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New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)


markhollin

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3 hours ago, Logan McCoy said:

You are correct. However, the State didn't tell Metro to do irresponsible TIF deals after they had already started seeing waves of success. That has hampered metro's finances more than the State handcuffing metro. The State is driven by sales tax so, of course more tourism means more money. 

Agreed. No excuse for irresponsible funding. Just like there is no excuse for the irresponsible legislation that has handcuffed the city with affordable housing. The blame has gone both ways. All I meant was I hope the State doesn't do something that basically forces Metro's hand.

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29 minutes ago, Armacing said:

And then when the tax payer yells back "Hey, I thought you guys were smart business-people.  Why don't you figure out how to fund it yourselves??", he has to reply "Yeah, we already did the math and it only works if you pay for it".   LOL!!!

We don't even know what the financing package is yet. If it's general obligation bonds paid by property taxes, then yes, that's correct. If it's revenue bonds paid by the team and new taxes in a newly created district, that's different. 

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3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Just a little FYI for those who think the taxes here are outrageous. My sister who lives in Connecticut, has a 40 year old 1250 sq ft house on 1/5 acre in a small suburban neighborhood. She pays 1000 dollars a month for her house taxes , that’s right people 12,000 dollars a year for just her home taxes!! They also have personal property taxes ( cars, motorcycles, rv, etc) her new car cost 550 dollars a year in taxes. So , I’m really thinking that for all the gripes about the taxes here,,, if you only knew. 

Wasn't Connecticut on the verge of bankruptcy or something a few years ago?  I guess they found a way to solve their budget problems.  I love it!  They get what they deserve.

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^^^ yes they had some issues, but the taxes were not the answer. They have been like that for decades. But their schools and services are very top notch. They are set up differently then down here, the towns and cities are their own governments, the counties really don’t have any governmental responsibility. Like there’s no county roads or schools or services or taxes paid to them . Each town or city is responsible for their own schools, roads etc. so as a example Nashville, Madison, Hermitage ..etc, would all be responsible for their own services and such. 

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13 hours ago, nashvylle said:

We don't even know what the financing package is yet. If it's general obligation bonds paid by property taxes, then yes, that's correct. If it's revenue bonds paid by the team and new taxes in a newly created district, that's different. 

Oh this has all been total speculation haha! I'm basing all my concerns/opinions on the soccer stadium deal along with my experience. I do get concerned about the "special tax district" because I am worried it would hamper certain developments in favor of others. We already have a special tax district across the river from the stadium that was designed and implemented to bring in tourists and conventions and now we are talking about essentially a second one of those. There are other circumstances such as zoning protections, but we haven't seen anything that would create a sustainable neighborhood in the first tax district, why should we expect anything different another one? I find it a little crony like for the CEO of the beneficiary of the first tax district to be calling for another tax district that will greatly benefit another very wealthy organization in the city.

What I think we may end up seeing around the stadium (and possibly on the East Bank as a whole) is a tax district where residents would pay more taxes for certain upkeep - ala The Gulch - but how much affordable housing has been built in the Gulch? How would the stigma of affordable units being exempt from that additional tax (because they should be) be taken and reflected in the purchasing/renting of non-affordable units?

We all keep saying "we must keep the burden off the taxpayer", but by creating additional special tax districts that funnels tax funds that otherwise would go into the general to fund things such as roads, schools, transit (GASP), essential services, etc. we are actually still putting burden on the tax payers. All of this to keep a financial burden off some very wealthy people. 

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6 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

Oh this has all been total speculation haha! I'm basing all my concerns/opinions on the soccer stadium deal along with my experience. I do get concerned about the "special tax district" because I am worried it would hamper certain developments in favor of others. We already have a special tax district across the river from the stadium that was designed and implemented to bring in tourists and conventions and now we are talking about essentially a second one of those. There are other circumstances such as zoning protections, but we haven't seen anything that would create a sustainable neighborhood in the first tax district, why should we expect anything different another one? I find it a little crony like for the CEO of the beneficiary of the first tax district to be calling for another tax district that will greatly benefit another very wealthy organization in the city.

What I think we may end up seeing around the stadium (and possibly on the East Bank as a whole) is a tax district where residents would pay more taxes for certain upkeep - ala The Gulch - but how much affordable housing has been built in the Gulch? How would the stigma of affordable units being exempt from that additional tax (because they should be) be taken and reflected in the purchasing/renting of non-affordable units?

We all keep saying "we must keep the burden off the taxpayer", but by creating additional special tax districts that funnels tax funds that otherwise would go into the general to fund things such as roads, schools, transit (GASP), essential services, etc. we are actually still putting burden on the tax payers. All of this to keep a financial burden off some very wealthy people. 

The convention center redirected existing sales taxes from general fund to pay for a new convention center. The Titans stadium could create new taxes from parking lots currently creating zero revenue. 

As you mentioned in a separate post, the land is already owned by the Sports Authority, which is great to avoid a las vegas situation. I do think that if affordable housing is included in the new district, that could be something the city wants and needs and doesn't have to fund. 

