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New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)


markhollin

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5 hours ago, Melrose said:

Yeah, that's not really compelling logic. 

 

You're talking, maximum, 2 Super Bowls over the next 25 years.  And yes, perhaps getting in the mix for 1 or 2 Final Fours. Fun in theory, sure, though with our total lack of public transit, also probably a nightmare for residents.   If the Titans want to take on all of the financial risk, great.  But Metro shouldn't be making any more bad stadium deals that result in  huge repair liabilities for the City down the road and/or potential bond liabilities that hinder Metro's ability to invest in things that have an impact beyond  4 weeks over the next 25 years.    Nashville's economic needs have to be assessed beyond whether Steve Smith gets to set a new beer sales record at his fake honkytonks....  

Nothing gets past this guy.

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Building a new stadium to land the Super Bowl in Nashville is a bad business decision.  That said, I think a retractable roof makes sense, and it needs to be looked into to see if it can be wrapped around the existing stadium, which is a very basic stadium.  IMHO it looks like the insert to a model of a domed stadium.  

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3 hours ago, Armacing said:

Cities steal teams with new stadiums all the time, so I don't get how that's different from chip manufacturing.  The sad truth is that publicly-funded stadiums are just subsidies for sports teams.  All I'm saying is if we're going to subsidize a business, lets subsidize a high-tech business that creates high-paying jobs and diversifies our economy.  We already have plenty of sports teams around here. 

If the titan's left tomorrow it wouldn't be a major problem for Nashville.  We already have a ton of tourism-focused businesses.  Most tourists never even set foot in the football stadium... their interests lie elsewhere.... And as we saw with tourism in general and conventions in particular during the pandemic, tourism is a non-essential industry that ebbs and flows with the economy.  Computer chips, on the other hand, are pretty much the definition of essential industry.

Personally….I’d love for both to exist and hoping we wouldn’t have to choose one over the other.  If a chip company wanted to set up shop here, hopefully we’d find a way to make that happen.  And…hopefully we’ll find a way to either upgrade this stadium or build a new one with minimal help from the public.

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Many post, many ideas, all respectable and legit. It’s one of those things ..(like transit, ) some see it as the best thing that could happen, others think it’s a waste of time and money. A chip factory or any other tech or large job producing entity would be a great thing, but as Titanhog mentioned, if they really want to come to Nashville the city and state would find a way for it to happen. Just as they did with the likes of Oracle, Amazon..etc. to have a new up to date stadium, with a roof of course, That would be a good investment also. Remember it’s the metro sports authority, not just the Titans that have a stake in this. Yes the Titans would play there, and be the headliner, but a multi use venue used for concerts (CMA Fest) , final fours , etc would be a large income producer and provide many jobs. Just because you might not like the Titans or football or any sports , doesn’t mean this is a bad thing. And as far as tourist go , let’s not fool ourselves… they come for the honky tonks of lower Broadway and the ever flowing alcohol and it’s associated mayhem. The law that the state passed last year , let’s tax collected from this Stadium District be used to pay back debts to build it , minimizing what tax paying citizens have to. I think we need to have patience and let this play out a bit more , see what is presented and then maybe we see it’s not that bad of a thing. Or it could be awful, and voted down. 

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The SEC football championship has been held in the Georgia Dome/Mercedes-Benz Stadium since 1994.  The current contract is up in 2026.  It was a 10 year deal signed in 2016.  I'd imagine the next deal would be another 10 as well and, I'm no engineer, but would say this mythical dome wouldn't be complete by then so you're then looking at 2036 to even have a shot.

 

There has been criticism of the SECCG being held on the Eastern side of the conference and not flipping between the East and West sides (NOLA Superdome).  I could see even more outrage from the Western teams if the game is moved to yet another Eastern controlled stadium (UT).

It would certainly elevate the current bowl that is held here and would get more of the neutral site beginning-of the-season games.

Lucas Oil's architectural design is an homage to the field houses/high school basketball arenas throughout Indiana.

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I’d be ok with Lucas Oil stadium’s design here.  I think it’s one of the cheaper designs and probably easier to construct with the moving roof compared to the more architecturally complex designs that are out there.  It would probably be cheaper to build here than most other designs. (of course, I’m just spitballing)

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Personally, I think Lucas Oil Stadium is the best looking NFL stadium today. Don't get me wrong, the Falcons, Vikings, Cowboys and Rams/Chargers are all good stadiums, but from an architectural standpoint, Lucas Oil is my favorite. Its got a classic style that could easily blend into a surrounding if it was every built around. More timeless and honestly prolly easier to maintain than some of the more modern stadiums mentioned above. Overall the best designed NFL stadium IMHO. The problem I see here is Lucas Oil has hosted exactly one Super Bowl in the 14 years since it was built. There are circumstances such as Indy always hosts the NFL Combine that may factor in to that, but I think a Super Bowl once every 15-20 years is the more realistic outlook for a Nashville stadium. 

