New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[DMilner]

9 minutes ago, markhollin said:

I was a guest on 102.5 The Game's Darren Daunic & Chase midday show today for 15 minutes to discuss possibilities about the new Titans Stadium concepts in regards to location options, price of land, costs to the city, etc.   After they finished with me, Darren McFarland and Derrick Mason (guest hosting this week) spent another 25 minutes going over what we talked about.

You can listen to a stream of it at this link.  Go to the replay section at the upper-center of the page, click on "Hour 1" and fast forward to 11:15 to 44:59.

https://www.thegamenashville.com/darren-daunic-chase/

BTW, I had a brain fart when I referred to the MLB Commissioner as Paul Manafort (who is currently in prison) instead of Rob Manfred.  G'uh.   Sorry about that! 

Listened to it live; great interview Mark!

[markhollin]

5 minutes ago, DMilner said:

Listened to it live; great interview Mark!

Thanks.  I've known Darren McFarland a long time, and this came up in a chat we were having the other day and he invited me to join them on air.  

[donNdonelson2]

16 minutes ago, markhollin said:

BTW, I had a brain fart when I referred to the MLB Commissioner as Paul Manafort (who is currently in prison) instead of Rob Manfred.  G'uh.   Sorry about that! 

Paul Manafort was pardoned, therefore no longer imprisoned.

[WebberThomas4]

Really good interview! 

[Bos2Nash]

53 minutes ago, markhollin said:

I was a guest on 102.5 The Game's Darren Daunic & Chase midday show today for 15 minutes to discuss possibilities about the new Titans Stadium concepts in regards to location options, price of land, costs to the city, etc.   After they finished with me, Darren McFarland and Derrick Mason (guest hosting this week) spent another 25 minutes going over what we talked about.

Nice interview Mr. President 

[smeagolsfree]

My Compliments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[grilled_cheese]

2 hours ago, markhollin said:

I was a guest on 102.5 The Game

Good job, brah.

[MidTenn1]

On 2/18/2022 at 12:49 PM, TheRaglander said:

Anyone think this would kill the FIFA World Cup "hosting" chances?   That's a lot of money the city could gain from that event.  I would like that new shiny stadium, though.  

I think this news kills Nashville's chances for hosting the 2026 World Cup Soccer games. It seems like Nashville's proposal was based on the upgrades recently proposed which I don't see happening now. The FIFA World Cup Committee will be making host city announcements soon and it now seems highly unlikely the city could provide assurances regarding stadium improvements that would give FIFA any confidence a facility would be ready. I personally doubt they would want the stadium 'as is' although it is serviceable. 

However, the original proposal submitted to the committee did propose that either Nashville or Baltimore as host some major 'workshops' which would draw quite a few soccer officials and fans from around the world. So, a (sad) consolation prize may still be possible. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by MidTenn1

[Thrill]

As a titans fan and someone who's father has season tickets, I'm torn on this. On one hand it'd be great to have a nicer stadium, on the other hand, the opportunity to do that was when the team moved here. I'll repost what I said in another titans forum:

 

Personally, I think it's absurd to construct a brand new stadium when ours is only 22 years old. I understand the stadium was bare bones even for the early 2000's and I also get the cost analysis makes sense to just build a new one at a certain point, but the wastefulness and environmental impact of essentially scrapping thousands of tons of steel, concrete, electronics, and plastic is just asinine.

If TN and the EPA weren't so weak, there would be immense environmental regulations to make these sorts of tear downs way more costly. What happens with all of that crumbled up concrete and rebar? Where do all those plastic seats go? A functional, forward thinking society should be able to assess more than just the cost of construction and look at the cost of disposing of the kilotons of concrete, steel, and plastic that currently make up our stadium. Renovating is obviously a much more efficient use of all resources. Building a new one is only a more efficient use of monetary resources. 

And also, imagine the crap storm this will cause if Cooper goes out and issues 1 billion in bonds after hiking everyone's property taxes to (ostensibly) pay off the last big wave of big capital expenditures. 

[bnacincy]

I think the current stadium should be renovated and not replaced-Nissan Stadium's location is absolutely perfect.

