JW Marriott Hotel

[joeDowntown]

Nope, he was disgusted when the planning commission called it ugly. One man's junk... i guess.

Joe

I seen the rendering before but never looked at the base. Seems that first floor would have to be a mistake, something just left out of the renderings. I find it hard to beleive the guy would be that dumb.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[GRDadof3]

You know, that would be nice if they now plan to tear down the Amway Grand parking ramp at the corner and build a newer one.

[hood]

I don't know anything about this particular parking ramp, they have notirously short lives. Parking ramps, on average last about 20-30 years before they have to be either replaced or overhauled, and since remodling a parking ramp is extremely expensive, they usually get rebuilt. I've heard of some that have only lasted 15 years.

[GRDadof3]

I don't know anything about this particular parking ramp, they have notirously short lives. Parking ramps, on average last about 20-30 years before they have to be either replaced or overhauled, and since remodling a parking ramp is extremely expensive, they usually get rebuilt. I've heard of some that have only lasted 15 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's this beautiful abstact art piece in the background here:

[superNOVA]

It is possible that the orange building in the first rendering might be the parking ramp, or an approximation of it. Would make sense if they follow the newer trends in parking ramp design. Plus, the Riverfront expansion is way smaller than that.

[GRDadof3]

It is possible that the orange building in the first rendering might be the parking ramp, or an approximation of it.  Would make sense if they follow the newer trends in parking ramp design.  Plus, the Riverfront expansion is way smaller than that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yah, I thought the Riverfront expansion was only 5 stories. And that would make sense. The Monroe Center ramp is a 555 car ramp, and does have that look:

And I have seen this rendering of the convention center part of the new hotel and it shows an elevated enclosed walk at the Southeast corner going South to........I couldn't figure out what it attached to, unless it was a really long bridge to Plaza Towers.

And this one:

I wonder if the city stepped in and asked Alticor to build a new ramp to help with their parking crunch?

[mpchicago]

The large orange building to the south of the new hotel is in fact the parking ramp mentioned in the GRBJ. However, it was my understanding that this ramp has pretty much always been apart of this plan.

Apparently Campau Avenue and the Louis Campau Promenade are slated for complete reconstruction too. The design along Campau calls for trees and large planters similar to what is currently along Monroe Center.

I think that parking ramp will pretty much take up the space from Louis Campau Promenade to the new addition of the Riverfront Building. It would be nice if they carved out some retail/restaurant space along the street, but I haven

[GRDadof3]

It is possible that the orange building in the first rendering might be the parking ramp, or an approximation of it.  Would make sense if they follow the newer trends in parking ramp design.  Plus, the Riverfront expansion is way smaller than that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

superNOVA, the more I look at that picture, the more I think you are right. If you look closely at it, you can even make out the 5 story expansion on the existing 5 story Riverfront Building going toward the orange building (parking ramp). You can also see that the shorter part of the Riverfront Building looks like it also links to the orange building. Since Riverfront is losing half of their parking, and expanding at the same time, it would make sense that they would need/want to make up for this shortage.

I sure with there was someone here who knew for sure

Somehow we have to get in touch with this Bert Crandell guy from HP3 LLC who is the spokesperson for Alticor, and get them to do something at ground level on the parking ramp. He said they are in the design phase now, and that the parking ramp won't break ground until later, take shorter time to build, and finish at the same time as the hotel.

[superNOVA]

If it is the ramp, that is one hell of a parking garage. If designed correcty and if it looks anything like it does in the rendering, it will add a lot of density to the riverfont.

[torgo]

If it is the ramp, that is one hell of a parking garage.  If designed correcty and if it looks anything like it does in the rendering, it will add a lot of density to the riverfont.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It'll make for a taller building, but that's not really density IMO. Instead of more parking, I think we should cram all the housing we possibly can downtown. That is our biggest deficiency, and is the key to vitality and economic growth. Build tall buildings, but fill them with residents, not cars!

[superNOVA]

Odd, after the next round of building the four tallest towers in Grand Rapids will be residential in nature. Is that not good enough for you? People that live downtown will also have to park downtown, at least until we can get some kind of reliable transit.

