301 College Street High-rise mixed use development

[GVLer]

I don't want to speculate as to the highest and best use. Nor am I an expert on traffic impact. But having hundreds of residents trying to get in and out of access points so close to Academy seems like a challenge. I foresee traffic backups that span more than one light change. But what the hell do I know. 

[gman]

28 minutes ago, gman430 said:

 

Unless you’re living or working there, I don’t see why this would be an issue to worry about. A traffic impact study is currently being done for the development. What would you propose instead for the site? 

 

1 hour ago, GVLer said:

I paid more attention to this site when driving by today. The area between Academy and the Canvas building is quite shallow. Ingress and Egress will be problematic. I really really like the design (but hate how Canvas looks in tandem). I hate to say this, but I am not sure this is the right project for that particular site. 

I agree. I just don’t see this project being approved because of the traffic situation and because it is out of place in that area of downtown. I am afraid Canvas is stuck with the awful looking old BB&T building (except for the artwork) and the worst parking “garage” in Greenville. 

[NewlyUpstate]

32 minutes ago, GVLer said:

I don't want to speculate as to the highest and best use. Nor am I an expert on traffic impact. But having hundreds of residents trying to get in and out of access points so close to Academy seems like a challenge. I foresee traffic backups that span more than one light change. But what the hell do I know. 

If I'm looking at the submittal correctly, the traffic will all go on college headed away from downtown. I commute past there every afternoon and it's really not busy at all on that side of Academy. It'll be annoying for drivers who are trying to get back downtown though

[gman430]

42 minutes ago, NewlyUpstate said:

If I'm looking at the submittal correctly, the traffic will all go on college headed away from downtown. I commute past there every afternoon and it's really not busy at all on that side of Academy. It'll be annoying for drivers who are trying to get back downtown though

I was looking at Google Streetview and I can see why getting out of the current garage onto Buncombe is such a pain. The visibility is terrible. It looks like that will be greatly improved with the new garage as it will be further set back from the road. It also looks like the main entrance and exit will be on College while the one on Buncombe will be for loading and unloading only. Notice the industrial roll up doors on this side in the DRB application. 
 

edit: The community meeting  held last month confirms that the entrance and exit along Buncombe is going to be for loading and unloading only. The residences entrance and exit will be on College only. Nobody seemed concerned with the height at this meeting also.

Edited December 30, 2022 by gman430

[distortedlogic]

3 hours ago, gman430 said:

These are just staff comments. Has nothing to do with the actual board. Different group of people. The DRB approved Camperdown and Gateway site with no reduction in height. It was the PC that reduced the height of County Square not the DRB. Height isn’t really a big concern anyways with the current board members. The pedestrian realm (width of sidewalks, retail space, plantings, lighting, seating) is the most important issue. 

Also, I emailed the Beach Company and the response back I got was that they have no plans to reduce the height and add an underground garage. They are sticking with their current plans. With how much they worked with city staff before submitting their current proposal I don’t see why they would need to change anything. 

I thought the staff we are talking about was the DRB staff...

[gman430]

23 minutes ago, distortedlogic said:

I thought the staff we are talking about was the DRB staff...

We are and it is. The staff though is not one of the five board members of the DRB. The staff just makes recommendations to how the board should vote. Same goes with the Planning Commission. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by gman430

[GvilleSC]

The staff basically interprets the governing ordinances and provides a frame work for the board to review the application in context.
 

The city’s zoning codes are going to be changing at some point in the coming year (presumably spring). Some things that may not be adherent to the current zoning codes could be permitted under the new rules when they are approved. Just food for thought. 

[apaladin]

7 hours ago, GVLer said:

I don't want to speculate as to the highest and best use. Nor am I an expert on traffic impact. But having hundreds of residents trying to get in and out of access points so close to Academy seems like a challenge. I foresee traffic backups that span more than one light change. But what the hell do I know. 

…. and of course those hundreds of residence will never stay home or be gone they will all just continuously try to leave and enter all at the same time.

