James K. Polk Building/site lease from State

[Rick Dalton]

We could build a replica of the Sydney opera house on the PSC site…

[MLBrumby]

That would be a huge loss; so hoping there's a clear path soon. It sucks to be in a limbo state like that. The timing is very important as TPAC would need a place to go. What is planned for one of the last large sites at the Bicentennial Mall along the eastern side (5th Avenue), on the state parking lot south of the data center? 

[PruneTracy]

I had a post yesterday about building a new performing arts campus in and around Legislative Plaza, thought I would crunch the numbers on it. I go in the Polk Building regularly and have seen a few shows in the Polk and Jackson theaters but know nothing about TPAC's back of house outside what one can surmise from wandering around the ground floor of the building, so much of this is based on speculation and comparisons with other stand-alone (i.e., not under an office tower) venues.

The surface parking lot adjacent to the Snodgrass tower could serve as a location for a new opera house (a main theater comparable to Polk). At 41,000 square feet it compares favorably with newer venues around the country in terms of area and dimensions, so unless I'm missing something it seems to work. I'm not wild about it fronting the Capitol Hotel but it is what it is.

For the rest of this we can assume that Legislative Plaza gets torn out (as noted it is in poor condition and probably faces the same deferred maintenance as the Polk tower) and Capitol Boulevard is extended all the way to the Capitol, as it was previously. It can be a pedestrian walkway, it's all the same to me. But we'll preserve the terminating vistas. This would require some fill back to existing grade but there could be tunnels linking the venues. I wouldn't advise trying to use the space for floor area because if there's one lesson we should learn from all this it's don't build stuff under other stuff.

On the southeast corner we can put a theater or theaters comparable to Jackson. Or it can partially include TPAC admin space or whatever. The square footage is favorable with comparable theaters but at 110 feet the site is a bit narrow. I think it could work though.

The northeast corner is a black-box flexible space similar to Johnson. As far as I can tell there is plenty of space for this, these theaters are typically smaller. Maybe it could include admin space or a flex event/lobby area similar to how TPAC uses their existing space.

In between these could be an open-air portico or peristyle similar to the existing one at War Memorial (but open at both ends). That would preserve the views up Deaderick and allow for pedestrian circulation. The Vietnam and Korean war memorials could be left/moved to the open space to the south of the auditorium, or maybe they could be moved to Bicentennial Mall (where the WWII memorial already is) along with the military wing of the state museum.

There is plenty of grade change throughout the whole site so there are opportunities for street activation with cafes, retail space, etc. as well as the ability to hide loading docks and provide above- or below-ground connections between venues for back of house.

And of course it goes without saying that these should all be built in the Ionic school of Greek Revival style rivaling the nearby Capitol in terms of architectural quality.

[MLBrumby]

Nice!  Well thought out and fills out that "shameful" parking lot that replaced the original National Life building... and historical site of the first Grand Ole Opry broadcast. And could be reminiscent of the Lincoln Center. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by MLBrumby

[Sean blackdog]

Do u remember that 7 or 8 years ago? 
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2014/09/24/polk-building-evacuated-vibrations/16168113/

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/state-no-structural-concerns-with-polk-building?_amp=true

 

[donNdonelson2]

Having spent MANY weeks since 1995 working shows in both the Jackson and the Polk theatres, I pray that any new performing arts center be located away from the Capitol Hill area. That part of town is severely lacking in parking, restaurants, retail, bars, etc that make for a vibrant arts center. I would LOVE for new theatres to be designed into Nashville Yards, but I fear it’s too late for that dream. Either the Beaman or Reed developments would be acceptable locations, if there is sufficient parking and appropriate amenities.

TPAC was great for its time, but was/is lacking in many ways. For big touring shows it is very cramped backstage and the service areas and dressing rooms are antiquated. I hope and pray that a replacement facility is better planned to serve the community for many decades to come, wherever it is ultimately built.

Edited February 14, 2022 by donNdonelson2
Edit-antiquated, not anticipated-oops

[donNdonelson2]

1 hour ago, Bos2Nash said:

So before leaving my previous firm I had a conversation with a project manager who assisted in getting the State Museum built (from a project management standpoint) and he said it wouldn't be long before the building sees a change and he believed TPAC would no longer have a space in the building. It would be a HUGE loss for the downtown for TPAC to fold or lose its own space, but I guess they have also been trying to fundraise for awhile to get their own space with not much success. My hope is they would be able to find at least temporary homes with Belmont's new theater or even Schermerhorn, but I believe the performing arts are a huge player for the culture of our city and TPAC obviously plays a huge roll in that.

