New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[grilled_cheese]

15 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

but I suspect Nashville and the Titans already agree that they're going to get a brand new roofed stadium. I think the discussions are more how to sell it to the public. 

I hope every one of the titan$ division rivals win multiple superbowls while the titan$ remain 0 for 1 for the rest of their existence.

[Luvemtall]

6 minutes ago, grilled_cheese said:

I hope every one of the titan$ division rivals win multiple superbowls while the titan$ remain 0 for 1 for the rest of their existence.

Sounds like the grilled cheese has hardened your arteries, some harsh words and negative stuff going on there. Welcome to the world of politics and big business, it’s all around us! Yes , there’s many issues that the city needs to address as there is in every town and city though out our nation. But we haven’t even heard what the  proposal is yet. Might come out completely different then what everyone is thinking, the Titans winning a Super Bowl is a huge positive for the city as it is anywhere else. 

[nashvylle]

Are there any metro offices that could be incorporated into the new stadium/complex where Metro could rent for free? That could save the city millions each year. 

[Luvemtall]

3 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

Are there any metro offices that could be incorporated into the new stadium/complex where Metro could rent for free? That could save the city millions each year. 

That’s a good idea, positive thinking. 

[Bos2Nash]

I read Mendes' statement and he alludes to 10 facilities that are "comparable facilities" but then doesn't mention them. I would find it hard to believe that when the lease was written they would know what stadiums would be comparable 10 years down the road. So it gives a bit of information, but definitely isn't painting a clear picture.

The mixed use stadium has also been a newer model that sports teams appear to be embracing. I think it would be a wonderful idea if we could incorporate civil or public amenities into structures like stadiums. 

[Nash_12South]

I may step into again, but the stadium and it's facilities are used for other things besides football games, as has been acknowledged by others. Obviously concerts, but I've been invited to small scale trade shows and charity events to name a couple (never went). A new stadium would certainly expand those opportunities and give them some footing to challenge or compliment Music City Center/Bridgestone - on a year round basis, regardless of weather.  Metro offices or sports related companies could be attracted to office space, if included. I do understand that it would likely never pay for itself. If it sat off 840, in the middle of nowhere,  I wouldn't care too much as to it's condition.  But it currently sits as a focal point of downtown. Every mover and shaker, prospective investor, possible new company search committee, that comes to town, is shown it, if not toured through it. It matters that it looks as good as we can afford it to look. No one makes decisions to relocate a company or invest billions in Nashville, based on Nissan Stadium, but just my opinion, it does play it's part. It can either impress or not, when stacked up against our competition. Again, not endorsing $2 billion or taxpayers footing a dime more than we have to, but it will cost a lot to do anything as we are finding. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Nash_12South

[Licec]

I saw somewhere there was a Music City Center 2 suggested because they said they were losing very large conventions. They even had a rendering. It was smaller than City Center One and would have been used to augment City Center One.

It would not surprise me at all if they have some convention component in mind for any new stadium.

[markhollin]

Comparing costs and results of other NFL stadiums built in last decade, plus a few that are in the pipeline:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/nfl/titans/2022/03/01/tennessee-titans-new-nfl-stadium-future-super-bowl/6836028001/?utm_source=tennessean-Daily Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_briefing_greeting&utm_term=newsletter_greeting&utm_content=1056TN-E-NLETTER65


Titans' GM Jon Robinson's thoughts on a new stadium:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/03/03/nashville-s-greatest-engineering-marvels.html

[grilled_cheese]

21 hours ago, Licec said:

I saw somewhere there was a Music City Center 2 suggested because they said they were losing very large conventions. They even had a rendering. It was smaller than City Center One and would have been used to augment City Center One.

It would not surprise me at all if they have some convention component in mind for any new stadium.

So they also just happened to build the convention center too small.

Socialism for the rich.

And not to mention the football org is owned by a boomer that inherited the thing.

It never ends.

[Rick Dalton]

“Socialism for the rich” isn't how I’d frame it. I’d think of it as an equity deal with multiple investors. The different investors have different objectives.  If the city invests in something like this, they’re not doing it out of their kindness of their heart or giving a handout. They’re doing it because they think they can earn an appropriate return on their investment, even if indirectly. For example, if the city builds a convention center/stadium, they may not technically break even on their investment. But will they will do is raise the attractiveness and potential of the city,  juicing the hotel industry, restaurants industry, etc. Public funding has this luxury, while private funding does not (private funding MUST earn a dollar for dollar return).

