GreenCity/GreenCity Arena - $2.3B Ecodistrict

[I miss RVA]

33 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Here's an article that talks about how the development of Green City is affecting  how the County of Henrico is thinking about mass transit, connections, and how to get people in and out of Green City.  Nothing earth-shattering here, but it's good to read that there is some thought being put into this major development:

https://www.vpm.org/news/2023-02-15/green-city-henrico-transportation-infrastructure

It's a really good article, though. I'm VERY heartened to see that the county is seriously considering how to connect with mass transit so that Green City isn't 100% car-centric. Burns me up sometimes reading the comments to Green City articles in RBS or in the RT-D - certain commenters (usually the same ones) CONSTANTLY harp on "what about parking?" My pushback is - "what about mass transit?" RVA MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST get out of this over-dependency on one-person/one automobile. This isn't the 1950s or 1970s or 1990s anymore. The citizens won't do it on their own - it boils down to the governing bodies, civic leaders, business leaders, planners, etc., to work together and make it happen. This is certainly where the north/south PULSE BRT line would be super helpful. This is where satellite bus routes connecting Green City to one of the BRT stations would be super helpful. I 100% agree with urbanologists who call it fools gold for jurisdictions to wait for demand before building out a system. Know why there's no demand for the bus or a rail set-up in Henrico? Not because the county is too small. (Yes - population density DOES matter - but the lions share of the county's well over 300K residents live in the western 2/3 of the county). Demand doesn't exist in the county because there's no system in place. Yes - I realize that flies in the face of conventional wisdom - which in this case would say, "no - there's no bus because there's no demand." That's only part of the equation. As we've seen with the Broad Street PULSE line - it - the line - has been driving demand with NO OUTSIDE help at all. It is absolutely plausible that the Broad Street corridor would NOT be enjoying the tremendous growth that has been underway and continues to unfold from Scott's through Westwood to Willow Lawn without the PULSE line having been built. 

I keep preaching this sermon - but wow, it rings true - build it, and they will come.

That soapbox diatribe to say - VERY glad to see the county is thinking this through correctly regarding Green City. The potential for this development to be immensely successful is VERY high, IMNSHO.

[I miss RVA]

More good news coming out of Green City - Henrico has sold the Best Products site to the developer - so yet another domino has fallen as the Green City redevelopment begins to slowly gain momentum. It bodes well that this portion of the project is moving forward - this property includes the site of the future arena. Glad to see there's movement afoot in Green City.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/03/16/henrico-sells-best-products-site-to-greencity-developer-buys-athletic-center-next-door/

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

More good news coming out of Green City - Henrico has sold the Best Products site to the developer - so yet another domino has fallen as the Green City redevelopment begins to slowly gain momentum. It bodes well that this portion of the project is moving forward - this property includes the site of the future arena. Glad to see there's movement afoot in Green City.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/03/16/henrico-sells-best-products-site-to-greencity-developer-buys-athletic-center-next-door/

Yeah, this is good momentum moving forward. The article did mention that they will break ground on phase 1 of the project this year…I want to know when this year - at least give us a month (August? December? Or next month?).  Also, it wasn’t clear to me, but are they going to immediately start on the renovation of the Best HQ…or is that to begin later this year too?  Will ground be broken for all components of the first phase this year or will sticking a shovel in the ground for just one component of the first phase considered “ground broken on the first phase?”  So many questions….

[I miss RVA]

17 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Yeah, this is good momentum moving forward. The article did mention that they will break ground on phase 1 of the project this year…I want to know when this year - at least give us a month (August? December? Or next month?).  Also, it wasn’t clear to me, but are they going to immediately start on the renovation of the Best HQ…or is that to begin later this year too?  Will ground be broken for all components of the first phase this year or will sticking a shovel in the ground for just one component of the first phase considered “ground broken on the first phase?”  So many questions….