Sorry, busses hardly count. If I was to take the bus to work, it would eat more than three hours of my day. Not exactly what I (or most people) want.

The point is, Grand Rapids is making great strides in residential living downtown. There is no point to bash the progress that has been made.

[torgo]

Odd, after the next round of building the four tallest towers in Grand Rapids will be residential in nature.  Is that not good enough for you?  People that live downtown will also have to park downtown, at least until we can get some kind of reliable transit.

Sorry, busses hardly count.  If I was to take the bus to work, it would eat more than three hours of my day.  Not exactly what I (or most people) want.

The point is, Grand Rapids is making great strides in residential living downtown.  There is no point to bash the progress that has been made.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Riverhouse=residential; Amway=Commercial, Plaza Towers= Commercial/residential, Alticor=commercial, Bridgewater=Commercial, McKay Tower=commercial...I don't count hotels as residential because there are no permanent residents.

Grand Rapids is making great strides downtown and I am all for it; don't get me wrong. But that doesn't mean there couldn't be more. We also parking all over the place: Ionia, Lyon, Ottawa/Fulton, Ottawa / Louis, Campau, Amway, New Alticor Hotel, Gov't Center, GRCC, GVSU, Plaza Towers, Bridgewater Place, not to mention half a dozen DASH lots all around the outsides of Downtown and GVSU lots...and we need more? Are all of those parking areas full all the time? Doesn't seem like it to me.

I know that many of those aren't public and they don't let others in, but that's part of the problem. What good is it to have eight parking garages around town if they are only 1/2 full? Seems like a lot of wasted space to me. It's downtown, I think it should be a pain to find parking, so people are less likely to drive everywhere down here. As for new residents, yes, they do need a place to park, but most of them also have feet, bicycles, and the like. I think there is more of a walking problem and less of a parking problem. But that's just me.

[GRDadof3]

Riverhouse=residential; Amway=Commercial, Plaza Towers= Commercial/residential, Alticor=commercial, Bridgewater=Commercial, McKay Tower=commercial...I don't count hotels as residential because there are no permanent residents.

Grand Rapids is making great strides downtown and I am all for it; don't get me wrong.    But that doesn't mean there couldn't be more.  We also parking all over the place:  Ionia, Lyon, Ottawa/Fulton, Ottawa / Louis, Campau, Amway, New Alticor Hotel, Gov't Center, GRCC, GVSU, Plaza Towers, Bridgewater Place, not to mention half a dozen DASH lots all around the outsides of Downtown and GVSU lots...and we need more?  Are all of those parking areas full all the time? Doesn't seem like it to me.

I know that many of those aren't public and they don't let others in, but that's part of the problem.  What good is it to have eight parking garages around town if they are only 1/2 full?  Seems like a lot of wasted space to me.  It's downtown, I think it should be a pain to find parking, so people are less likely to drive everywhere down here. As for new residents, yes, they do need a place to park, but most of them also have feet, bicycles, and the like.  I think there is more of a walking problem and less of a parking problem.  But that's just me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a real conundrum, to say the least. On one hand, the parking crunch (and the city says there is a problem and has plans to build 3 more new ramps by 2012) is a good sign that there are a lot of people going/living/working downtown. On the other hand, if we keep building ramps, we will reach a plateau of no more desirable land, and without further growth, the pendulum will swing the other way and we'll be right back to a dead downtown again. And, like someone said, we don't have a reliable transit system to serve the masses in GR. That is why I was once opposed to funding mass transit here and thought it was a pipe dream, and I have now turned 180.

[JimInGR]

Andy,

Actually, you should note that Riverhouse is commercial/residential. The first 6 floors will be office space.

[GaryP]

we will reach a plateau of no more desirable land

I think anything like this happening is a very long time off. Like many years after these current parking structures crumble to the ground. It is an interesting topic though, where do you guys think the dt area will expand to next. It could go in any direction except east with heritage hill stopping demolition for increased density.

[torgo]

Andy,

Actually, you should note that Riverhouse is commercial/residential. The first 6 floors will be office space.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? Huh...thats news to me! I thought is was all residential.