[vicupstate]

How does the height f this building compare to the Cancel building (formerly Bank of America building?  Given the proximity to that building and the Landmark building, I honestly don't see the issue with the height of this new building. It's not like there are SFHs that close by.

[distortedlogic]

1 hour ago, vicupstate said:

How does the height f this building compare to the Cancel building (formerly Bank of America building?  Given the proximity to that building and the Landmark building, I honestly don't see the issue with the height of this new building. It's not like there are SFHs that close by.

Here is the "Top 10"

1. Landmark  -               325

2. Camperdown Office       - 250

3. BoA -                         228

4. One Liberty Sq -        218

5. Towers East -            192

6. Two Liberty Sq -        174

7. One North -               173

8. One South-               170

9. Poinsett Plaza -         167

10. Aloft Hotel -                167

[vicupstate]

^^ So 100' shorter than Landmark and essentially the same height as the old BofA building. 

The DRB should approve it with the staff comments EXCEPT for #1, which should be dropped. 

[gman]

I want taller buildings as much as anyone. but I hope the DRB will consider the location near the library and the art museums and the traffic situation and either lower the height  or deny it completely. That building will be out of place for its location. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by gman

[gman430]

24 minutes ago, gman said:

I want taller buildings as much as anyone. but I hope the DRB will consider the location near the library and the art museums and the traffic situation and either lower the height  or deny it completely. That building will be out of place for its location. 

Out of place? The landmark building is only two blocks away, the Canal building is only one block away, and the site is in the CBD while being zoned C-4 along a major four lane highway. The site is zoned that by the city because it’s made for height and density. Even the mayor understands that. Are we allowed to build tall buildings anywhere downtown? You were against UCB and County Square being tall also. 

And what traffic situation? The main entrance and exit is along College Street which isn’t even that bad traffic wise. The entrance and exit along Buncombe is only going to be for loading and unloading like trash pickup. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by gman430

[gman]

51 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Out of place? The landmark building is only two blocks away, the Canal building is only one block away, and the site is in the CBD while being zoned C-4 along a major four lane highway. The site is zoned that by the city because it’s made for height and density. Even the mayor understands that. Are we allowed to build tall buildings anywhere downtown? You were against UCB and County Square being tall also. 

And what traffic situation? The main entrance and exit is along College Street which isn’t even that bad traffic wise. The entrance and exit along Buncombe is only going to be for loading and unloading like trash pickup. 

There are places for taller buildings in the central business district. Sorry, but the library area is not one of those places. Just my opinion, that’s all. 

[vicupstate]

3 minutes ago, gman said:

There are places for taller buildings in the central business district. Sorry, but the library area is not one of those places. Just my opinion, that’s all. 

The Canvas building itself is far taller than anything in Heritage Green.  Putting 264 residences in close proximity to Heritage Green will add a lot of vitality to it.  Currently, it really isn't that active with pedestrians.    

[motonenterprises]

28 minutes ago, gman said:

There are places for taller buildings in the central business district. Sorry, but the library area is not one of those places. Just my opinion, that’s all. 

I disagree. This is a gateway and it is zoned for this. It's even less likely to get built in CBD which has all kinds of rules regarding height.

[gman430]

**soapbox on**

I am baffled why it’s okay for cities all of over the country from Seattle to Austin to Atlanta to Charlotte to Miami to get high-rises but not Greenville. There is nothing historic about Greenville either. It’s not Charleston or Savannah so don’t bring up that argument. Omaha is getting a new 677 foot tall building and Austin is getting two above 1,000 feet tall but 229 feet here is too tall.  Give me a break. Greenville is not a small town anymore. Stop trying to make it seem like it is. 

Oh and give us a 400 footer already I say. Put it in the West End also just to piss off the NIMBY’s even more.  