 

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2 hours ago, nashvylle said:

The convention center redirected existing sales taxes from general fund to pay for a new convention center. The Titans stadium could create new taxes from parking lots currently creating zero revenue. 

Correct, the new district could do that. A renovation of the current stadium would also bring in new taxes just as much as a new stadium. The actual revenue really isn't the question - albeit still a concern for me - but rather what method it is being collected (and who is really paying for it) and where do those monies real

The new tax district would most likely exempt residential areas, hospitals, car dealerships and certain government functions which are specifically called out in the MCC TDZ. What's interesting is just how big the zone to finance MCC is. Below is a rough estimation based on doing some digging I've done this morning. The red outlined area (minus business mentioned above) divert State and Local sales tax to MCC's coffers. I would think the Titans entertainment district would be about the size of the blue outline. The Titans stadium will cost approximately 2 to 3 times as much as MCC and will most likely have more intense maintenance requirements. Why should Lower Broadway's taxes not help the NFL stadium (if of course it becomes the path forwards that is). 

image.thumb.png.090dce3b5873f56eb0f7c7477236076e.png

This is where I do agree with SUN on that the area around the stadium - renovation or new - needs to be oriented toward the residents. If it is a special tax district that is targeting tourists, why would residents want to pay a steeper price to shop there? Living there is inherently more expensive, which means the affordable units need to be that much more affordable in order for the neighborhood to actually be affordable. If the affordable rent is then offset by increased taxes then really how affordable is it?

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Armacing, great points but I believe your only going to raise your Bp and make yourself feel Sick over this situation. Unfortunately Nashville isn’t alone with these kinda deals, it’s happening everywhere, everyday. Corporations run this country( and World), the government ( federal, state, city) are just pawns to the corporate elite. They either play the game or lose out completely, which isn’t a good idea because once they decide to play hardball and stand up to the corruption that city gets blacklisted and deals will fall like dominoes. There’s tax payers in every town, city and state paying for things that they don’t need or want and unfortunately “We The People “ don’t have a say in any of it. This stadium deal is most likely already a done deal, and you or I or all of us for that matter will not change what’s going to happen. So for your health, don’t let it get to you. 

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20 hours ago, Armacing said:

YES!  You are 100% correct, Bos2Nash!  It is a foregone conclusion that the ultimate source of funds underlying this entire project is tax revenue.  Oh sure, they will find 100 different ways to re-label and re-package the means by which the tax payer is funding the project...  But make no mistake:  The taxpayer will be funding it because otherwise the government wouldn't be involved.  If this were funded by private investors they wouldn't need the government to underwrite/guarantee/back-stop/subsidize the project. 

Using public land that was acquired with tax revenue.  Re-directing taxes within a zone to one investment that causes the rest of the county to have to pick up the slack.  Issuing bonds that cause the city to incur interest expense and use up its line of credit that could otherwise fund public projects.  This is all one big game of hide-the-cheese from the public that involves kick-backs and bribes and no-bid contracts and all the other corrupt shenanigans that go along with a government that knowingly or unknowingly (which is worse?) uses public funds to invest in a money-losing capital works project for the benefit of well-connected millionaires.

This is completely correct and I feel like most people feel this way. It feels like the state is going to use this new district and say the incremental revenue or a portion of the sales tax will go towards paying down the debt, with the justification being that the stadium is driving the new development. But the truth is the East bank and River North/Landings and Dickerson Pike have been popping for a couple of years now, and will continue to develop whether the Titans are there or not.  The Titans need to pay for this stadium without public funds or hotel tax revenue or any other scheme. 

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9 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

So for your health, don’t let it get to you. 

I don't even live in Davidson county, so it doesn't really affect me.  I'm just speaking up for the benefit of those less fortunate... Seeing as how I'm an SJW and all...  Berating socialists online is my contribution to society! :D

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3 minutes ago, Armacing said:

I don't even live in Davidson county, so it doesn't really affect me.  I'm just speaking up for the benefit of those less fortunate... Seeing as how I'm an SJW and all...  Berating socialists online is my contribution to society! :D

It affects you regardless as a taxpayer, if even in a small way. Also, this isn’t socialism, this is kleptocracy. 

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2 minutes ago, samsonh said:

It affects you regardless as a taxpayer, if even in a small way. Also, this isn’t socialism, this is kleptocracy. 

Yeah, exactly: Socialism is based on taking something from someone against their will and not giving them anything in return.

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"The project would include riverfront parks, green space, affordable housing units, offices, retail stores and restaurants, in addition to transit options,"   

Again, no details or guarantees yet that riverfront parks, green space, affordable housing units, offices, or transit options will actually be part of the plan.  They certainly should be,  but need to keep the Titans honest so they actually negotiate in good faith. 

" and would create thousands of estimated new jobs and generate millions of dollars in tax revenue."

Let's not start this already.....

Edited by Melrose
adding quotation mark
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