Proposed Downtown Amphitheater

[Raildude's dad]

The only way I can get 31 acres is to include all the land from Fulton to Wealthy and from Market to  to the river.  That includes the  the 11 acres  just sold by the city.  The 31 acres are bisected by the freeway and the railroad tracks.  The freeway isn't accurately portrayed in the rendering and the RR tracks are not shown at all. 

[GRDadof3]

8 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:

The only way I can get 31 acres is to include all the land from Fulton to Wealthy and from Market to  to the river.  That includes the  the 11 acres  just sold by the city.  The 31 acres are bisected by the freeway and the railroad tracks.  The freeway isn't accurately portrayed in the rendering and the RR tracks are not shown at all. 

That rendering is from when the Market/Fulton lot was being considered for the amphitheater. Wish the media would stop sharing it.

But you're right, from an economic redevelopment standpoint, the city and the other partners involved are looking at it as one big opportunity, with the amphitheater right in the middle of it. 

38 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

Interesting quote from an MIBiz article:

”National housing developers that haven’t invested in the area before also are showing interest in the 31-acre concept and view the amphitheater as the major draw, Vanderberg said.

“The amphitheater is what brought them in,” Vanderberg said. “There weren’t specific proposals or numbers thrown around, but they said they didn’t see this much property and this type of development happening elsewhere around the country.”

maybe a chance of some national players/investment in the mixed use portion?

also says that Rosetti is working on the amphitheater plans. 

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/grand-rapids-linchpin-modeled-off-van-andel-arena-116-million-amphitheater-project-already-attracting-national-developers-attention

Joe

Dang, can't read it. Interestingly, Rossetti designed Van Andel Arena. 

[cstonesparty]

41 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

That rendering is from when the Market/Fulton lot was being considered for the amphitheater. Wish the media would stop sharing it.

But you're right, from an economic redevelopment standpoint, the city and the other partners involved are looking at it as one big opportunity, with the amphitheater right in the middle of it. 

Dang, can't read it. Interestingly, Rossetti designed Van Andel Arena. 

interestingly, there's been longtime conversation that 131 is an obstacle to connectivity and should be redesigned, yet in this case those two parcels are being viewed as connected, which is contrary to what's been said over time...  

[Khorasaurus1]

52 minutes ago, cstonesparty said:

interestingly, there's been longtime conversation that 131 is an obstacle to connectivity and should be redesigned, yet in this case those two parcels are being viewed as connected, which is contrary to what's been said over time...  

At least one of the draft concepts had walkways over and under 131 - the one going over would connect the Charlie's Crab site to the top of the amphitheater seating bowl. The one going under would connect along the river from the Charlie's Crab site to the waterfront side of the amphitheater, and then cross the river to connect to GVSU. 

Those two, plus the Market Avenue sidewalks, would provide good connectivity across 131. They are pretty expensive ideas, though, especially the river crossing and the elevated walkway over an already-elevated freeway.  

Edit: This is the concept I was remembering:

Edited April 11, 2022 by Khorasaurus1

[GRDadof3]

26 minutes ago, Khorasaurus1 said:

At least one of the draft concepts had walkways over and under 131 - the one going over would connect the Charlie's Crab site to the top of the amphitheater seating bowl. The one going under would connect along the river from the Charlie's Crab site to the waterfront side of the amphitheater, and then cross the river to connect to GVSU. 

Those two, plus the Market Avenue sidewalks, would provide good connectivity across 131. They are pretty expensive ideas, though, especially the river crossing and the elevated walkway over an already-elevated freeway.  

Edit: This is the concept I was remembering:

That concept also shows a potential building South of Wealthy, where the old train station parking was. I assume they're saying "We'll sell this parcel if someone wants it for redevelopment"

[cstonesparty]

38 minutes ago, Khorasaurus1 said:

At least one of the draft concepts had walkways over and under 131 - the one going over would connect the Charlie's Crab site to the top of the amphitheater seating bowl. The one going under would connect along the river from the Charlie's Crab site to the waterfront side of the amphitheater, and then cross the river to connect to GVSU. 

Those two, plus the Market Avenue sidewalks, would provide good connectivity across 131. They are pretty expensive ideas, though, especially the river crossing and the elevated walkway over an already-elevated freeway.  