Expand the seating and put a retractable roof on it if you must-but I would prefer a roof like the new soccer stadium- it covers the seating but the players play in the elements as it should be.

[PruneTracy]

14 hours ago, grilled_cheese said:

OMG BUT WE NEED A NEW STADIUM

Not to split discussion from the new stadium thread but I went to the hockey game and walked around the Car Hole with an eye towards needed repair and renovation. The big question mark to me is still the idea that the concrete substructure needs to be replaced; as far as I could tell there was no sign of deterioration and in fact most of the concrete looked pretty good for its age and for being somewhat exposed to the elements. Of course I had also drank approximately $862 worth of adult beverages* at that point and after a Preds loss (or at all) most of the other fans on the ramps weren't particularly interested in my real-time and loud structural inspection.

* An alternative strategy would be to reduce the cost of concessions. Metro could subsidize 20 years worth of concessions, it would be cheaper and attendees would either be happy enough with the value to overlook the state of the stadium or too drunk to notice.

[BnaBreaker]

18 hours ago, grilled_cheese said:

OMG BUT WE NEED A NEW STADIUM

And Nashville should definitely pay billions to replace it's perfectly adequate football stadium instead of investing in public schools and the police department and building sidewalks and a mass transit system that actually functions!   I mean who in their right mind would care about having safe streets, educated children, and the ability to move about the city with ease when millionaire pro athletes have to play their eight home games per year without a dome over their heads?  Won't anyone think of the millionaire pro athletes?!?

Edited February 28, 2022 by BnaBreaker

[Nash_12South]

While I do not want to pay for an all new stadium, what is Nashville on the hook for, monetarily, in keeping the existing stadium up to date? Are we sure the hundreds of millions in repair costs are not needed? Would the Titans stay if Nashville does little to nothing in repairs? What are the costs of maintaining the stadium with no NFL? Are our chances for that 80 story dream tower better  with an embarrassingly lackluster stadium or with a gleaming showplace? 

We seem excited about a massively renovated airport, but wasn't the old one functional? Couldn't planes land and take off, just fine, with minimal updates. Those dollars could have funded a lot of charities....We renovated in large part to take the city/region to a higher level. I can see similar arguments regarding a new stadium. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Nash_12South

[Pdt2f]

6 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

While I do not want to pay for an all new stadium, what is Nashville on the hook for, monetarily, in keeping the existing stadium up to date? Are we sure the hundreds of millions in repair costs are not needed? Would the Titans stay if Nashville does little to nothing in repairs? What are the costs of maintaining the stadium with no NFL? Are our chances for that 80 story tower better  with an embarrassingly lackluster stadium or with a gleaming showplace? 

We seem excited about a massively renovated airport, but wasn't the old one functional? Couldn't planes land and take off, just fine, with minimal updates. We renovated in large part to take the city/region to a higher level. Those dollars could have funded a lot of charities....I can see similar arguments regarding a new stadium. 

Well an airport is an absolute necessity for a city, a football stadium is not. We all use the airport at one time or another and additional air service is huge in job creation and corporate relocations, but if you’re not a football fan the stadium is basically an expensive-to-maintain behemoth that is used 10-12 times per year and spends the rest of the time just sitting there empty surrounded by an ocean of surface parking lots. All for the benefit of a private corporation (NFL) that excels is pressuring taxpayers to foot their infrastructure costs, and primarily for the enjoyment of the Williamson county lawyers and proctologists who drive up and tailgate 8 times per year. The jobs it creates are overwhelmingly seasonal concessions and security positions, not the high paying jobs that increased air service tends to create. 
 

I also don’t believe the airport expansion is being paid for by Davidson county tax dollars. I believe it’s being paid for by a combination of airport-specific fees, although others may have more expertise of where that $ is coming from. 

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, Nash_12South said:

While I do not want to pay for an all new stadium, what is Nashville on the hook for, monetarily, in keeping the existing stadium up to date? Are we sure the hundreds of millions in repair costs are not needed? Would the Titans stay if Nashville does little to nothing in repairs? What are the costs of maintaining the stadium with no NFL? Are our chances for that 80 story dream tower better  with an embarrassingly lackluster stadium or with a gleaming showplace? 