**soapbox off**

Edited January 1, 2023 by gman430

[distortedlogic]

2 hours ago, gman430 said:

**soapbox on**

I am baffled why it’s okay for cities all of over the country from Seattle to Austin to Atlanta to Charlotte to Miami to get high-rises but not Greenville. There is nothing historic about Greenville either. It’s not Charleston or Savannah so don’t bring up that argument. Omaha is getting a new 677 foot tall building and Austin is getting two above 1,000 feet tall but 229 feet here is too tall.  Give me a break. Greenville is not a small town anymore. Stop trying to make it seem like it is. 

Oh and give us a 400 footer already I say. Put it in the West End also just to piss off the NIMBY’s even more.  

**soapbox off**

It's an interesting discussion for sure. Except Charleston and Savannah, as you mentioned,  I can't think of a peer city that doesn't have more height than we do. I know we've had the discussion on demand and buildable lots before, but those same conditions apply to all our peer cities as well, and they have all managed to build more height than Greenville, and many without the growth we have had.

The " it is out of scale for the area " argument is interesting as well. The only reason these taller buildings are out of scale is because we have so many low rises. If we could get a few taller ones they wouldn't be out of scale anymore. It's going to happen eventually. 

Now as I've said before, I am not obsessed with having tall buildings at all, but I would like to see a couple, especially one taller and better looking than the Daniel/Landmark. That really isn't too much to ask or even very tall. I would actually put architecture above height but a couple tallish buildings aren't going to hurt anything; we're only talking about maybe 400 ft here, not 1000+.

 

 

[gman430]

Yeah, it’s weird to see so many people against high-rises and downtown economic development in general here. You don’t see it in other cities minus the historic ones so why is it occurring here? It’s just odd. We didn’t have this issue 15 years ago so why now? Maybe people are trying to keep Greenville with that small town feel due to Main Street which is honestly a lost cause in my opinion. Who knows. If that’s the case, then those same people are actually helping contribute to suburban sprawl and traffic instead of fighting it. If they would do some research, they would realize that. And I don’t think it’s out of scale at all with the current high-rises already built. It’s just expanding the skyline a little west. That’s all. It matches up perfectly in height. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by gman430

[PuppiesandKittens]

For the issue of residents causing traffic problems: wouldn’t many of them work downtown?  If so, is Greenville so addicted to driving that they’d drive to work downtown instead of walking short distances? Unfortunately I assume that the answer is “yes”, but even then, at least the total number of vehicle-miles added to Greenville roads would be lower than if this were a suburban development, so I still favor it.

[gman430]

If it’s approved, construction is slated to start in Fall 2023. 

[gman430]

You can watch the DRB meeting for today here starting at 4pm: 

https://cityofgreenville.webex.com/ec3300/eventcenter/mobile/eventInfoMobile.do?siteurl=cityofgreenville&confID=247378712084910804&meetingKey=23369113182&backUrl=%2Fmw3300%2Fwireless%2Fmeetinglist.do%3Fsiteurl%3Dcityofgreenville&t=a&MTID=ebcc5c487435d73e04dab03e948f11e85&rnd=0.7785199149087926&isIPADAsMobile=null&fromModernViewMobile=null

You will need to download the Cisco Webex Meetings app if you haven’t already to view the meeting. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by gman430

[GvilleSC]

I think it's interesting to reflect back on Sasaki's master plan for downtown from the 2000's. You could say that some fulfillment is inevitable with growth, but we're really seeing the concept of "5 Corners" coming to fruition. 301 College Street really emphasizes this, as momentum has not been in favor of this area of downtown for some time.  Some perspective from recent development and current proposals:

Gateway

• Memorial Auditorium site redevelopment proposal
• East North Street gateway study/planning

Broad + River

• Camperdown development
• United Community Bank HQ
• Grand Bohemian Lodge

County Square

• County administrative building and full site redevelopment underway

Heritage Green

• Canvas development phase I
• 301 College Street proposal

Warehouse 

• West End development in general, but we're really seen an uptick in residential density 

[gman430]

I am attending the meeting today in person. I will let you all know how it goes. Hopefully it doesn’t drag on for ten hours. 

[gman430]

Only appears to be about 25 people here of the general public with most of them in regards to 319 Rhett Street. More people overall with the city, developers, and media for sure. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by gman430