The symphony hall would not work AT ALL for touring Broadway shows! There is no front curtain, no wing space, no fly system for scenery & lighting, no orchestra pit, inadequate dressing rooms, etc. It is an outstanding symphony hall, but is not a theatre.

[Nash_12South]

Am I incorrect, but doesn't the Schermerhorn sort of act as an Opera house as well as Symphony hall? I don't see the state as eager to get rid of Legislative Plaza, even part of it. 

I think there is tremendous potential for some very rich folk to help fund a state of the art performance venue. I could see and all new building, going into this location with both parking, underground, new TPAC facilities and office space.  It could be seen as an attempt to "revive" the area. There would be a need to a 2-4 year temporary home for everything currently in TPAC but it would doable if it were spread out to the various universities.  There is a fairly decent amount of parking at the adjacent City Center Building as well as the Sheraton and kind of close Library, Doubletree, Phillips Plaza and Public Square garages.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Nash_12South

[donNdonelson2]

The Schermerhorn was designed specifically as a symphony hall. It does not have the technical capacity to present traditional opera or musical theatre.

[Bos2Nash]

57 minutes ago, donNdonelson2 said:

The symphony hall would not work AT ALL for touring Broadway shows! There is no front curtain, no wing space, no fly system for scenery & lighting, no orchestra pit, inadequate dressing rooms, etc. It is an outstanding symphony hall, but is not a theatre.

Thanks for the insight. I have zero knowledge on performing arts space, so Belmont and the Symphony Hall are the two examples I threw out in conversation with friends when talking about it.

[donNdonelson2]

Just now, Bos2Nash said:

Thanks for the insight. I have zero knowledge on performing arts space, so Belmont and the Symphony Hall are the two examples I threw out in conversation with friends when talking about it.

I have not been inside the new Belmont facility, but on paper it looks like it would probably accommodate some of the smaller Broadway musicals. Highly unlikely that anything on the scale of Wicked or Lion King would work in that space.

[MidTenn1]

The Performing Arts Center replacement is an East Bank project if there ever was one. Call it the Ingram-Icahn Performing Arts Center of Nashville and locate it on the Carl Icahn former scrap metal site.  It becomes a powerful cultural anchor for all the new development proposed in this district and provides instant credibility to the efforts to re-build such an important urban district.

Icahn could get his name on it for supplying the land (the City cleans it up) and Martha Ingram, if able, knows how to get things built (Schermerhorn and the Ingram Performing arts building at Vanderbilt.  The money comes from donors, the City and maybe the State.

[donNdonelson2]

I think one of the big questions about any project going into the scrap yard site is the time and cost involved in environmental remediation. A replacement for TPAC can hardly afford unexpected delays and possible enormous unexpected increases in costs.

Something significant and iconic SHOULD go there, but I don’t think it’s the best fit for a new performing arts center considering the time crunch that is likely in this situation.

Edited February 14, 2022 by donNdonelson2

[donNdonelson2]

Another problem I see with the PSC site is the potential for FLOODING!

[markhollin]

Tennessean coverage:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2022/02/15/tennessee-performing-arts-center-tpac-james-k-polk-building-nashville-redevelopment-repairs/6791695001/

[donNdonelson2]

I went for a long walk today and as I was strolling the area surrounding the Bicentennial Capitol Mall State Park I had a vision. A place for TPAC! The state already owns the land. New parking garages could provide for state workers and theatre patrons, preferably with sky bridges to TPAC so patrons wouldn’t have to dash through heat, rain, or snow to get to their seats before the curtain rises. Nearby restaurants and bars (and new ones, too) would offer convenient amenities. It continues the theme of cultural offerings along the perimeter of the park. 
 

What are your thoughts?

[nashville born]

As nondescript as this tower is, it has always added to the skyline, especially with it's dark appearance.  Any speculative thoughts on whether it will be replaced with another similarly significant (height-wise) or taller tower?

Edited March 16, 2022 by nashville born

[Pdt2f]

37 minutes ago, nashville born said:

As nondescript as this tower is, it has always added to the skyline, especially with it's dark appearance.  Any speculative thoughts on whether it will be replaced with another similarly significant (height-wise) or taller tower?

