Is something big coming?

[MJLO]

27 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

And the move to D1 will surely increase the attendance number / become an interesting entertainment option (heck, I’d probably go to a few games if they were D1). 

Joe

Lubbers stadium is listed at a capacity of 10,400 seats so those attendance numbers already put them over 100% capacity on average.   They are already beating some FBS schools in attendance.  Give them a bigger venue on a bigger stage I'm pretty confident W. Michigan would show up in support. 

[Khorasaurus1]

GVSU with a downtown stadium could very quickly ascend to one of the top teams in the MAC, but it's kind of a fraught time to make that kind of move. If the top 60ish FBS schools end up breaking away into a new, higher division,  the MAC will be left in something very similar to today's FCS.  

GVSU moving to FBS would also be really bad for CMU - and I mean the school, not the football team or athletic department. CMU already struggles to recruit students against GVSU, and having FBS football is one of Central's biggest competitive advantages. FBS GVSU would also hurt Western and Ferris, too, but I think CMU would take the biggest hit. But does GVSU care about that? Can the State make them care about that?

[mpchicago]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:52 PM, Floyd_Z said:

I thought the same but it's north of the big boy and north of the YMCA

 

This does include the Big Boy site.   It's apart of the plaza along Pearl. 

On 8/27/2022 at 8:27 AM, Floyd_Z said:

Here's a the bigger picture with all the planned future development.  Looks like they plan on utilizing the GVSU ramp for parking, so they must be involved somehow, but I'm not sure to what extent.

I find it interesting that it says "Future medical clinic" I wonder if that could be tied to GVSU as well?  Maybe sports medicine?

I'm I looking at this correctly -  Plans call for the fire station "FS" to be removed along Bridge street for development as well? 

[GR8scott]

I guess I will weigh in here. I would say theres no way they will put an MLS team in GR, from what I've heard its ultra competitive to be one of the next markets to land one , St Louis is next and had to pay $200million just for the expansion fee to the league, GR is too cheap for that. The best hope would be USL championship level (tier 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL_Championship) in which most of the markets have stadiums in the 5k-10k capacity range although a few are much larger. Many of those stadiums appear to be dual purpose or repurposed baseball and football stadiums with some larger markets like Detroit, San Diego, San Antonio, Indy ect as well as ones that also have MLS like Atlanta, NYC, LA. Also given GR lack of going big in the past in sports (half finished VAA, Single A baseball in the suburbs, Arena2 football team folding, no D1 college ect.) I wouldn't be surprised if its just the tier 3 league USL league 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL_League_One to "test the market" and putting it with markets like Omaha, Charlotte and Richmond but also much smaller ones like Stateboro GA, Windsor (Ft. Collins)CO and Santa Barbara CA. Those stadiums are more of a mixed bag and as small as 1000 seats in Fresno. For reference East Kentwood High School football field has seating for over 7500 https://www.kentwoodps.org/athletics/facilities/. 

I will agree with the sentiment here that its time for GR to go big or go home with these type of hype developments that end up being downsized and underwhelming, especially in the critical spot that the stadium would be in adjacent to GVSU, downtown, a bar district, highly visible from 131 and impacting the entire skyline.

The GVSU play is very a interesting aspect. Its directly next to the downtown campus so that would make sense. Being downtown GR vs. Allendale, will undoubtably draw more attendance and more visibility, however staying at D2 would be underwhelming given the size of the market, size of the school, attendance records, success on the field, recruiting and with this facilities. And if/when the GLIAC dissolves and they are playing as an independent, other than playing Ferris state every other year as a rival, there no real exciting teams to play. At least as an FCS team they will most likely play in a league with IN state, IL state and play a non-conference schedule against MAC and BIG10 teams. GR is the largest market without a division 1 program, GVSU has long said they believe there is more visibility with success at D2 than moving up to D 1 and not being competitive, I don't buy it.

