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Richmond Grocery Wars


whw53

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17 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

I remember super fresh on Patterson avenue where the dollar tree is now near starling drive. I have seen super fresh up in Delaware and Maryland I think. I also remember farmer jacks and rack n sack.

Yep - I remember Super Fresh. I think it was in the 'next wave' of fairly long-lasting RVA area grocers that came into the market in the '70s and '80s - including Food Lion and one other one the name of which escapes me at the moment. I always liked Food Lion for some reason. :tw_smile:

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More on Midlo Depot from RTD - note the following - 

'Jeff Garrison, a partner for SJC Ventures, declined to identify which grocer will eventually land in that location, but did say that a lease agreement has been signed with a “well-recognized and well-regarded” grocery chain.'

'Well recognized and well regarded' puts me back into the Whole Foods camp . Amazon Fresh is too new to be described as either. 

Whole Foods here, Trader Joes's at Willow Place.

 

https://richmond.com/business/local/new-175-million-midlothian-depot-project-plans-to-bring-grocery-store-restaurants-and-shops-to/article_a18fe1af-098a-50f1-aa59-06b9be175fde.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

 

Edited by whw53
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  • 2 weeks later...

ok this one looking really much like a Fresh which swings me back on the other 2 locations discussed above some but still not 100% convinced that these are all related -  someone out there reading this knows im sure cmon break these mystery grocers for us. 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/10/13/another-mystery-grocer-in-store-for-chesterfield-this-time-at-winterpock-crossing/

 

Edited by whw53
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2 hours ago, whw53 said:

ok this one looking really much like a Fresh which swings me back on the other 2 locations discussed above some but still not 100% convinced that these are all related -  someone out there reading this knows im sure cmon break these mystery grocers for us. 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/10/13/another-mystery-grocer-in-store-for-chesterfield-this-time-at-winterpock-crossing/

 

Question: Does it really matter? I guess if we get an Amazon Fresh then I can see that being a big thing...but any other grocery is just "add it to the list of many." Especially in some of these already saturated locations like off of Broad near Willow Lawn.

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11 hours ago, whw53 said:

ok this one looking really much like a Fresh which swings me back on the other 2 locations discussed above some but still not 100% convinced that these are all related -  someone out there reading this knows im sure cmon break these mystery grocers for us. 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/10/13/another-mystery-grocer-in-store-for-chesterfield-this-time-at-winterpock-crossing/

 

There’s no question that all three of these mystery stores are Amazon Freshes. 

Edited by eandslee
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  • 1 month later...

RTD: BJ's Wholesale Club opens new location in Midlothian Friday

https://richmond.com/business/local/bjs-wholesale-club-opens-new-location-in-midlothian-friday/article_c264773b-84b1-5da1-bee9-96ae52e55d3b.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

off Hull at 288 - i consider that more Mosely than Midlothian but either way this will be the 3rd BJ's location in  our metro and the only location south of the James. 

Edited by whw53
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  • 1 month later...
53 minutes ago, whw53 said:

Heard a rumor over the weekend that Wegmans is looking at a site for a 3rd location in our metro (2nd in Chesterfield) off 360 west of Magnolia Green. Would be a good location especially with the Powhite extension set to intersect in the vicinity - (see today's Bizsense.)

Aw man…was hoping you might say that they were planning a new urban store at the base of the 17-story towers (Avery Hall) on the Manchester riverfront!  

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Wegmans doesn't shy away from urban formats even with their size - look at Tysons, Reston, Alexandria for examples. I think it's not unreasonable to hope for that one day. I am hoping for the promise of a grocery at the Loving site north of Broad in the Bottom means Wegmans. 

If not there I could see them opening somewhere East End and\or beyond at some point - close to White Oak or Mechanicsville...

Edited by whw53
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3 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Not surprised... lots of rooftops out that way. How would an urban format align with their typical demos? In Richmond, they've picked locations tucked into high household income areas with lots of rooftops. Tyson's, Reston, Alexandria are a different consumer profile than Shockoe Bottom. Honestly, I'd be happy if Kroger, Publix, Food Lion you name it put a store in the Bottom and in Manchester. Amazed we can't even muster an Aldi in either location.

