New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[colemangaines]

1 hour ago, Melrose said:

a $200 million "clerical error"

[Bos2Nash]

The fact that story lumps the East Bank investment as part of the Titans stadium conversation is a bit disjointed and misleading to readers. It's not like the investment is completely revolved around the NEW stadium. The biggest agreement I have with the article is how many "missing pieces" there are in the information that is coming out.

Quote

After some confusion at this week’s Budget and Finance Committee meeting, Council Director Margaret Darby indicated that the city had made a $200 million "clerical error" and expects a $2.2 billion dollar price tag, making the Titans’ proposed new home the second-most-expensive stadium in the world.

Did anyone watch the video and find out where the "clerical error" was mentioned? Why wouldn't the publication mention where in a 1 hour and 20 minute video a single thing is mentioned??? While 2.2 billion is a lot of money – and saying it is the second most expensive in the world feels like it is intended to cause some frustration/stir the pot – that is not really out of the realm of normal with something this big. I don't think it needs to be that expensive (see early conversation in this thread), but depending on the concept designs + the environmental remediation + flood mitigation, it really all adds up.

The quote is at the very end of the article and is very accurate statement from the Mayor though.

Quote

After this story was published, a spokesperson for Mayor Cooper provided the following statement: "These infrastructure investments would be happening whether or not we build a new stadium."

The infrastructure for the stadium is already in place. The infrastructure would basically just be relocated as part of the stadium construction budget. The other billion dollars ($800 million I believe was stated over on the East Bank thread) is for the East Bank redevelopment which had its study going prior to the Titans stadium conversation. That investment is part of a city wanting underdeveloped land to be better utilized and making an investment to spur such development. 

[markhollin]

In February, the Titans asked Turner Construction Co., working with AECOM Hunt (NYSE: ACM), to calculate what a renovation would cost and project what it would cost to sustain the stadium through the end of the Titans' lease. The lease ends in early 2029, though it allows the Titans to extend it for another decade. The numbers Nihill presented run through that potential 2039 end-date.

Turner and AECOM found that a renovation, which likely would be done in 2026, would cost Metro taxpayers $945 million. All but 3% of that would be new work; taxpayers still owe the Titans $28.7 million of reimbursements for maintenance and upgrades the Sports Authority approved in recent years.

In a renovation, the Titans would spend $240 million to overhaul luxury suites and locker rooms, plus another $50 million to $80 million of amenities the team would fund, even though the team believes those items are Metro's responsibility under the lease. "This is as conservative as we could make it," Nihill said.

From that point, Turner and AECOM Hunt concluded that it could cost taxpayers another $894 million to sustain the renovated stadium for the following 13 years, should the Titans extend their lease.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/05/19/titans-metro-stadium-cost.html
 

[lmc123]

31 minutes ago, markhollin said:

In February, the Titans asked Turner Construction Co., working with AECOM Hunt (NYSE: ACM), to calculate what a renovation would cost and project what it would cost to sustain the stadium through the end of the Titans' lease. The lease ends in early 2029, though it allows the Titans to extend it for another decade. The numbers Nihill presented run through that potential 2039 end-date.

Turner and AECOM found that a renovation, which likely would be done in 2026, would cost Metro taxpayers $945 million. All but 3% of that would be new work; taxpayers still owe the Titans $28.7 million of reimbursements for maintenance and upgrades the Sports Authority approved in recent years.

In a renovation, the Titans would spend $240 million to overhaul luxury suites and locker rooms, plus another $50 million to $80 million of amenities the team would fund, even though the team believes those items are Metro's responsibility under the lease. "This is as conservative as we could make it," Nihill said.

From that point, Turner and AECOM Hunt concluded that it could cost taxpayers another $894 million to sustain the renovated stadium for the following 13 years, should the Titans extend their lease.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/05/19/titans-metro-stadium-cost.html
 

Interesting breakdown. So it sounds like we are back to the original conundrum we are in based on the lease agreement... Put lipstick on a pig or start fresh? 