Edit: This is the concept I was remembering:

I'm just pointing out the fact that when people want to find solutions other than spending a hundred million dollars on a freeway rebuild, there are creative ideas...  
If you hate that freeway, it has to go, but if you want to get land developed in a creative way, then there are actual ideas to be had.  

--end rant--

[joeDowntown]

In addition to the areas GRDad highlighted that are part of 201 Market + the Charley's Crab/ Market/Fulton Surface lot, there are also a lot of smaller parcels that I could see being developed with infill as this project takes place (shown in green). I'd be interested to see if any of this property has been changing hands recently.

 

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, cstonesparty said:

I'm just pointing out the fact that when people want to find solutions other than spending a hundred million dollars on a freeway rebuild, there are creative ideas...  
If you hate that freeway, it has to go, but if you want to get land developed in a creative way, then there are actual ideas to be had.  

--end rant--

I don't really get what you're getting at? Are you suggesting they get rid of 131? 

[Cookin_peacocks]

1 minute ago, GRDadof3 said:

I don't really get what you're getting at? Are you suggesting they get rid of 131? 

Build a high rise that has 131 going THROUGH IT!

 

*takes more acid*

 

Jokes aside, that would be pretty awesome. 

[GRDadof3]

2 minutes ago, Cookin_peacocks said:

Build a high rise that has 131 going THROUGH IT!

 

*takes more acid*

 

Jokes aside, that would be pretty awesome. 

You could possibly drop 131 to grade from Wealthy Street to Pearl and then cover it with parks and buildings. 

[Khorasaurus1]

13 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

You could possibly drop 131 to grade from Wealthy Street to Pearl and then cover it with parks and buildings. 

Ah, a GR "big dig." Looks like MDOT's plan is likely the opposite - a consistently elevated freeway that roads and pathways can connect underneath. 

1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

In addition to the areas GRDad highlighted that are part of 201 Market + the Charley's Crab/ Market/Fulton Surface lot, there are also a lot of smaller parcels that I could see being developed with infill as this project takes place (shown in green). I'd be interested to see if any of this property has been changing hands recently.

The Ellis lot at Weston/Cesar Chavez is going to be a very high profile site as this all moves forward. The lot north of Weston is private parking for the building at 32 Market, right? Would be cool if that could become a park/gathering space, but I suspect the tenants at 32 Market will want to keep their dedicated parking. 

[joeDowntown]

14 minutes ago, Khorasaurus1 said:

The Ellis lot at Weston/Cesar Chavez is going to be a very high profile site as this all moves forward. The lot north of Weston is private parking for the building at 32 Market, right? Would be cool if that could become a park/gathering space, but I suspect the tenants at 32 Market will want to keep their dedicated parking. 

That's why I added it to my map. I think it's an ideal spot for ancillary development. Even 32 Market's lot may in play if another development close by has parking and they can work out an agreement.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

That concept also shows a potential building South of Wealthy, where the old train station parking was. I assume they're saying "We'll sell this parcel if someone wants it for redevelopment"

The city is getting ready to sell that property, since the additional parking is no longer needed.  I think it was for low income housing.  Last I heard the city property between Wealthy and the RR tracks is NOT for sale.

I wonder if Amtrak will ever sell their property

[Guest]

I heard of another project "spring"-ing up near the Century warehouse project.  Looks like almost 500 units in the "wire".  Very similar to Century, but It looks like Reno-ing the existing buildings with no additional buildings.

I think that's pretty much all of the large warehouses in GR.  I'm excited for all of these to get under way!  Is the Godfrey/Market on near completion?

[Guest]

10 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Interesting quote from an MIBiz article:

”National housing developers that haven’t invested in the area before also are showing interest in the 31-acre concept and view the amphitheater as the major draw, Vanderberg said.

“The amphitheater is what brought them in,” Vanderberg said. “There weren’t specific proposals or numbers thrown around, but they said they didn’t see this much property and this type of development happening elsewhere around the country.”

maybe a chance of some national players/investment in the mixed use portion?

also says that Rosetti is working on the amphitheater plans. 

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/grand-rapids-linchpin-modeled-off-van-andel-arena-116-million-amphitheater-project-already-attracting-national-developers-attention

Joe

I'm kind of surprised Dan Gilbert hasn't considered looking at GR for development.  Bedrock does some great, successful projects.  The Hudson tower experienced some pretty lengthy delays, but those were kind of out of their hands.  I think it helps that a lot of Quicken employees make close to if not more than six figures and Gilbert's companies offer incentives to live in the city of Detroit.