I'm guessing NOVA's "income density" (i.e. - the combination of population density and income level) makes a big difference.

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yea those examples, while urban in format, exist in completely different socio-ecnomic context - i agree. But....a lot of factors maybe . Wegmans is a little different . Being a destination grocery - not a neighborhood grocery per se -  they do not need to sit right on top of their customer base - people will drive past other groceries. Additionally, In Nova for a new operator their size there was no available land or shells left really for a a new entrant to swoop in - they were forced into the urban concept by nature of the real estate market i'd think...BUT important to understand that the urban fornat locations that i listed are in the well to doer areas given the rents that can be charged for redeveloping the land.  But they aren't limited to that - other locations are  a couple rungs down in Woodbridge, lower Alexandria near Springfield etc. All I'm saying is they check the boxes of diverse socio economic locales and they build urban formats. Maybe they could combine the 2 pattens and make it work here.

mind you it wouldn't be an 'East End; location but a location more to the center of the metro region when you consider their existing locations - easily accessible from 95\64. I don't know - maybe I've just concocted these talking points because I want it so bad. Forget small area plan - A Wegmans would single handedly revitalize Shockoe in a single swoop. 

Anyway - i think we will get a grocery here. It will probably be an Aldi though. I don't think Kroger would plant another location so close to their Carver Lombardy spot. Food Lion would be a good fit but they don't seem interested in downtown markets. Publix idk - they seem too upscale but maybe. 

Edited by whw53
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27 minutes ago, whw53 said:

yea those examples, while urban in format, exist in completely different socio-ecnomic context - i agree. But....a lot of factors maybe . Wegmans is a little different . Being a destination grocery - not a neighborhood grocery per se -  they do not need to sit right on top of their customer base - people will drive past other groceries. Additionally, In Nova for a new operator their size there was no available land or shells left really for a a new entrant to swoop in - they were forced into the urban concept by nature of the real estate market i'd think...BUT important to understand that the urban fornat locations that i listed are in the well to doer areas given the rents that can be charged for redeveloping the land.  But they aren't limited to that - other locations are  a couple rungs down in Woodbridge, lower Alexandria near Springfield etc. All I'm saying is they check the boxes of diverse socio economic locales and they build urban formats. Maybe they could combine the 2 pattens and make it work here.

mind you it wouldn't be an 'East End; location but a location more to the center of the metro region when you consider their existing locations - easily accessible from 95\64. I don't know - maybe I've just concocted these talking points because I want it so bad. Forget small area plan - A Wegmans would single handedly revitalize Shockoe in a single swoop. 

Anyway - i think we will get a grocery here. It will probably be an Aldi though. I don't think Kroger would plant another location so close to their Carver Lombardy spot. Food Lion would be a good fit but they don't seem interested in downtown markets. Publix idk - they seem too upscale but maybe. 

I don't think a well-designed grocery store - particularly integrated into a good, well-designed urban format - would be outside the guidelines of the SAP for, say, Shockoe Bottom. As long as we're not talking about a wide, flat, one-story building (whether warehouse type or not) and oodles of parking, I'd be happy. No doubt, it costs more to integrate a grocer into a larger overall development, whether it's a ground-level of a bigger residential building or in a true mixed-use building. Or even as a stand-alone, perhaps with multiple levels rather than a single-floor footprint - integrated into a block of development.

My hope for Manchester is that we could snag a decent grocer to go into the ground floor of a much larger development that would be part of a cohesive "downtown Manchester" kind of design. I absolutely DON'T want any portion of those four square city blocks of the parcel to be turned into a one-story flat store surrounded by parking - or even with an integrated parking deck. There needs to be more than JUST the store wherever it's built.