Like it or not, Nashville is a tourism destination. The city’s economy is expanding as healthcare/tech grows, but tourism is vital to the city. As such, investments in tourism/spectacle are appropriate. I’d agree than Nashville needs to allocate more resources to public infrastructure / homelessness / etc. But I think of that as a completely different pool of capital.

[SumnerCountian]

I will say this, build a new stadium or upgrade the current one. It doesn't really matter because if neither of those things happen then the Titans will be gone. What does that do to tax revenue coming into the city? And for those of you that are pointing out many more pressing issues that Metro Nashville needs, answer me this. If not one dime of taxpayer money goes into the stadium project, where do you actually think that money will go? We as a city are 20  years behind on any workable regional transit system. Do you think that will change? Be honset. Are the schools going to receive anymore money and suddenly start producing better educated students? Are city employees going to get 10 or 15% raises? None of these things happens in a vacuum and foregoing one does not predetermine that the next one on the list will occur. Money is what make all of these things possible. How do cities get money? Taxes.What brings in tax revenue? Y'all tell me. I am not arguing for or against anything. Just saying that doing without one doesn't automatically give us any of the others. 

[Armacing]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:12 PM, natethegreat said:

“Socialism for the rich” isn't how I’d frame it. I’d think of it as an equity deal with multiple investors. The different investors have different objectives.  If the city invests in something like this... They’re doing it because they think they can earn an appropriate return on their investment... they may not technically break even on their investment... But what they will do is raise the attractiveness and potential of the city,  juicing the hotel industry, restaurants industry, etc.

So essentially you are arguing that the government should arbitrarily funnel the citizen's scarce capital into the tourism industry.  And since money doesn't magically materialize out of thin air, this must *necessarily* come at the expense of other sectors of the economy.  I posted earlier that if the government is going to play the role of investment banker, the least they could do would be to invest in something that creates jobs far better than the minimum wage service jobs in the tourism industry.  I suggested semi-conductor manufacturing, which would assuredly beat the pants off of tourism in terms of raising the attractiveness of the city, providing jobs, and funding a tax base that supports increased infrastructure spending.

What's more attractive than a city where you can be entertained?  One where you can make lots of money doing business there.  And that's what high-tech manufacturing would bring to Nashville.

On 3/3/2022 at 8:40 PM, SumnerCountian said:

...answer me this. If not one dime of taxpayer money goes into the stadium project, where do you actually think that money will go...

As long as they don't spend it on the stadium, that scarce capital will be deployed in 500,000 investments around the city and earning returns far superior to any investment the Metro Government could ever dream of making.  Just to make sure this is super easy to understand:  There is no possible way according to the laws of physics that any committee, or council, or commission, or any other body of decision-makers within the Metro government could ever possess, or act upon,  the sheer quantity of market knowledge currently being employed by the 500K+ residents of Nashville as we speak.  Why is that important, you might ask?  Because the success of an investment in terms of ROI is directly related to how much market knowledge investors utilize when making their risky investment decisions.  Market knowledge is always incomplete when making an investment, but the more you have, the better chance of turning a profit and avoiding loss.  This is why every centrally-planned socialist/communist country that ever existed is characterized by mal-investment, waste, and destruction of wealth.

Are the many investments made by Nashvillians with their money highly visible?  No.  Are they profitable.  Yes.

Is the stadium highly visible?  Yes.  Is it profitable?  No.

[grilled_cheese]

But but but but but

 

TERR-ism

 

Like that never happened before the stolen football franchise showed up.

[nashvylle]

16 hours ago, Armacing said:

So essentially you are arguing that the government should arbitrarily funnel the citizen's scarce capital into the tourism industry.  And since money doesn't magically materialize out of thin air, this must *necessarily* come at the expense of other sectors of the economy.  I posted earlier that if the government is going to play the role of investment banker, the least they could do would be to invest in something that creates jobs far better than the minimum wage service jobs in the tourism industry.  I suggested semi-conductor manufacturing, which would assuredly beat the pants off of tourism in terms of raising the attractiveness of the city, providing jobs, and funding a tax base that supports increased infrastructure spending.

What's more attractive than a city where you can be entertained?  One where you can make lots of money doing business there.  And that's what high-tech manufacturing would bring to Nashville.