I'm thinking it's the county (and not RBS' reporting) but there does seem to be a bit of a "black box" effect regarding specifics coming out about particulars such as dates, etc., for this development. I'd be curious to know if the current/on-going economic uncertainties are "helping" keep lips very tight on the part of both the developer and the county. Meaning - something of an "expectations management" tactic (say little, deliver much (if possible) - rather than say a lot and deliver little or nothing) because you've GOT to believe that the developers and particularly the county would get SKEWERED publicly if they make big claims, garner a ton of press, and then EPICALLY fail to deliver on them.

Oh wait - I think that's been tried already by the city. (Exhibit A for the prosecution - Navy Hill...)

Edited March 16, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Child2021]

Nothing out of this, so far....

[eandslee]

Been wondering about the arena project a lot lately. Wondering when construction will start?  CCP better not pull what they did with VCU in Richmond.  My respect for them has already dipped quite a bit…they better not make me go full-on hate on them!

[Brent114]

I’ve already forgotten all about his project.  I’d like for it to move forward but I’m only like 5% convinced that it will. 

[I miss RVA]

3 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

I’ve already forgotten all about his project.  I’d like for it to move forward but I’m only like 5% convinced that it will. 

I hate saying it, but it's been out-of-sight, out-of-mind for SOOO long now - I've also forgotten about it.

No question - I'm praying my tuchus off that this project moves forward and gets rolling - but I'm not as confident as I once was, given the disaster that the Block-D development ended up becoming.

[Flood Zone]

17 hours ago, eandslee said:

Been wondering about the arena project a lot lately. Wondering when construction will start?  CCP better not pull what they did with VCU in Richmond.  My respect for them has already dipped quite a bit…they better not make me go full-on hate on them!

This is a tough one to call from an outsider's perspective. One the one hand, John Vithoulkas is on a long winning streak; on the other, there's these folks ....

[I miss RVA]

18 hours ago, eandslee said:

CCP better not pull what they did with VCU in Richmond. 

My biggest concern for quite some time now is that CCP is spreading -- or has spread -- itself too thing, what with major developments that were - at the time - proposed almost simultaneously for Block-D (VCU), GreenCity and Westwood. I've not had the feeling they are anywhere close to being "big" players in the industry at this point. They aren't the institutional folks like a Crescent or Hourigan or Avery Hall. CCP's pockets are only so deep - and three MAJOR projects in three parts of the metro..,. dunno... 

Even now with one of those developments - Block-D/VCU - having fallen by the wayside, I keep getting this sinking feeling that CCP are really a lot shakier than we realize. It's not like the group (the name escapes me - they built the Otis) who have already developed I think now at least four large buildings in Scott's Addition and now they're underway on a mega project on the N. Chasen & Son property. I believe that THEY are vastly underrated - whereas we may have overrated CCP - and relative to the viability of them even developing GreenCity - I'm starting to have concerns.

[eandslee]

Breaking News:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/08/17/breaking-news-markel-eagle-named-residential-developer-for-greencity-project/

[Flood Zone]

That's ... good news?

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Flood Zone said:

That's ... good news?

It's movement. Better than inertia.

[123fakestreet]

Still holding on to my fantasy this gets scrapped and a downtown arena is back on the table 

[Virginian11]

31 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

Still holding on to my fantasy this gets scrapped and a downtown arena is back on the table 

At this point I’ll take a modern arena anywhere - it’s an embarrassment a city of 1.3-1.4 mil doesn’t have a legit venue for sports/big shows.

[123fakestreet]

7 minutes ago, Virginian11 said:

At this point I’ll take a modern arena anywhere - it’s an embarrassment a city of 1.3-1.4 mil doesn’t have a legit venue for sports/big shows.

Agree, I'll take greencity, the plan looks nice. Just ridiculous how bad the nimbys in this city are that they killed Navy Hill - an excellent plan- because they couldn't understand what a TIF is.