[GRDadof3]

35 minutes ago, Floyd_Z said:

I heard of another project "spring"-ing up near the Century warehouse project.  Looks like almost 500 units in the "wire".  Very similar to Century, but It looks like Reno-ing the existing buildings with no additional buildings.

I think that's pretty much all of the large warehouses in GR.  I'm excited for all of these to get under way!  Is the Godfrey/Market on near completion?

I've heard the Century warehouse project is a bit up-in-the-air due to bids coming back way higher than expected. That was a few months ago but I haven't heard or seen anything different since.  Honestly it makes sense.  

[cstonesparty]

7 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I don't really get what you're getting at? Are you suggesting they get rid of 131? 

People have been campaigning for years to rebuild 131 with drastically different designs that would restore connection between the sides.  At a mammoth cost.  I suspect if I searched here, I'd find those conversations here too.  But here we are discussing for creating connectivity that are substantially less disruptive. 

As for a high rise with 131 going through it, the Eisenhower in Chicago goes under a big building going into downtown...  so it has been done.  

[GRDadof3]

11 hours ago, cstonesparty said:

People have been campaigning for years to rebuild 131 with drastically different designs that would restore connection between the sides.  At a mammoth cost.  I suspect if I searched here, I'd find those conversations here too.  But here we are discussing for creating connectivity that are substantially less disruptive. 

As for a high rise with 131 going through it, the Eisenhower in Chicago goes under a big building going into downtown...  so it has been done.  

I think the 131 rebuild that MDOT is seeking input on goes up TO the s-curve and does not include the s-curve. I think it's 28th Street to the s-curve. Remember they just re-built the s-curve in the last 20 years. 

But yeah, there are a lot of cities where highways go under buildings (Atlanta for instance).

[ModSquad]

13 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I've heard the Century warehouse project is a bit up-in-the-air due to bids coming back way higher than expected. That was a few months ago but I haven't heard or seen anything different since.  Honestly it makes sense.  

Would not surprise me one bit.  We are seeing outlandish price increases.  One project was delayed by our customer from Jan to June.  Big mistake, cost for their duplex went up $26K!  Lumber and steel prices are in the stratosphere.

 

[GRLaker]

14 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I think the 131 rebuild that MDOT is seeking input on goes up TO the s-curve and does not include the s-curve. I think it's 28th Street to the s-curve. Remember they just re-built the s-curve in the last 20 years. 

But yeah, there are a lot of cities where highways go under buildings (Atlanta for instance).

That in itself is also needed. 131’s entrance/exit system between 28th and downtown is in desperate need of improvement. I’m hoping that’s part of what they’re looking at. 

[GRDadof3]

9 hours ago, GRLaker said:

That in itself is also needed. 131’s entrance/exit system between 28th and downtown is in desperate need of improvement. I’m hoping that’s part of what they’re looking at. 

That's what they're talking about, and seeking input on:

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/traffic/mdot-launches-online-survey-for-feedback-about-rebuilding-us-131/69-64e6a69b-c379-4d9a-aa23-684e6af80c82

[cstonesparty]

Recent article:  https://www.crainsdetroit.com/economic-development/grand-rapids-envisions-amphitheater-development-downtown

 

[joeDowntown]

$30M in the current state budget for the amphitheater:

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2022/06/grand-rapids-leaders-very-hopeful-state-budget-will-include-30m-for-riverfront-amphitheater.html?outputType=amp

[GRDadof3]

I see Grand Action has brought some new "younger" blood into their leadership. Kara Wood used to lead the City's Economic Development office during the "boom years" downtown and has recently been at WMU for a few years. 

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2022/05/grand-rapids-economic-development-group-focused-on-transformational-downtown-projects-hires-new-executive-director.html

[Cookin_peacocks]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

I see Grand Action has brought some new "younger" blood into their leadership. Kara Wood used to lead the City's Economic Development office during the "boom years" downtown and has recently been at WMU for a few years. 

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2022/05/grand-rapids-economic-development-group-focused-on-transformational-downtown-projects-hires-new-executive-director.html

I know Kara, and I've already been in her ear. LOL. 

Im telling her to hire me, I have lots of good ideas.