[Melrose]

52 minutes ago, Logan McCoy said:

Interesting breakdown. So it sounds like we are back to the original conundrum we are in based on the lease agreement... Put lipstick on a pig or start fresh? 

And there are certainly multiple possible interpretations of what the (terribly written) lease requires.   We know the Titans' interpretation now.  What is Metro's interpretation and where is their supporting analysis?  I would imagine that an honest assessment by an outside party would say significantly less.  It certainly may not change anything or the decision that the Mayor's Office has clearly already made to push ahead,  but doesn't a conversation about this much money deserve an honest conversation about what the options are?  

[titanhog]

Sounds to me like they realized the original Titans stadium was the bare minimum we could build to get Adams to relocate the team from Houston…and that’s what we did…and that trying to somehow turn the bare minimum into something more substantial would be tough to do.  Plus…knowing how much the city and state would love for Nashville / state of TN to have a retractable roof stadium (for many reasons)…and of course, the Titans peeing down their legs hoping they could ‘get so lucky’…it seems obvious this choice was actually something they had all hoped for years ago.  

Whether or not the “books were cooked” to make the 2.2 Billion stadium look to be the smart move is my question.  Of course, the train is already halfway down the tracks and I don’t think it’s coming back.

[markhollin]

The Tennessee Titans want to tear up their current lease, said CEO Burke Nihill at a Sports Authority Authority meeting May 19. 

“What we have been trying to do is take the taxpayers of Nashville out of that risk position,” says Titans' President and CEO, Burke Nihill.

With the rise of inflation, Nihill shared that another year of bandaid solutions to Titans stadium issues could mean a 7% increase in projected construction costs.

Nihill said this explains, in part, the sense of urgency with which the Titans and Mayor Cooper’s office are handling the situation, hoping to have finalized plans by August or September.

The goal of their efforts has been to find a way to “rip up this lease,” Nihill said.

Nihill noted that there will be public contribution through sales tax — users of the stadium and its facilities, and the hotel motel tax. However, Metro’s general fund would be taken out of the equation for a new stadium.

“The expectation would be that the world’s biggest and best events would choose Nashville,” Nihill said, if a new stadium were built.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/05/19/burke-nihill-tennessee-titans-want-to-rip-up-this.html

 

"We have no plans to commission another study to tell us what we already know: renovating the stadium would cost Nashvillians hundreds of millions of dollars," Cooper spokesman TJ Ducklo said in a statement.

Titans CEO Burke Nihill said the team and Cooper are "clearly aligned on the mission" toward a new stadium and new lease. Nihill called it "an uncomfortable place to be as a team, with taxpayers on the hook."

“It is a bigger liability than any of us anticipated," Sports Authority member Dan Hogan told the Nashville Scene, after the May 19 public meeting where the Titans presented their estimate. "While it’s not entirely a surprise, it is shocking. … The point is that we're already on the hook. It’s a matter of how much relief we can get in a new deal."

At-large Councilman Bob Mendes called on Cooper's administration to do its own study. "This warrants a second opinion, no?" he asked on Twitter.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/05/20/cooper-titans-next-steps.html

[Rick Dalton]

Nihill is sharp, good guy to have running the process 

[samsonh]

30 minutes ago, markhollin said:

The Tennessee Titans want to tear up their current lease, said CEO Burke Nihill at a Sports Authority Authority meeting May 19. 

“What we have been trying to do is take the taxpayers of Nashville out of that risk position,” says Titans' President and CEO, Burke Nihill.

With the rise of inflation, Nihill shared that another year of bandaid solutions to Titans stadium issues could mean a 7% increase in projected construction costs.

Nihill said this explains, in part, the sense of urgency with which the Titans and Mayor Cooper’s office are handling the situation, hoping to have finalized plans by August or September.