I think the right move for this development is to build it for the future meaning a USL tier 2 and GVSU division 1 team stadium bigger than the current Lubbers stadium so in the 12k-15k range and room to expand or wait longer. By the way, a kum and go convenience store that was proposed next to this, is putting a USL championship level team in their hometown of Des Moines, IA (a smaller market city I often compart to that tend to do things more on a grander scale than GR) as part of over $500 billion development there. The stadium there was postponed and looking to start play in 2025

[Cookin_peacocks]

I'm telling you. Get an NLL team in GR. You'd have major interest.

 

The NLL is biggish time. And it's fun and would fit into VAA.

 

I could also see a traditional lax team playing in this new stadium. Major league lacrosse 

[GR_Urbanist]

IDK, I really get the vibe that this is just some concept that is more for an investor pitch than a really serious idea...whatever that idea might be. The graphics shows someone seriously wanting to spend 124 million for a soccer stadium in GR? 

It doesnt matter how passionate the soccer community is in our city, they could not sustain the team they had, and this would be an absurd waste of resources for an open-air facility in a cold weather city, of a niche sport, in a 3-tier sports market.

And all of the "future housing" and mixed-use labels just screams pandering sales job for tax breaks and credits. That and the implied connections to GVSU.

 

It just seems all a little too "trying too hard".

Edited August 29, 2022 by GR_Urbanist

[cstonesparty]

This has DP Fox written all over it.

[mgreven]

Enjoying all the activity this thread brings! I’m sitting here reading my GR Magazine and it mentions this, too. 

[joeDowntown]

I just wanted to quickly see if a small D1 sized stadium could fit on the lot's in question. My thoughts:

Central Michigan (45,000 seats) and Western Michigan University (30,000 seats) seem similar in size to what I think GVSU would need if it jumped to D1 (and wanted to anchor a stadium. All EXTREMELY hypothetical). Could be a bit smaller at about 25,000. This would also give a USL Champion league team a good sized stadium, with long-term growth potential to move to MLS (again hypothetical). 

USL soccer stadiums have a field size of 120 yards by 72 yards (and other than the players benches and a small area for throw-ins, are quite close to the seats). A college football field is 120 yards (100 yards + end zones) by 53 1/3' plus a sizable area for the sidelines. So you could feasibly fit a dual purpose field (as long as the turf was lined at game time, which I have to assume is done at some stadiums). 

I then dropped CMU and Western stadiums onto the lots on the west side, and they both fit (granted, WMU is built into a hill and has a lot of grass seating, so maybe that would drop the size a bit. 

Just a stupid little exercise, but I could see a stadium that size being a "game changer" and becoming economically feasible (as opposed to 3000-5000 seats with a $124M price tag). 

Western Michigan and CMU Stadiums:

 

 

[cstonesparty]

Is there any chance that the delay on the amphitheater is related to this?  Could they combine amphitheater and stadium?

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, cstonesparty said:

Is there any chance that the delay on the amphitheater is related to this?  Could they combine amphitheater and stadium?

Good question. I’d think with the government dollars committed to the amphitheater, it would be very specific to that use (plus the investment in moving the sewer line). 

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, cstonesparty said:

Is there any chance that the delay on the amphitheater is related to this?  Could they combine amphitheater and stadium?

Nobody knows. Nobody's talking. 

[Pattmost20]

5 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

It doesnt matter how passionate the soccer community is in our city, they could not sustain the team they had

Yeah not exactly how it went down. Houseman was a wild card factor in the whole situation. They were notoriously difficult to work with and kept upping their rent. True that attendance leveled off, but it was also tier 4 amateur soccer with a barely 2 month season.

 

With pro level talent, televised games, and a real marketing budget, it will be a different story. Cincinnati averaged 600 a game in tier 4. They brought in a tier 2 team and changed venues, jumped to 25k average attendance. 

[droonus2000]

14 hours ago, demhem said:

Most recent GVSU attendance statistics:

https://gvsulakers.com/news/2022/3/31/gvsu-leads-the-nation-in-football-attendance-for-the-10th-consecutive-year.aspx#:~:text=The NCAA released its football,50th season of Laker football.

I would have guessed higher. I’m surprised it’s less than 12k.

Those games seem like quite a draw and I would think even more so in FCS. No way they play downtown unless it’s bigger than Lubbers.