We seem excited about a massively renovated airport, but wasn't the old one functional? Couldn't planes land and take off, just fine, with minimal updates. Those dollars could have funded a lot of charities....We renovated in large part to take the city/region to a higher level. I can see similar arguments regarding a new stadium. 

The city is currently on the hook for approximately $25 million in deferred maintenance on the stadium (this should not shock anyone). On top of that, the "first-class stadium clause" is also keeping the city in check for the remainder of the this lease as the city is required to uphold a certain standard - one which I have yet to see a definition for - for the Titans. The existence of any stadium has very little to do with the 80 story (don't really know what you are talking about with this height) tower either. The Titans, and NFL as a whole, are benefitting tremendously from the boom in Nashville/Middle TN and I would argue they are benefiting more from being here than the city is benefitting from their presence (probably only a slight swing, but more than some other cities can say). 

According to early reports, the renovation of the stadium was in the neighborhood of $600 million. Now the Titans (who would benefit greatly from those prices skyrocketing) are saying that renovations would be double that to about $1.2 billion, which has led to the discussion of a new stadium being pursued. Some of the reasons they are saying a new stadium would be required because the entire concrete structure needs replacing (really? see PruneTracy's comment above), the window system used around the stadium is not manufactured anymore (again, really? its extruded aluminum frames and glazing, nothing really special) and then they are saying the entire electrical system needs to be redone (seriously?! why would that be required??). Unless the definition of "first-class stadium" is calling for some of these specific things (and not the Titans wanting more electrical capacity for new scoreboards or such) than I would say no, the city is not on the hook for those renovations. The biggest downside to all of this is, the city owns the stadium and only leases it to the Titans, so it almost becomes a tenant versus landlord discussion.

Not gonna touch the airport comment because it was said very well by @Pdt2f.

[Nash_12South]

I think the beginning of my post got lost somewhere. I’m not in favor of a new (largely taxpayer funded) stadium. I’ve been 4 times to Nissan, 3 games and a concert. I didn’t say our airport  upgrades are bad or not needed or benefit many folks. I was (very) unsuccessfully trying to say that someone posts a picture of a spectacular event at Nissan as a way of saying  that it needs no upgrades is similar (to only me) as posting a pretty picture of the airport, prior to current renovations, as an indicator of it not needing improvements. Nissan will need improvements to keep us competitive for events it can host, like the airport needs improvements to keep the city competitive. Having said that I’ll try to emphasize that I don’t want unnecessary tax dollars going toward a new stadium or renovating the existing one.  
Apologies.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Nash_12South

[WebberThomas4]

I am going to wait to form an opinion on the new stadium until more details are released about financing, the surrounding development, etc. 

[titanhog]

4 hours ago, WebberThomas4 said:

I am going to wait to form an opinion on the new stadium until more details are released about financing, the surrounding development, etc. 

Yes.  If we were just going to build a new stadium and leave all the parking lots the way they are now, I’d agree it doesn’t need to be done.  Especially if there’s significant taxpayer $ on the hook.  However…if they figure out a way to totally revamp the east bank with office towers, residential towers, hotels, entertainment, restaurants, affordable housing, etc…and that provides a way to fund most of the stadium…I’d be more agreeable to the possibility.

[MLBrumby]

From the online Tennessean today.... https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson/2022/03/01/nashville-new-football-stadium-2-billion/6943679001/ 

The new price tag led Metro and Titans officials to consider another option: building a new stadium from scratch. Details on such a plan are slim and analysis is ongoing, but the idea has gained traction among some Metro officials.  Financing would come, over the long term, from private investors who partner with Metro and Titans officials to complete a new entertainment district surrounded by park-dappled neighborhoods and riverfront activities. 

[Melrose]

8 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

From the online Tennessean today.... https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson/2022/03/01/nashville-new-football-stadium-2-billion/6943679001/ 

The new price tag led Metro and Titans officials to consider another option: building a new stadium from scratch. Details on such a plan are slim and analysis is ongoing, but the idea has gained traction among some Metro officials.  Financing would come, over the long term, from private investors who partner with Metro and Titans officials to complete a new entertainment district surrounded by park-dappled neighborhoods and riverfront activities. 