For all it’s flaws I actually don’t consider the tower nondescript. It’s black and grey stripes, non-flat roof, and “fat guy on short legs” look makes it pretty distinct to me. Despite its relatively humble height it stands out in the skyline, especially when you’re looking from the north or west during the day (if I’ve got my bearings right).
 

I could see something very tall going there. It’s a unique location in a part of town that’s already very built-up, unlike some locations along places like 2nd avenue  there’s no historical character of the area that would need to be maintained, and given land prices and the gradually shrinking amount of available locations downtown by the time the Polk tower is demolished it could be financially smart to expand upwards more than what we normally see.  I’m a layman with this though so I could obviously be completely wrong, and a Dennys could go there instead. 

[nashville born]

18 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

For all it’s flaws I actually don’t consider the tower nondescript. It’s black and grey stripes, non-flat roof, and “fat guy on short legs” look makes it pretty distinct to me. Despite its relatively humble height it stands out in the skyline, especially when you’re looking from the north or west during the day (if I’ve got my bearings right).
 

I could see something very tall going there. It’s a unique location in a part of town that’s already very built-up, unlike some locations along places like 2nd avenue  there’s no historical character of the area that would need to be maintained, and given land prices and the gradually shrinking amount of available locations downtown by the time the Polk tower is demolished it could be financially smart to expand upwards more than what we normally see.  I’m a layman with this though so I could obviously be completely wrong, and a Dennys could go there instead. 

Reading your reply makes me see that nondescript wasn't a good choice of words.  I guess I was trying to relay that it seems like more of a steady eddy type building than a flashy flora one.  What's funny is, one of your points (non-flat roof) refers to one of the thoughts I had about possibly losing this one.  I was like, one of the very few buildings without a flat roof and it's the one that's gotta go.  Good grief.

[Auntie Yock]

^Whatever goes there, the new design badly needs to reactivate the street level on Union (and Deaderick, for that matter).

[Baronakim]

17 minutes ago, Auntie Yock said:

^Whatever goes there, the new design badly needs to reactivate the street level on Union (and Deaderick, for that matter).

I don't think those streets will ever achieve the activation they had in the first half of the 20th.

[MidTenn1]

Does anyone know anything about this (from a video on the ESA Architects web site) (4:22).

What is intriguing about this, other than the spectacular design for the Performing Arts Center, is the Hamilton signage which leads me to think this plan was prepared in the last few years.  We know now that some surprises (like the Polk Bldg. being leased or sold or Titans Stadium being torn down or even Amazon coming to town) were known about for months before the official public announcement and plans to rectify or accommodate the 'surprise' event are already in progress.  Makes you go hmmm.  Why would this have been proposed?

 

[donNdonelson2]

3 hours ago, MidTenn1 said:

Does anyone know anything about this (from a video on the ESA Architects web site) (4:22).

What is intriguing about this, other than the spectacular design for the Performing Arts Center, is the Hamilton signage which leads me to think this plan was prepared in the last few years.  We know now that some surprises (like the Polk Bldg. being leased or sold or Titans Stadium being torn down or even Amazon coming to town) were known about for months before the official public announcement and plans to rectify or accommodate the 'surprise' event are already in progress.  Makes you go hmmm.  Why would this have been proposed?

 

Even if they spent big money to glamorize the lobby, the back areas of the building are substandard and poorly maintained. Build new and implode the old gal!

(The last three shows I worked, the toilets in the principal dressings rooms overflowed and the actors and costumes had to be moved to other portions of the building. It’s becoming an embarrassment to our city & state!) 

[MidTenn1]

Once again with the East Bank proposal, I measured the footprint of the current TPAC from Google earth and found it was about the size of a soccer field. So, it would fit in well to the proposed revitalization of the East Bank by occupying a relatively small piece of land. It shouldn't subtract much from all those billions the city and Adams family is set to make from all the valuable real estate. You could conceivably start construction without waiting for the current stadium to be demolished.

The Austin Texas PAC might be a good example, if not a tad small. It was completed in 2015 at $350 sf.

It could look something like this.

There are several ways to mitigate flooding with walls, extra ground elevation, or stilts. It's just a problem to be solved.

Edited May 17, 2022 by MidTenn1

[titanhog]

^^^Man!  You’re good at this!  Seriously a great looking design.  Hope the city / Titans are listening.

Edited May 17, 2022 by titanhog