold the lot to the city back in the 70s.

The only time I remember any parking issues was on Sunday afternoons and maybe during Wednesday or Thursday night events. So for that reason I’m curious as to how this affects parking for two churches, even though it’s a pretty large lot. 

The design looks pretty solid given the project. 

From the presentation, they plan to let the church members park in the to-be-constructed city-owned parking garage. They said they will reserve 100 spaces for each congregation. 

[vdogg]

1 hour ago, varider said:

~270 apartments proposed+ small commercial space on the corner of St. Paul’s/Bute + a substantial city-owned parking garage to accommodate Scope / church overflow. Apartments are to be built out of steel rather than wood + 80% will be market rate with 20% affordable housing. 

This is MUCH closer to what I was expecting out of these developments downtown. Much more fitting of an urban area, and combined with the other developments, should aid in St. Paul's gaining a dense urban corridor feel. Since this one has an official name, it needs it's own thread. I'll add one shortly.

 

[Norf Native]

This is a nice development.  Is this a Buddy Gaddams project or some other developer?

[varider]

2 hours ago, Norf Native said:

This is a nice development.  Is this a Buddy Gaddams project or some other developer?

Bruce Smith

[zeppelin14]

I'm happy to see that parking lot finally get something built... It is long overdue. And it is actually a very nice design and not cookie cutter like some recent designs around Norfolk we've seen. It's a nice addition. It looks like something you would see in NoVa or D.C.

[EJ_LEWIS]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:54 PM, BFG said:

I grew up in the church at the bottom of that map. The story I was told is that the church sold the lot to the city back in the 70s.

The only time I remember any parking issues was on Sunday afternoons and maybe during Wednesday or Thursday night events. So for that reason I’m curious as to how this affects parking for two churches, even though it’s a pretty large lot. 

The design looks pretty solid given the project. 

I grew up in the Church right down Bute St. St. John's AME Church.  Real exciting what is happening to this part of Norfolk.  

[EJ_LEWIS]

Also my Daddy's dental practice use to be next door to St. John's at 555 Fenchurch St (torn down in 2003).   I have wondered many times what he would think about all of the construction going on in SPQ.   Many of his patients lived in Tidewater Gardens.  

[mintscraft56]

Now THIS! This what what Im talkin about! Not cutting corners and definitely not a ugly building! What stage of approval is this in? Gravity is getting uderway too so this is a good way to start making the outer edges of downtown feel like downtown. 

[Up2313]

Just a shame they are not looking to put the new arena right where scope is.  It really is already the best spot. 

[carolinaboy]

On 2/18/2022 at 5:46 PM, Up2313 said:

Just a shame they are not looking to put the new arena right where scope is.  It really is already the best spot. 

I agree 100%. I have never understood the desire to be out of downtown with an arena (flood-prone area argument be damned).

[vdogg]

At 48:24 you get an example of why modern architecture gets watered down in this city. Not everything has to be “historical”…

 

[varider]

https://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=1897&Inline=True

This project is on the planning agenda for next month 

[VBIllini13]

12 minutes ago, vdogg said:

At 48:24 you get an example of why modern architecture gets watered down in this city. Not everything has to be “historical”…

 

I get what you are saying, though in this case I think this was just one board member who didn't understand that the developer was simply following the guidance prescribed by the City. To me, it's an example of different City boards not understanding each other, not communicating, and having competing interests.

But when she said, "I feel like I'm in Virginia Beach..." oh brother!

[brianhollings]

This looks great! We need more modern developments like these.

[brikkman]

I don't know about all that other stuff, but I'm just so glad there is a ground level retail/store component. I'm so tired of just a building that goes dead after 6pm because there is no reason to be out unless you going to or from your apt. I think every building in that area should have a spot for a store, retail or some type... no more single building stand alone structures

[Ghentite]

On 2/21/2022 at 9:36 PM, brikkman said:

I don't know about all that other stuff, but I'm just so glad there is a ground level retail/store component. I'm so tired of just a building that goes dead after 6pm because there is no reason to be out unless you going to or from your apt. I think every building in that area should have a spot for a store, retail or some type... no more single building stand alone structures

Agreed.  This is the sort of project the city needs to continue shooting for even if it takes longer to happen. If they want to "expand downtown," mixed use is going to be essential, otherwise nobody will go there.  If they go with primarily residential (as we've been seeing) for St. Paul's, it's basically creating a border of residential and isolates current downtown. 

[Lluck002]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:30 AM, Ghentite said:

Agreed.  This is the sort of project the city needs to continue shooting for even if it takes longer to happen. If they want to "expand downtown," mixed use is going to be essential, otherwise nobody will go there.  If they go with primarily residential (as we've been seeing) for St. Paul's, it's basically creating a border of residential and isolates current downtown. 

What is the Zoning like in Downtown currently? They should rezone all of Downtown and the surrounding areas to a Mixed-Use designation that prohibits any new development from being Single-Use.

[mintscraft56]

On 2/18/2022 at 5:46 PM, Up2313 said:

Just a shame they are not looking to put the new arena right where scope is.  It really is already the best spot. 

True, Though isint scope somewhat a symbol of norfolk's Downtown? Im not saying scope is the most valuable but removing it could be like removing ICON tower. Although I might not be doing justice to ICON's value by relating it to scope. EDIT- I think it could be more relatable to removing the PNC tower instead because I now take notice to how extremely valuable ICON tower is to our downtown and Scope is not near such value, yet.

Edited February 27, 2022 by mintscraft56
Did not do ICON tower justice for its value.

[mintscraft56]

Now about that building. Im a little disappointed how they worry so much about "historical" stuff. Isint that the stuff they tore down a couple decades ago? Anyways I appreciate our history but needing everthing to revolve around it kinda kills the creative minds that some developers have in creating new buildings.

[Lluck002]

11 hours ago, NFKjeff said:

Both ICON tower and Scope have architectural value. The ICON tower was designed by Chicago's Owens, Skidmore, and Merrill, a very notable mid-century form, and was norfolk's first true "modern" skyscraper. Scope, designed by famous Italian archictect Pierre Luigi Nervi, is considered by many to be a classic example of brutalist acrchitecture (use of exposed concrete.) 

 

Skidmore, Owings, & Merrill is such an amazing architecture firm. I wish they did projects for moderate-sized cities still. But they’ve become so high-profile, designing everything from One World Trade Center to Burj Khalifa.

[mintscraft56]

On 2/27/2022 at 5:54 PM, NFKjeff said:

Both ICON tower and Scope have architectural value. The ICON tower was designed by Chicago's Owens, Skidmore, and Merrill, a very notable mid-century form, and was norfolk's first true "modern" skyscraper. Scope, designed by famous Italian archictect Pierre Luigi Nervi, is considered by many to be a classic example of brutalist acrchitecture (use of exposed concrete.) 

 

True though I was just trying to address the whole remove it and replace it thing. 

[BFG]

Make Scope into a convention center or entertainment venue like Dave and Buster's. I know it's a little redundant with the one in VB and Hampton, but that design is too cool to tear down just to build more overpriced apartments. 

Whenever the Military Circle arena opens, there's enough square footage to give Scope a second life as something else.

Or....food hall. Anyone?