[droonus2000]

2 hours ago, Pattmost20 said:

With pro level talent, televised games, and a real marketing budget, it will be a different story. Cincinnati averaged 600 a game in tier 4. They brought in a tier 2 team and changed venues, jumped to 25k average attendance. 

That’s what I’m worried about. That we play the demure card and say this is what we need right now, and then in a few years we say man that should have been triple the size. If this tower hadn’t been shrunk down, it that had been configured differently. How different would our city be?

 I say it all the time, the Whitecaps  are fun (just went last week), but why should I care about some guys that likely won’t make the majors, and if they do it’s years later. I’d much rather drive to an MLB or AAA game, because it matters more. It’s a bigger experience surrounding the on field play. I’ve been to a couple dozen Whitecaps games and all I remember are things not involving the game. A two run walkoff in Wrigley, I’ll remember the rest of my life. Or the excitement of being just having a beer in the brewery connected to Louisville Slugger Field while a game is going on. I say this and I find baseball dreadfully boring. Give me a solid experience  that means something and I’ll partake once in a while. 

[demhem]

8 hours ago, droonus2000 said:

I would have guessed higher. I’m surprised it’s less than 12k.

Those games seem like quite a draw and I would think even more so in FCS. No way they play downtown unless it’s bigger than Lubbers.

Keep in mind, the average includes the bitter cold late season games when ~6-8,000 people show up. Most games through October (especially against teams like Ferris, Michigan Tech, SVSU, etc.) are several thousand above that figure, up to the 17,000 they saw against Ferris last fall. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by demhem

[GRDadof3]

Maybe GV wouldn't play every game at this downtown stadium. Maybe just exhibition games, night games or when they expect a big turnout. 

[Khorasaurus1]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Maybe GV wouldn't play every game at this downtown stadium. Maybe just exhibition games, night games or when they expect a big turnout. 

I think if a football/soccer stadium gets built with them in mind, they kind of have to move there. They only play 6-8 home games a year (including playoffs). Having two venues doesn't make sense.

Now, for basketball, I think a D-1 Grand Valley could absolutely move some of their home games to Van Andel.  They would absolutely pack the place for a home game against Michigan or Michigan State (or Notre Dame or a number of other nearby or major programs). But they probably wouldn't need all 10,000 seats for games against smaller teams. 

[Cookin_peacocks]

https://wfgr.com/sketches-of-a-downtown-stadium-real-or-a-fever-dream/

 

Guys, we made it 

[demhem]

The original poster of the stadium information seems to have scrubbed their posts/username. 

[Cookin_peacocks]

30 minutes ago, demhem said:

The original poster of the stadium information seems to have scrubbed their posts/username. 

That's super disappointing, but I doubt anyone thought this would go so public. I was shocked when I saw this at the GR subreddit and even more when I saw the article come up through my works daily email of links to everything GR

[Allison Slater]

On 8/28/2022 at 6:07 PM, Pattmost20 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2021/03/pro-soccer-team-new-stadium-could-be-part-of-grand-rapids-future.html%3foutputType=amp

 

This is an old article, but they mention west side and 7500 seats. I would think that would still be the target capacity, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. 

20 floor buildings get downgraded to 12 all the time. Seems within character for 7500 seats to be downgraded to 5000.

[cstonesparty]

West side GR site examined for soccer stadium; DeVos acquires adjacent land (mibiz.com)

 

[Pattmost20]

21 minutes ago, cstonesparty said:

West side GR site examined for soccer stadium; DeVos acquires adjacent land (mibiz.com)

 

Well your comment from Monday about DP Fox was accurate.

[GRDadof3]

20 hours ago, Cookin_peacocks said:

That's super disappointing, but I doubt anyone thought this would go so public. I was shocked when I saw this at the GR subreddit and even more when I saw the article come up through my works daily email of links to everything GR

Someone reached out to me to see if I knew the admin of this site, and I said I did of course, but never heard back again. I assumed they wanted the images pulled. The cat's kind of out-of-the-bag now.

Interesting that DPFox bought the Big Boy site now.