And GRDad, I think our mass transit system is better than most (and you probably agree ). Its fairly reliable, but its slow and kinda smelly and doesn't run as often as it probably should. Ridership has been steadily improving, though, so hopefully we can see more use for it around downtown. I also think that ITP should consider doing what Portland does, which is free DASH-style busing for anyone downtown. Fast, clean, cheap, convenient. I think it might help alleviate the parking problem somewhat, especially for those living in and around downtown. But its gotta be expensive to do that.

[GaryP]

I also think that ITP should consider doing what Portland does, which is free DASH-style busing for anyone downtown.

That is a good deal. How do they afford it? Man that would make dt so much better than I think it is already.

[torgo]

I think anything like this happening is a very long time off.  Like many years after these current parking structures crumble to the ground.  It is an interesting topic though, where do you guys think the dt area will expand to next.  It could go in any direction except east with heritage hill stopping demolition for increased density.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think north and south. The river and 131 create too much seperation for downtown to go west.

[GaryP]

I think north and south. The river and 131 create too much seperation for downtown to go west.

I'd agree, but I think GVSU makes west very possible. Also all the stuff on Bridge street is just a stones throw from River House

[GRDadof3]

I think anything like this happening is a very long time off.  Like many years after these current parking structures crumble to the ground.  It is an interesting topic though, where do you guys think the dt area will expand to next.  It could go in any direction except east with heritage hill stopping demolition for increased density.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The key word there is "desirable". I am thinking 15 - 20 years down the road, which I think we owe it to the next generation to leave them a better GR. North Monroe is going to be a completely different place in 10 years, the likes of which will rival neighborhoods in Chicago, Denver, etc.. I have also been thinking that the West side of the river by 6th Street holds real potential. I used to not think so, but there is one building along Front Street between Leonard and 6th that inspires me. It is an old manufacturing building with a great brick front to it. I'll have to take a pic sometime. Other than that, it is just metal distribution buildings built in the 70's, 80's and 90's adding nothing to downtown (except the small employment). Put those companies in Grooters boxes, and let's start building

[torgo]

That is a good deal.  How do they afford it?  Man that would make dt so much better than I think it is already.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Either out of the regular funds, which means mostly paid for by the US Gov't/MI Gov't. They could also consider a special millage in GR, and/or slight tax increase for DDA properties. I think that GR would end up paying for it, since GR is the only municipality getting the explicit benefit of such a service. I have loads of contacts at ITP...I'll hafta ask them about it.

[GaryP]

Either out of the regular funds, which means mostly paid for by the US Gov't/MI Gov't. They could also consider a special millage in GR, and/or slight tax increase for DDA properties. I think that GR would end up paying for it, since GR is the only municipality getting the explicit benefit of such a service. I have loads of contacts at ITP...I'll hafta ask them about it.

I wonder how much that would cost.

Maybe the city could make some bar tax and add a little to drink prices to make the service run late night. I think most of the kids wouldnt mind, especially if they wouldnt have to worry about fiding parking.

[torgo]

I wonder how much that would cost. 

Maybe the city could make some bar tax and add a little to drink prices to make the service run late night.  I think most of the kids wouldnt mind, especially if they wouldnt have to worry about fiding parking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if it was, say, every five minutes and they ran it from 7am to 10 M-TH and maybe later on Fri-sat , they'd dedicate probably 4 or 5 buses...it's be a lot. Probably close to a million or more a year. They have a formula they use for estimating that kind of stuff.

Adding more to drink prices!?! They are already expensive at some **coughcoughblackrosecough** bars. Some kind of special millage/assessment to those property owners who benefit would be a more likely avenue IMO

[MJLO]

Talking about parking, GRCC's Capacity is maxed during the school year. But elsewhere downtown, it seems that there is ample parking. I think a big problem with the new hotel and the riverfront building is a matter of convienience. People arent going to want to park at Ottawa and Fulton, and walk six blocks to work or the hotel they are staying in persay.

[OneSweetWorld]

speakin of chicago (somebody did), how about underground parking? i know its mostly too late, but we could tear down the ramps and build underground ramps, then build builidings over it......

anybody??