As long as they don't spend it on the stadium, that scarce capital will be deployed in 500,000 investments around the city and earning returns far superior to any investment the Metro Government could ever dream of making.  Just to make sure this is super easy to understand:  There is no possible way according to the laws of physics that any committee, or council, or commission, or any other body of decision-makers within the Metro government could ever possess, or act upon,  the sheer quantity of market knowledge currently being employed by the 500K+ residents of Nashville as we speak.  Why is that important, you might ask?  Because the success of an investment in terms of ROI is directly related to how much market knowledge investors utilize when making their risky investment decisions.  Market knowledge is always incomplete when making an investment, but the more you have, the better chance of turning a profit and avoiding loss.  This is why every centrally-planned socialist/communist country that ever existed is characterized by mal-investment, waste, and destruction of wealth.

Are the many investments made by Nashvillians with their money highly visible?  No.  Are they profitable.  Yes.

Is the stadium highly visible?  Yes.  Is it profitable?  No.

$2BN investment in semi-conductors would have an incredible ROI, as well as bring in a flood of transplants who displace everyone here. no one in Nashville currently has that skill set and it’s much easier to relocate people now than teach nashvillians for the ROI to be maximized. 
 

And Oakland, St. Louis, San Diego haven’t necessarily skyrocketed in economic output since their teams relocated. 
 

I am not saying fund $2BN, I am for creating a new tax base, from vacant underutilized and unused parking lots to help pay for renovations or a new stadium. Hopefully community needs and affordable housing are incorporated into the new development as well. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by nashvylle

[PleinNash]

If we don’t do something, Garth Brooks will have to play the exact same songs in the exact same stadium in 2031… for Brooks’  “The 27th Annual Comeback, This Might Be One of Your Last Chances, No Seriously Stadium Tour”. 
 

And if it don’t have a roof, the folks still won’t get a rope swing. 
 

**Think of The Children**

Edited March 6, 2022 by PleinNash

[Armacing]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:31 PM, nashvylle said:

$2BN investment in semi-conductors would have an incredible ROI, as well as bring in a flood of transplants who displace everyone here. no one in Nashville currently has that skill set and it’s much easier to relocate people now than teach nashvillians for the ROI to be maximized. 

I'm not so sure locals would be locked out of those roles.  In addition to the many skilled trades employed in maintenance, I think the technician jobs would also be open to locals.  Remember the ill-fated Hemlock Semiconductor plant in Clarksville?  Hemlock had plans to fully fund a semi-conductor manufacturing program at Austin Peay to  create a pipeline of local skilled workers.  I bet something similar could be done with TSU or Nashville State Community College... Heck - throw some of that $2B into skills training.  It bears repeating:  The alternative you are proposing is literally to have people squirting mustard onto hot dogs and pouring beer into plastic cups for a handful of days each year.  I'm talking about year-round high-skilled labor with the upper-echelon of engineers being transplants from elsewhere (but they also raise Nashville's profile as a place where skilled workers can be found)....  And don't forget all the other tech firms that will be attracted as well.

Let's cut out the middle man!  Instead of paying for a sports team and hoping the executives at some company will be impressed by the stadium and move their corporation here, let's just pay the construction cost for companies to bring their high-skill/high-pay manufacturing jobs here.  Even building a 50-story skyscraper and selling it to a bank for half price if they relocate their headquarters to Nashville would be a better deal because at least it would generate tax revenue and bring lots of high-paying jobs.  If the goal is to build out the East Bank, just drop the stadium entirely and use $2B to fund construction of 10 skyscrapers costing $200M each and sell them at discounted prices contingent upon corporate relocation.  Boom!   Density, jobs, tax revenue, built-in demand for downtown residential units.  And I will personally guarantee the ROI far exceeds the stadium... if not, then I owe you a coke!

[lmc123]

Would a new stadium in parking lots A-C impact the new East Bank 2nd Street Corridor realignment up to Jefferson? 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Logan McCoy

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, Logan McCoy said:

Would a new stadium in parking lots A-C impact the new East Bank 2nd Street Corridor realignment up to Jefferson? 

We actually talked about that during our meetup this past weekend. The stadium discussion is going to put the spine road on hold. If those parking lots are chosen then the new proposed spine road alignment will have to me moved (I'm sure Kimley Horn will gladly take the additional service design fee for that).

Was having the discussion with @DJIIIafter the meetup and my opinion is the location of the current stadium is the ideal location honestly. Pushing a new stadium to the east is essentially asking for an extension of Lower Broadway. The stadium serves as a GREAT termination of everything that is going on on Lower Broadway and by placing the stadium between the Honky Tonk district and any new districts that is created on the East Bank. This obviously creates a logistical problem for the Titans because this would require imploding the existing Nissan Stadium without a new stadium in place. My suggestion would be to temporarily move the Titans into the Nashville SC stadium (see Chicago Bears, Las Vegas Raiders, Los Angeles Chargers for temporary stadiums with smaller capacities) for two years while a new stadium is built. For me, I would love to see a new stadium better aligned with the end of Lower Broadway - without compromising the Pedestrian Bridge of course - to provide a really impressive backdrop for Lower Broadway. I think a road diet of the Woodland Street bridge to improve pedestrian and other multi modal initiatives would be served well as part of a stadium project (think of it like part of infrastructure improvement around the stadium).