The goal of their efforts has been to find a way to “rip up this lease,” Nihill said.

Nihill noted that there will be public contribution through sales tax — users of the stadium and its facilities, and the hotel motel tax. However, Metro’s general fund would be taken out of the equation for a new stadium.

“The expectation would be that the world’s biggest and best events would choose Nashville,” Nihill said, if a new stadium were built.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/05/19/burke-nihill-tennessee-titans-want-to-rip-up-this.html
 

Metro did not come up with their own independent evaluation of the costs of maintaining the current stadium, purely relying on the Titans. Also, they always forget to say that money from the East bank that goes to stadium debt costs is money that cannot go in the Metro General fund. And those areas will still require service, infrastructure, etc. 

[nashvylle]

1 hour ago, samsonh said:

Metro did not come up with their own independent evaluation of the costs of maintaining the current stadium, purely relying on the Titans. Also, they always forget to say that money from the East bank that goes to stadium debt costs is money that cannot go in the Metro General fund. And those areas will still require service, infrastructure, etc. 

Yes, 100% true. However, 50% of sales tax created in this new district is 100% better than the original lease in the 90s which puts the obligation on the general fund... 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by nashvylle

[Bos2Nash]

49 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

Yes, 100% true. However, 50% of sales tax created in this new district is 100% better than the original lease in the 90s which puts the obligation on the general fund... 

I agree with this statement at it's face.

Here is my question. A portion of the sales tax from the area that would otherwise go to the state will go into the stadium. Then another portion of the sales tax that would go to the city will go into the stadium fund. This is presumably with the 140 acre district that the state is outlining. From a developer standpoint, does special tax district such as this entertainment district gear future developments to focus on the stadium?

I ask this, because if the Titans/Metro/State want this land developed around the stadium within the next 10 years, how would they be able to guide the development of a true neighborhood like Nihill has gone on and on about if property owners (in this sense the Sports Authority presumably partnering with private developers - ie P3 projects) know they are attracting stadium goers? Why should the city residents be onboard with another entertainment district like lower broadway?

[nashvylle]

15 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

I agree with this statement at it's face.

Here is my question. A portion of the sales tax from the area that would otherwise go to the state will go into the stadium. Then another portion of the sales tax that would go to the city will go into the stadium fund. This is presumably with the 140 acre district that the state is outlining. From a developer standpoint, does special tax district such as this entertainment district gear future developments to focus on the stadium?

I ask this, because if the Titans/Metro/State want this land developed around the stadium within the next 10 years, how would they be able to guide the development of a true neighborhood like Nihill has gone on and on about if property owners (in this sense the Sports Authority presumably partnering with private developers - ie P3 projects) know they are attracting stadium goers? Why should the city residents be onboard with another entertainment district like lower broadway?

If it's the sports authority that partners with the private developers, then sports authority can't do anything until council approves the revenue bond issuance etc... where some limitations on the development can be agreed to (all within state law parameters). 

 

[nashvylle]

https://www.mainstreet-nashville.com/news/ceo-titans-would-take-on-that-burden-of-maintenance-at-new-stadium/article_85cac28a-e430-11ec-88eb-23fa706444fd.html
 

From this article, it appears The Titans are more inclined to want a dome, as the maintenance costs from the weather are a huge driver of the current costs. 
 

[rolly]

Wow if they really can get a Domed stadium... crossing fingers...

[titanhog]

21 hours ago, rolly said:

Wow if they really can get a Domed stadium... crossing fingers...

That's what they’ve been talking about all along.  It’s either going to be domed or retractable roof (I’m hoping for retractable roof so they can use grass…but a dome would be better than nothing.). If they don’t go with a cover, they should just rehab Nissan.