Looking at an online inflation calculator the construction cost on inflation alone would be 955 million in 2021. With current construction costs and supply chain issues, I would honestly double that which would be hovering just shy of 2 billion. So if we were to look at the $7,500 per seat factor again, that would equal a bond issuance of $472.5 million. Factor in another $50 to $100 million for the spine road and subsequent infrastructure improvements for the East Bank we are getting close to $600 million investment for the city.  This is a massive investment for the city, and quite honestly, I think this would kill any chance of a MLB Stadium being built within the next couple years. The city just invested in a ballpark less than a decade ago, so justifying that cost on top of an NFL stadium is (and should be) DOA.

Something that will quickly come out of these conversations will be the groups like NOAH and SUN bringing up a CBA for any new stadium project. I think there will be hidden costs associated with a $2 billion stadium that will have ripple effects. The non-profits are clamoring on and on about the East Bank needs to be for the city and has been critical of the East Bank study because they "haven't been listened to", but they are asking for things that are too far down the road to be applicable to the study. A new stadium on the other hand is exactly where they should be focusing their attention though, because that is exactly where they will get the vast majority of their wants/desires for the city. I may not agree with their tactics, but any stadium project should carry a CBA on par with or exceeding that of the MLS Stadium.

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On 2/18/2022 at 7:57 PM, CandyAisles said:

Nothing gets past this guy.

Well, because "#titanup"  was so well reasoned,  it seemed to require a statement of the obvious.  If I missed the sarcasm, let me know.

On 2/19/2022 at 12:32 PM, CandyAisles said:

It’s not about “landing a Super Bowl”. It’s about land a Super Bowl…and a Final Four…and the SEC Championship…and another NFL Draft…and countless of big star concerts. We can go from using the stadium 8 times a year to multiple dozens of times.

Again, "Durrrrr,  build the stadium at any cost, all the events!" isn't real compelling stuff.    In any event, you list a couple events  that maybe Nashville could get in the mix for one over a couple decades, alongside all of the other cities that will build new stadiums to get in the same mix.  Not sure where the "multiple dozens" of events per year are coming from.    

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19 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

Personally, I think Lucas Oil Stadium is the best looking NFL stadium today. Don't get me wrong, the Falcons, Vikings, Cowboys and Rams/Chargers are all good stadiums, but from an architectural standpoint, Lucas Oil is my favorite. Its got a classic style that could easily blend into a surrounding if it was every built around. More timeless and honestly prolly easier to maintain than some of the more modern stadiums mentioned above. Overall the best designed NFL stadium IMHO. The problem I see here is Lucas Oil has hosted exactly one Super Bowl in the 14 years since it was built. There are circumstances such as Indy always hosts the NFL Combine that may factor in to that, but I think a Super Bowl once every 15-20 years is the more realistic outlook for a Nashville stadium. 

Looking at an online inflation calculator the construction cost on inflation alone would be 955 million in 2021. With current construction costs and supply chain issues, I would honestly double that which would be hovering just shy of 2 billion. So if we were to look at the $7,500 per seat factor again, that would equal a bond issuance of $472.5 million. Factor in another $50 to $100 million for the spine road and subsequent infrastructure improvements for the East Bank we are getting close to $600 million investment for the city.  This is a massive investment for the city, and quite honestly, I think this would kill any chance of a MLB Stadium being built within the next couple years. The city just invested in a ballpark less than a decade ago, so justifying that cost on top of an NFL stadium is (and should be) DOA.

Something that will quickly come out of these conversations will be the groups like NOAH and SUN bringing up a CBA for any new stadium project. I think there will be hidden costs associated with a $2 billion stadium that will have ripple effects. The non-profits are clamoring on and on about the East Bank needs to be for the city and has been critical of the East Bank study because they "haven't been listened to", but they are asking for things that are too far down the road to be applicable to the study. A new stadium on the other hand is exactly where they should be focusing their attention though, because that is exactly where they will get the vast majority of their wants/desires for the city. I may not agree with their tactics, but any stadium project should carry a CBA on par with or exceeding that of the MLS Stadium.

I think Nashville could do a Lucas Oil design, but emulate Ryman Auditorium. 

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3 minutes ago, Melrose said:

In any event, you list a couple events  that maybe Nashville could get in the mix for one over a couple decades, alongside all of the other cities that will build new stadiums to get in the same mix.  Not sure where the "multiple dozens" of events per year are coming from.    