[titanhog]

More info on what the Titans’ organization is thinking...

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2022/03/10/tennessee-titans-lay-out-urgent-case-new-downtown-nashville-stadium/6986899001/

Tennessee Titans President Burke Nihill pitched his vision Thursday for a new downtown Nashville NFL stadium, surrounded by a thriving neighborhood built to cater to residents rather than tourists.

Nihill's team is working with contractors and Metro officials on a final pitch to Metro leaders on the cost and designs of a new stadium directly east of the existing 1997-built Nissan Stadium. 

The vision centers around an entirely new neighborhood built for residents to complement the city's current character.

While there will be commercial areas with sports bars and such, the focus will be on resident-supported businesses and homes. It will not be a sport-entertainment district like Southern California's LA Live, which is filled with large national franchises that are entirely sports-themed.

"We still believe, to the extent that we have any influence, that we're converting 100 acres of parking into Nashville’s next great neighborhood that’s built around locals from all income levels, races and experiences," Nihill said. "We would love for it to be a really vibrant and celebrated experience with a lot of green space."

Metro and team officials hope to partner with investors to lease a large swath of city-owned riverfront land to finance the new stadium. It would be built where parking lots A, B and C now stand between Nissan Stadium and the highway.

Financing details remain quiet amid ongoing negotiations, though the Titans are expected to split the bill with Metro government, which will ultimately be repaid by the district's future tax revenue.

A Tennessean review of recent stadium deals around the country foundthat a new venue in Nashville will likely cost at least $2 billion. 

But Nihill warned that costs are rising quickly with high inflation, and they have to finish the work on a tight schedule in order to be ready to potentially host the World Cup in 2026. 

"I certainly don't wan to spend any more, but I also don't want to be here in 15 years having a difficult discussion about concrete," Hogan said. "If this stadium was built to the minimum level of expectation, are we once again going to build to the lower end?"

Nihill ensured the board the cost savings would be in the "right places," and that stadium infrastructure would be much more sturdy. 

"We are trying to win on character, no opulence or features," NIhill said. "We don't have to have bright-and-shiny through the whole place."

Once it starts, construction will take 31 months. But that will only begin after a stadium deal and designs are finished, which could take more than a year, he said. 

The faster the deal is done, the better, as inflationary increases continue to weigh heavy on development costs. 

"We're trying to move wisely but with a sense of urgency," he said. "There's a path forward that, if we have alignment by the fall, we could have a new stadium open (by 2026). It's aggressive, but we believe it's in play."

[smeagolsfree]

Looks like this may be moving forward. I was not looking at the Tennessean, but saw this in the national media. It seems to be a big deal.

[japan]

Could the relocated TPAC end up as part of this complex?

[Luvemtall]

9 hours ago, japan said:

Could the relocated TPAC end up as part of this complex?

IMHO , that would be a very smart move. This whole area of the stadium and PSC is basically a blank canvas, for which upon great vibrant neighborhoods can emerge. If done correctly with a complete vision in place, we could see a city within a city with housing for every scale , thriving local businesses, parks and green space , family entertainment and theater districts with multimodal transit options and a usable public riverfront. The opportunity is there, question is how does Metro deliver.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Luvemtall

[TheSound]

It would be freakin' astounding if there was a new $2 billion stadium on the east bank completely finished 4 years from right now.  Kinda hard to see that happening, but where there's a will there's a way.  I wonder if there's been any closed-door discussions with FIFA about whether having a new stadium would make us pretty close to a lock for the WC.  That seems to be the main thing driving the aggressive timeline.

[Melrose]

13 hours ago, titanhog said:

We still believe, to the extent that we have any influence, that we're converting 100 acres of parking into Nashville’s next great neighborhood that’s built around locals from all income levels, races and experiences," Nihill said. "We would love for it to be a really vibrant and celebrated experience with a lot of green space."

This is certainly the right message to be starting from, but of course the devil is in the details. That "to the extent we have any influence"  is a very big qualifier.....  

[markhollin]

NBJ with another interview of Titans' CEO Burke Nihill on the new stadium campus concept:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/03/11/titans-ceo-burke-bihill-rejects-east-bank-becoming.html