[Luvemtall]

Retractable would be the better way, then it’s the best of both. I’m understanding why Metro and the Convention folks would like for this to happen. Just recently the Kenny Chesney show was sold out and now CMA . Imagine packing 50-60 thousand people into stadium , then it storms on them . The weather this week is prime example of this, it might be acceptable for diehard football fans , to sit in extreme weather, but I wouldn’t like to watch a show of any type in the rain or snow. I don’t think it would sit to well, to tell a sold out show that they now have to leave because show is canceled due to weather. 

[wboarder44]

3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Retractable would be the better way, then it’s the best of both. I’m understanding why Metro and the Convention folks would like for this to happen. Just recently the Kenny Chesney show was sold out and now CMA . Imagine packing 50-60 thousand people into stadium , then it storms on them . The weather this week is prime example of this, it might be acceptable for diehard football fans , to sit in extreme weather, but I wouldn’t like to watch a show of any type in the rain or snow. I don’t think it would sit to well, to tell a sold out show that they now have to leave because show is canceled due to weather. 

That happened in July 2021 for the Garth Brooks concert.  The "Thunder Rolled and Lighting Strikes" and forced the show to cancel.

[Bos2Nash]

8 hours ago, titanhog said:

That's what they’ve been talking about all along.  It’s either going to be domed or retractable roof (I’m hoping for retractable roof so they can use grass…but a dome would be better than nothing.). If they don’t go with a cover, they should just rehab Nissan.

Right. But the article is alluding to the fact that Nihill is wanting a fixed dome rather than a retractable roof. Stating that the maintenance on the retractable makes it less desirable. That's a load of poppy cock to me! While yes it is more expensive to maintain, a retractable roof brings a certain added layer of to the stadium making the investment more worthwhile. 

Gotta remember too, State money ($500 million) goes away if they renovate Nissan.

[nashvylle]

6 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

Right. But the article is alluding to the fact that Nihill is wanting a fixed dome rather than a retractable roof. Stating that the maintenance on the retractable makes it less desirable. That's a load of poppy cock to me! While yes it is more expensive to maintain, a retractable roof brings a certain added layer of to the stadium making the investment more worthwhile. 

Gotta remember too, State money ($500 million) goes away if they renovate Nissan.

I think I read that the added cost of just having the roof be retractable was substantial, in the hundreds of millions, apart from the cost of maintenance associated with the roof and any weather related wear/tear when the roof is open. 

[titanhog]

It seems like teams are getting away from building straight-up domes and doing mostly retractable roofs.  Am I right about that?  Of course, some are building just normal outdoor facilities…but when it comes to enclosed stadiums…I’m thinking most nowadays are retractable roof.

[Luvemtall]

29 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I think I read that the added cost of just having the roof be retractable was substantial, in the hundreds of millions, apart from the cost of maintenance associated with the roof and any weather related wear/tear when the roof is open. 

Understandable, any moving parts are always a higher cost. Both in construction and maintenance, just would be nice to be able to enjoy on a clear day. 

[Rick Dalton]

Glass roof?

[Luvemtall]

18 minutes ago, natethegreat said:

Glass roof?

Funny, I was just thinking about that! Electro Glass, can switch between clear and completely dark. Can even become a movie screen, and custom made for any design or logos. Energy efficient, blocks 99% u v rays and looks good. 

[Bos2Nash]

33 minutes ago, natethegreat said:

Glass roof?

I would say a sort of this could be (possibly should be) strongly considered. Check out the impressive roof that went over SoFi Stadium. This roof not only coverts the playing surface, but also the two other major components of the stadium. This could push the stadium to a very impressive level.

 

[henburg]

49 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

I would say a sort of this could be (possibly should be) strongly considered. Check out the impressive roof that went over SoFi Stadium. This roof not only coverts the playing surface, but also the two other major components of the stadium. This could push the stadium to a very impressive level.

 

This would be incredible and SoFi is an amazing-looking venue, but it's also the most expensive NFL Stadium by a few billion dollars.  With Adams-Strunk reportedly liquidating assets in order to make this work at all, I wouldn't expect something like this.