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52 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

I don't think a well-designed grocery store - particularly integrated into a good, well-designed urban format - would be outside the guidelines of the SAP for, say, Shockoe Bottom. As long as we're not talking about a wide, flat, one-story building (whether warehouse type or not) and oodles of parking, I'd be happy. No doubt, it costs more to integrate a grocer into a larger overall development, whether it's a ground-level of a bigger residential building or in a true mixed-use building. Or even as a stand-alone, perhaps with multiple levels rather than a single-floor footprint - integrated into a block of development.

My hope for Manchester is that we could snag a decent grocer to go into the ground floor of a much larger development that would be part of a cohesive "downtown Manchester" kind of design. I absolutely DON'T want any portion of those four square city blocks of the parcel to be turned into a one-story flat store surrounded by parking - or even with an integrated parking deck. There needs to be more than JUST the store wherever it's built.

I think what you’re describing is something similar to the Publix in Carytown. 

088198BC-98D7-4E74-B92B-CA4596322A36.jpeg

Edited by Hike
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44 minutes ago, Hike said:

I think what you’re describing is something similar to the Publix in Carytown. 

088198BC-98D7-4E74-B92B-CA4596322A36.jpeg

Hmmm…I’m thinking that he’s talking about something more like Whole Foods at Pentagon City…unless you are reading that Carytown is NOT the way to do it (I read it the opposite way).  Whole Foods Pentagon City:

 

FF90DFDD-7D1F-48A3-8FF1-77E919269EAE.jpeg

C33282CF-78B1-43DC-83CC-9566D6978881.jpeg

Edited by eandslee
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On the grocery topic, has anyone heard any intel on the new “mystery grocer” at Willow Place in the old Food Lion space? I was by there recently and the space for the new HomeGoods is completely gutted and there’s significant work going on with the rest of the center. 
 

I live pretty close to here so curious who’s coming in…

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4 hours ago, eandslee said:

Hmmm…I’m thinking that he’s talking about something more like Whole Foods at Pentagon City…unless you are reading that Carytown is NOT the way to do it (I read it the opposite way).  Whole Foods Pentagon City:

 

FF90DFDD-7D1F-48A3-8FF1-77E919269EAE.jpeg

C33282CF-78B1-43DC-83CC-9566D6978881.jpeg

YESSS!!!!  image.png.77f2af0ef392bb4bac5949af0cf5a9db.png  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

 

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9 hours ago, eandslee said:

Hmmm…I’m thinking that he’s talking about something more like Whole Foods at Pentagon City…unless you are reading that Carytown is NOT the way to do it (I read it the opposite way).  Whole Foods Pentagon City:

 

FF90DFDD-7D1F-48A3-8FF1-77E919269EAE.jpeg

C33282CF-78B1-43DC-83CC-9566D6978881.jpeg

That’s nice! Doubt that scale of building is coming here. If you take the Publix in Carytown, add “x” number of apartments on top, it’s in essence what this is, just a smaller scale, there’s a parking deck within, it’s tight to the street, wanted to show there’s a project here that’s not just a single story, 4 block flat roof with a sea of parking surrounding the grocery store. 

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8 hours ago, benstyree said:

On the grocery topic, has anyone heard any intel on the new “mystery grocer” at Willow Place in the old Food Lion space? I was by there recently and the space for the new HomeGoods is completely gutted and there’s significant work going on with the rest of the center. 
 

I live pretty close to here so curious who’s coming in…

Rumor on the street is Amazon Fresh

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2 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Rumor on the street is Amazon Fresh

On a personal note (just my opinion), I think Amazon Fresh stores are horrible. It’s very high tech (no doubt about that, which is kind of cool), but the prices are very expensive and the selection is terrible (you wouldn’t think that’s be the case given that it’s Amazon).  I don’t know, that’s been my experience up here in NOVA.  Usually not many shoppers in the stores either because most people order online and workers are usually fulfilling orders in the store (a good thing?).  Just very different.  I’d never shop there for weekly groceries - no way.   I’d like to know what you all think when you get the chance to shop there once. 

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