Some commentary from Councilman Mendes on the quotes in this story.  Cooper getting his facts wrong not doing any favors to Metro's negotiating position ....

https://www.mendesfornashville.com/news/fact-checking

[CandyAisles]

On 2/28/2022 at 11:08 AM, BnaBreaker said:

And Nashville should definitely pay billions to replace it's perfectly adequate football stadium instead of investing in public schools and the police department and building sidewalks and a mass transit system that actually functions!   I mean who in their right mind would care about having safe streets, educated children, and the ability to move about the city with ease when millionaire pro athletes have to play their eight home games per year without a dome over their heads?  Won't anyone think of the millionaire pro athletes?!?

I agree that all of those things are priority over a new stadium...but you know it's not an either/or situation when it comes down to it. "I'd have more money for food if I didn't have to buy a bus ticket to get to work."  I'm seeing lots of people saying that the NFL doesn't provide any proof of economic impact...but that doesn't mean that it doesn't.  You can't gauge the mindset of someone moving here who might say "I'd get to see the Islanders play every year and sometimes the Jets" as a reason they would move to Nashville as oppose to Austion or Orlando.  I imagine plenty of people visit Nashville for a sporting event but decide to come back because they have a great time.  Again, agree that if I had to choose, I'd choose schools, mass transit, etc over NFL.  

[tragenvol]

Proverbial apples and oranges take from a fund accounting perspective:  if an entertainment district were developed, with private investment as well, to produce sales tax revenue to pay for  upgrades or a new stadium, those revenues would not exist without the new stadium or the upgrades.  The city would not be taking funds from the general fund prioritizing the Titans over sidewalks, education, police or a million other things that matter more.  A negative might be a reduction in the city's borrowing power or any liability outside restricted/dedicated sales tax revenue from the entertainment district.

[MLBrumby]

Take a look at what Cincinnati did to their riverfront (I think they even call it "the Landings") where they demolished an existing "cookie cutter" stadium and built separate baseball and football stadiums nearby. They used the footprint of the the old stadium to build a massive parking garage under blocks of condos and restaurants. Someone here recently did some math, and it's not a stretch to think a lot of the financing could be underwritten by private development. I suspect the details are what is being hashed out between the various parties. I just don't know if a revamp with a retractible roof will even be looked at seriously.  I hope they're getting deep dives on all viable options, but I suspect Nashville and the Titans already agree that they're going to get a brand new roofed stadium. I think the discussions are more how to sell it to the public. 

[Thrill]

2 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

Take a look at what Cincinnati did to their riverfront (I think they even call it "the Landings") where they demolished an existing "cookie cutter" stadium and built separate baseball and football stadiums nearby. They used the footprint of the the old stadium to build a massive parking garage under blocks of condos and restaurants. Someone here recently did some math, and it's not a stretch to think a lot of the financing could be underwritten by private development. I suspect the details are what is being hashed out between the various parties. I just don't know if a revamp with a retractible roof will even be looked at seriously.  I hope they're getting deep dives on all viable options, but I suspect Nashville and the Titans already agree that they're going to get a brand new roofed stadium. I think the discussions are more how to sell it to the public. 

I'm afraid you're probably right. 

[Melrose]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:55 PM, Bos2Nash said:

 On top of that, the "first-class stadium clause" is also keeping the city in check for the remainder of the this lease as the city is required to uphold a certain standard - one which I have yet to see a definition for - for the Titans.

That definition and the contract is discussed here:  https://www.mendesfornashville.com/news/fact-checking

Regarding the East Bank overall,  the reality needs to be acknowledged that East Bank development is happening regardless of what option is chosen for the stadium.  Oracle and River North are seeing to that by themselves.   So  whether it is a renovation (to whatever level) or a new stadium (Chevy version or Cadillac version),  it seems that Metro does not need to go too far "sweetening" the pot with incentives,  as opposed to overseeing a smart plan and making smart infrastructure investments  and having the Titans and private developers pay handsomely for the privilege of getting to partake.