Belmont @ Freemason Progress

[johnhowell]

Vdogg posted this here: http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p...679#post4386679

I'm not sure why he didn't post it here.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story...7469&ran=162017

NORFOLK

[vdogg]

Vdogg posted this here: http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p...679#post4386679

I'm not sure why he didn't post it here.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story...7469&ran=162017

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, it was already posted but not by me. It's in the development thread but i may just move all post related to that here since people may be missing it in Norfolk development (and all it's 46 pages of glory ).

[vdogg]

moved

[Glassoul]

Ok, so what letter does that correspond to on the map? Which one is the highrise?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

vdogg,

As you have them numbered, they are currently backwards. It should be:

A = Row condo units

B = High rise.

If you look at the property highlight from the pilot article, you will see the high rise fronts Brambleton, as well further down in the article it mentions a possible pedestrian crossover on York St connecting the two.

I agree with you though, I definately liked the older renderings for sure. I thought the colonial architecture fit in quite nicely with the Freemason area. I wonder what made them change their minds? While the prices have increased, the total number of units has remained the same from the original two 7 story proposal.

[vdogg]

vdogg,

As you have them numbered, they are currently backwards.  It should be A = Row condo units & B = High rise. If you look at the property highlight from the pilot you will see the high rise fronts Brambleton, as well as the article mentioning a possible pedestrian crossover on York St.

I agree with you though, I definately liked the older renderings for sure. It fit in with the Freemason area quite nicely I thought. I wonder what made them change their minds, since the total number of units appears to be the same, but the prices have increased.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that Granby caused them to rethink their strategy a bit. I think the demand for "highrise" living is so high downtown that they felt they should probably offer something with a view to stay competitive.

[vdogg]

vdogg,

As you have them numbered, they are currently backwards.  It should be:

A = Row condo units

B = High rise.

If you look at the property highlight from the pilot article, you will see the high rise fronts Brambleton, as well further down in the article it mentions a possible pedestrian crossover on York St connecting the two.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, it looks like i'm gonna have to retool both parts then. I'm leaving the pics up until they come along with a new rendering though. I just like looking at them.

(Not too mention that they'll probably incorporate a lot of the old design into the new one. At least we'll have an idea what they're working towards).

[baobabs727]

I hate to be the only one who isn't exactly thrilled about this proposal, but what the heck. I have serious concerns about the appropriateness of erecting a 20 story building on what is essentially the edge of the Historic Freemason District. While I realize that this particular quadrant of Freemason is a mixed bag of office, retail, institutional and residential, one must be ever-wary of treading too heavily on this venerable District. Norfolk has allowed zoning irregularities in Freemason in the past--with alarming results.

Freemason represents all that is most treasured of Federalist Norfolk--true urban living on the Elizabeth River in an ancient setting of cobblestones, pediments and gas lamps. Accordingly, the City of Norfolk and the Design Review Committee must act with extreme caution when reviewing any proposals made by the developers for this parcel. Again, the key question is what is appropriate for this particular setting? While we all love high-rise development (that's why we are here, right?!), we must remain sensitive to the particular physical and historical setting of any proposed project--no matter how tall or enticing!

[vdogg]

I hate to be the only one who isn't exactly thrilled about this proposal, but what the heck. I have serious concerns about the appropriateness of erecting a 20 story building on what is essentially the edge of the Historic Freemason District. While I realize that this particular quadrant of Freemason is a mixed bag of office, retail, institutional and residential, one must be ever-wary of treading too heavily on this venerable District.  Norfolk has allowed zoning irregularities in Freemason in the past--with alarming results.

Freemason represents all that is most treasured of Federalist Norfolk--true urban living on the Elizabeth River in an ancient setting of cobblestones, pediments and gas lamps.  Accordingly, the City of Norfolk and the Design Review Committee must act with extreme caution when reviewing any proposals made by the developers for this parcel.  Again, the key question is what is appropriate for this particular setting? While we all love high-rise development (that's why we are here, right?!), we must remain sensitive to the particular physical and historical setting of any proposed project--no matter how tall or enticing!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The lowrise apartments will but up against the freemason district. The highrise will but up against brambleton directly across from the Hague. This will in effect create a corridor or gateway to downtown that should be quite stunning. I think that the very reason they put the lowrises closer to freemason is so the project wouldn't detract from the historical significance of the area. Until there is a rendering i will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they probably took these factors into account.

[baobabs727]

The lowrise apartments will but up against the freemason district. The highrise will but up against brambleton directly across from the Hague. This will in effect create a corridor or gateway to downtown that should be quite stunning. I think that the very reason they put the lowrises closer to freemason is so the project wouldn't detract from the historical significance of the area. Until there is a rendering i will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they probably took these factors into account.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I, too, want to see a site plan and renderings. I do not mind giving anyone the benefit of the doubt; however, I do not believe in championing a cause without first knowing the gritty details.