 I would have to agree here. Bridgestone has proven to be a very serviceable and successful basketball arena. The capacity is well below what a Final Four would host, but that is again once every 10 to 15 years? The biggest thing to activate a stadium other than football will be events such as concerts, motorsports (ie Monster Trucks, MotoX, RallyX, etc) and even that is only once or twice a year. Even a year round concert series isn't going to rent out a new NFL sized stadium all the time due to the straight costs of those events. So we are left looking at 8 regular season football games, at best 2 playoff games (possibly a third every 15 to 20 years depending on Titans success), lets say 6 concert tours (2 dates each so 12 total concerts), 3 motorsport events a year (use the three listed above) and then whatever small rentals the group can get a year. That brings us up to a grand total of 25 total activations a year. Mind you a new stadium would also take us out of the running for the annual NHL Winter Classic games and special outdoor games (such as what's coming up on 2/26).

This level of activation only strengthens the fact that the city should use the MLS financing as a benchmark and work with a $7,500 per seat cap on financing. Not only that, but the Titans should be required to have a clause in their lease that would state if they were to break their lease and bail for another city - like the Rams did to St. Louis - then the Titans would have to make a one time payment that would repay the city immediately for all the bonds issued and offset costs via the entertainment district tax collection. The Titans and more specifically the NFL needs to be put on notice that while it is great for a team to have a nice and shiny stadium, it sucks as tax payers to always give them a very low interest path to achieve their high revenue.

Here are several articles that go back and forth about publicly subsidized (because even debt service is paid for it is still subsidized due to the crazy low interest rates) stadiums

Stanford expert from 2015

Economist that references the bid book of NFL requirements (hidden costs of a Super Bowl)

PBS Article from 2016 that shows bonds for stadiums (dating from 1986 to present) actually cost the American public $4 billion

I'm not saying we shouldn't investigate a new stadium, I think the feasibility needs to be looked at just like we do on many buildings, but I think that Titans lease needs to be iron clad with STEEP breaking clauses and I think every avenue needs to be explored on renovations as well. This weak reasoning of "they don't manufacture the window system anymore" (which is basic extruded aluminum that every manufacturer of window walls carries that line was prolly stopped though - extremely common practice) should not be used as an excuse.

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27 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

 8 regular season football games, at best 2 playoff games (possibly a third every 15 to 20 years depending on Titans success), lets say 6 concert tours (2 dates each so 12 total concerts), 3 motorsport events a year, and then whatever small rentals the group can get a year. That brings us up to a grand total of 25 total activations a year.

In addition to those, you would also have these annually:

Music City Bowl
4 nights of CMA Fest

Other annual possibilities:

Rodeo
HBCU Heritage football game
Fall Classic College Football kick-off game
International soccer contest  (crowd size too large for new Fairgrounds Soccer Stadium)
High School Football Championships (3 nights for the various divisions)
Religious gatherings 
X-Games 
Large convention gatherings in coordination with MCC
Watch parties for Titans road playoff games
Tie-in with Music City Grand Prix for 2 nights every summer
TSU Football once per season
Ides of March Festival (annual multi-artist concert)
Auto Show
Boat Show
Drum Corps/Marching Band Championships

Make a strong bid for every 2-3 year rotation:

NCAA Basketball Final Four (2 days)
SEC Football Championship

Once a decade kind of events:

Wrestlemania/Summer Slam
Super Bowl
World Cup Soccer
NHL Stadium Series
Boxing Championship
 

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7 hours ago, Melrose said:

Well, because "#titanup"  was so well reasoned,  it seemed to require a statement of the obvious.  If I missed the sarcasm, let me know.

Again, "Durrrrr,  build the stadium at any cost, all the events!" isn't real compelling stuff.    In any event, you list a couple events  that maybe Nashville could get in the mix for one over a couple decades, alongside all of the other cities that will build new stadiums to get in the same mix.  Not sure where the "multiple dozens" of events per year are coming from.    

Concerts primarily. You’d get more U2, Paul McCartney, Metallica, Taylor Swift, etc. Those acts need assurances from weather typically. But MOST importantly, the stadium would be arguably the best located stadium in the NFL (maybe second to the Superdome?) walking distance to the convention center and tons of hotels and entertainment? It’s not “if” we get any of those events…it’s “when”.  Likely more than once. Att Stadium is in Arlington. Sofi is in Inglewood. You get the idea. Many of the “downtown” stadiums are like Cincinnati and are shoved into awkward corners. Paying up for a new stadium is indenfensible…but not as much as letting the NFL leave town or to sink $1 billion in a really terrible building that was purposefully built on the cheap.

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