I had someone tell me TIFs are a "mess" and have led to lawsuits in Chicago. Yes, there were lawsuits in Chicago because TIFs were so successful and popular some groups sued that their neighborhoods were being left out. . Also the total ignorance of NON RECOURSE bonds. It's literally in the name. The city is not on the hook if the projected taxes don't meet the debt service. Can you tell I'm still iritated? The anti development people and their lies are infuriating how they hold this city back.

[Virginian11]

46 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

Agree, I'll take greencity, the plan looks nice. Just ridiculous how bad the nimbys in this city are that they killed Navy Hill - an excellent plan- because they couldn't understand what a TIF is.

I had someone tell me TIFs are a "mess" and have led to lawsuits in Chicago. Yes, there were lawsuits in Chicago because TIFs were so successful and popular some groups sued that their neighborhoods were being left out. . Also the total ignorance of NON RECOURSE bonds. It's literally in the name. The city is not on the hook if the projected taxes don't meet the debt service. Can you tell I'm still iritated? The anti development people and their lies are infuriating how they hold this city back.

Agreed!  Of the two Navy Hill was my preference. It would be probably about halfway completed by now too…huge missed opportunity - was so exasperated watching the final city council vote on it that night years ago…

[Flood Zone]

14 hours ago, 123fakestreet said:

Agree, I'll take greencity, the plan looks nice.

Agreed. Navy Hill would have been preferable because redeveloping a downtown location is a more natural fit for a big arena than developing a new suburban location, but you take what you can get and the guy in the saddle in Henrico gets things done.

That said, I have concerns about Green City's connectivity. I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything other than an island to itself.

[Shakman]

WOW!  That layout is gross.  

[I miss RVA]

The Henrico board of supervisors approved the agreement between the county and Markel | Eagle for development of the northern half of GreenCity. For-sale homes could begin construction either in 2025 or 2026. 

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/09/13/greencity-plan-progresses-with-35m-land-sale-residential-development-agreement/

[I miss RVA]

The Henrico Citizen is reporting that the county board of supervisors has scheduled a public hearing for a special meeting on December 14th at 5 p.m. to consider establishing a second community development authority to help finance work for the GreenCity community. The first GreenCity CDA was formed this past January. 

From today's Henrico Citizen:

https://www.henricocitizen.com/articles/henrico-supervisors-schedule-public-hearing-for-second-greencity-community-development-authority/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

[Child2021]

On 8/17/2023 at 5:31 PM, 123fakestreet said:

Still holding on to my fantasy this gets scrapped and a downtown arena is back on the table 

Hopefully, they can rehab the existing arena and really spruce the area back up... along with the new hotel. 

[Downtowner]

7 hours ago, Child2021 said:

Hopefully, they can rehab the existing arena and really spruce the area back up... along with the new hotel. 

It would be a waste to rehab that hole hunk of metal. The problem is nobody would come to play or have a show or play a game at the coliseum  museum. You can drench that thing in gold nobody will come to it reason is it’s not an attractive arena compared to the rest of the cities in the U.S. we would still get bypassed by Charlottesville and dc.  It’s just the way it is now.  It’s just not worth the money and effort to redo the coliseum and it never has been. 

[Brent114]

1) it’s a fantastic looking building, just needs a cleaning

2) venues don’t get booked based on their outward appearance.  
 

Capacity  and outdated mechanicals are the only real issues. 

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

1) it’s a fantastic looking building, just needs a cleaning

2) venues don’t get booked based on their outward appearance.  
 

Capacity  and outdated mechanicals are the only real issues. 

1) I totally disagree.  Looks like a pile of poop.

2) It's more than just outward appearance, capacity, and mechanicals - it's format and how everything is laid out (for logistics as well as services for patrons).  Additionally, the acoustics suck in that building - something that can't be fixed by adding paint.  The whole building is obsolete.  It's had a shelf life and that has long expired.  Time to tear it down...and now it's an eyesore.