Grace Church 11 story mixed use development.

[Tigers81]

On 11/25/2022 at 12:06 PM, gman430 said:

Nothing for December which is three months. Any updates?

 

My source must not have been good on that. Although at the rate architects are moving these days 3 months to them is 3 years to the rest of us...

[GVLer]

Hard to get excited about this based on renderings. Hope to be proven wrong. McClaren and First Presbyterian were huge whiffs and I’d hate to see more big architectural misses. 

[gman430]

On 11/28/2022 at 9:06 PM, GVLer said:

Hard to get excited about this based on renderings. Hope to be proven wrong. McClaren and First Presbyterian were huge whiffs and I’d hate to see more big architectural misses. 

Doesn’t matter. Not like it’s gonna get built anyways.

[gman430]

Definitely not getting built. Not sure why the church wasted money on hiring an architect for this project in the first place. 

[gman]

50 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Definitely not getting built. Not sure why the church wasted money on hiring an architect for this project in the first place. 

Is this another one of your wild posts, or do you know this for certain?

[gman430]

16 minutes ago, gman said:

Is this another one of your wild posts, or do you know this for certain?

The church stated at the informal DRB meeting that they were looking for a developer to build the project. With the Federal Reserve continuing to raise interest rates, I just don’t see this occurring. 

[gman430]

Got an update on this project. Grace Church is still trying to decide what to do. They have three options on the table: 

-Find a developer willing to build this project and get it built. 
-Leave it as a parking lot.
-Build a 2-4 story building that would be built by the church and only be used by the church.

No clue as to when we might hear more info on what they decide. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by gman430

[gman430]

This project not surprisingly is no longer happening. 

[vicupstate]

6 hours ago, gman430 said:

This project not surprisingly is no longer happening. 

Are you basing that on anything concrete r just ranting?

[gman430]

41 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Are you basing that on anything concrete r just ranting?

Concrete. The inflation and interest rates just became too much. I suppose it could always get resurrected in the future. 

[motonenterprises]

7 hours ago, gman430 said:

Concrete. The inflation and interest rates just became too much. I suppose it could always get resurrected in the future. 

Show some concrete evidence from this developer or just don't say anything.

[distortedlogic]

No info here, but i wouldn't be surprised if this one is off. It's always seemed conceptual to me and with the cost of everything it probably doesn't make sense.

[gman430]

36 minutes ago, motonenterprises said:

Show some concrete evidence from this developer or just don't say anything.

What developer??? The church wasn’t able to find one to build the project due to the state of the economy right now which is why it is no longer happening. Like I said earlier though, it could always be resurrected in the future if a developer does come along and wants to build it.

It’s rough out there right now trying to get bank financing for large mixed use projects which is why you’re seeing so many of them downtown getting delayed from the Kimpton to Main at Markley. The Fed raising interest rates and inflation running rampant is a potent mix. It’s just the times we are in.

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by gman430

[motonenterprises]

5 hours ago, gman430 said:

What developer??? The church wasn’t able to find one to build the project due to the state of the economy right now which is why it is no longer happening. Like I said earlier though, it could always be resurrected in the future if a developer does come along and wants to build it.

It’s rough out there right now trying to get bank financing for large mixed use projects which is why you’re seeing so many of them downtown getting delayed from the Kimpton to Main at Markley. The Fed raising interest rates and inflation running rampant is a potent mix. It’s just the times we are in.

 

Okay. I apologize. I'm used to you just throwing things out there these days. Lol.

[vicupstate]

Seems like office use would be a better way to go here. The bottom floors are going to be that use anyway, other than a coffee shop. Given the lack of Class A space downtown, it would seem to make sense. Office rents at $43 a foot ought to justify the construction costs given the land is essentially free from the church's standpoint. Office condo would seem to work. Smaller companies would like a DT address and the floor plates would be small.

[gman]

Just listened to a banking analyst being interviewed on CNBC. He said while the overall economy is really good, banks are not going to be financing many large scale office projects for at least the next 2 years. He also said the demand is not there for these projects because of high interest rates. Large office building projects just don’t make sense for the developer or for the banks. 

[NewlyUpstate]

20 minutes ago, gman said:

Just listened to a banking analyst being interviewed on CNBC. He said while the overall economy is really good, banks are not going to be financing many large scale office projects for at least the next 2 years. He also said the demand is not there for these projects because of high interest rates. Large office building projects just don’t make sense for the developer or for the banks. 

There's plenty of stories about this phenomenon in some large cities that are not diversified (San Francisco, New York City, Chicago) and primarily serve a single industry having an issue with people going remote and not wanting to return to office due to the very high cost of living.

I really don't think Greenville is dealing with this same issue and it's not right to extrapolate issues in those cities to our city.  The occupancy numbers show that our city is in major need of additional class A office space and hopefully banks are smart enough to see that.   Honestly, banks should be prioritizing financing for office projects in cities (like ours) that people are migrating to in order to escape from some of the highest cost cities in the country.

Edited July 18, 2023 by NewlyUpstate

[GVLer]

A developer can still find financing in Greenville for office space, but Fifth Third Bank as an example has suspended all office lending nationwide. Some banks do not want to get overweighted in any asset class in general and they watch the national trends. Some cities have such a glut of office space that they offer tax incentives for conversion to residential. 

[gman]

2 hours ago, GVLer said:

A developer can still find financing in Greenville for office space, but Fifth Third Bank as an example has suspended all office lending nationwide. Some banks do not want to get overweighted in any asset class in general and they watch the national trends. Some cities have such a glut of office space that they offer tax incentives for conversion to residential. 

Even if a local bank offered financing, how could any developer or investor afford rates at a minimum of 8.25%? It does not makes sense for the bank or the developer. 

[gman430]

No argument here. Fed continues to raise interest rates. Gas prices are at an eight month high. Loans are next to impossible to get right now: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/31/banks-say-conditions-for-loans-to-businesses-and-consumers-will-keep-getting-tougher.html

It’s tough out there right now people. I don’t see downtown getting any tower cranes for at least two or three years. Hope I am wrong. 

Greenville and Mauldin suck. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by gman430

[vicupstate]

The Canvas project will have a crane and probably the Lima 1 building.

[gman430]

5 hours ago, vicupstate said:

The Canvas project will have a crane and probably the Lima 1 building.

You’re wrong.  
 

Canvas is going to have TWO tower cranes not one.  

[apaladin]

8 hours ago, gman430 said:

You’re wrong.  
 

Canvas is going to have TWO tower cranes not one.  

Which one is the Canvas project? 

[gman430]

50 minutes ago, apaladin said:

Which one is the Canvas project? 

The Beach Company one.