History cannot always be swept conveniently under the carpet to accomodate our lust for modernity. For example, I remember reading somewhere around here a post by one of our esteemed members indicating his/her desire to see the Federal Courthouse demolished. A chilling thought, indeed. That building is a

masterwork--plain and simple. In fact, Buddy Gadams' Granby Tower was designed to compliment and to pay homage to that deco-inspired ediface.

If the market demand for downtown residential living is as deep as Mayor Fraim believes it to be, Kotarides should be more than willing to be sensitive to the historical context of the site. Norfolk must demand nothing less.

[mistermetaj]

I, too, want to see a site plan and renderings. I do not mind giving anyone the benefit of the doubt; however, I do not believe in championing a cause without first knowing the gritty details.

History cannot always be swept conveniently under the carpet to accomodate our lust for modernity.  For example, I remember reading somewhere around here a post by one of our esteemed members indicating his/her desire to see the Federal Courthouse demolished.  A chilling thought, indeed.  That building is a

masterwork--plain and simple.  In fact, Buddy Gadams' Granby Tower was designed to compliment and to pay homage to that deco-inspired ediface. 

If the market demand for downtown residential living is as deep as Mayor Fraim believes it to be, Kotarides should be more than willing to be sensitive to the historical context of the site. Norfolk must demand nothing less.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I for one have been lobbying for tearing down city hall (honestly, i dont know the difference between city hall and the courthouses, so this may be a pointless response) which i believe someone said was a possibility. Now i dont know if that is what you are referring to or not, but if it is, I would definitely not call that a masterwork, more like bland sixtys architecture. It has no historical significance in the area, just a damper on the whole skyline. It definitely lacks a deco-inspired ediface or any character what so ever.

[willy]

I read this morning and just knew you guys would be all over it like flies on $h!+, LOL.

Anyway, this 18-20 story building will continue on with what many of us have dubbed "midtown" quite nicely. If things continue with the downtown housing being so hot, we might see this tower grow a few floors before it's all said and done.

Man, I just wonder when we will get the respect we deserve?

[Glassoul]

Well I for one have been lobbying for tearing down city hall (honestly, i dont know the difference between city hall and the courthouses, so this may be a pointless response) which i believe someone said was a possibility.  Now i dont know if that is what you are referring to or not, but if it is, I would definitely not call that a masterwork, more like bland sixtys architecture.  It has no historical significance in the area, just a damper on the whole skyline.  It definitely lacks a deco-inspired ediface or any character what so ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your confusing Norfolk City Hall and the city courts system along St. Pauls Blvd. with the Federal court building on Granby street. The Federal court building is a marvelous art-deco example that was designed by a renowned local architect. To read more of it's history visit here

[okinawatyphoon]

I read this morning and just knew you guys would be all over it like flies on $h!+, LOL.

Anyway, this 18-20 story building will continue on with what many of us have dubbed "midtown" quite nicely. If things continue with the downtown housing being so hot, we might see this tower grow a few floors before it's all said and done.

Man, I just wonder when we will get the respect we deserve?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw the map and all, but is this tower going to be close to Granby Tower, or closer to Fort Norfolk? I don't want our Granby Tower to be all by itself, haha.

[Seven Cities]

You know what the sad part of all of this is? We'll probably see a rendering on this before we do the Hilton.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are probably right about that and at the rate that things are going, I wouldnt be surprised if this building is up before the Hilton.

I do agree with vdogg, I like the design of the original 7 story buildings. It kind of had an Asian flair to it. But as with other DT Norfolk projects, it should be interesting to see how this plays out. Look at the changes that Granby Tower went through before a concrete annoucement came out.

[willy]

I saw the map and all, but is this tower going to be close to Granby Tower, or closer to Fort Norfolk? I don't want our Granby Tower to be all by itself, haha.

Take another look, do you see the proposed site outlined in red? Count over two blocks directly to the right, that is the block where Granby is going to be built. The Granby will be built on the right side of that block, the left side is where the existing AT&T building is located.

I think that some of the new tower MIGHT be visible along with the Granby in this picture. It would be just off to the right.

[vdogg]

I think that some of the new tower MIGHT be visible along with the Granby in this picture. It would be just off to the right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The lowrise portion would be visible, the highrise portion would be just off the right of the pic.

[rusthebuss]

Well we know that it will least be 18 months till they even start on this project. I hope they will acquire the other piece of land for the project. I don't think it will do anything to the freemason district because the land they are using is parking spaces.

[willy]

And I think an 18-20 story high-rise is waaaaaay better than a parking lot. If anything, it will add more density and urban feel to that part of Freemason. There aren't leveling 20 historic homes for this project, it's just parking spaces.

[rusthebuss]

And I think an 18-20 story high-rise is waaaaaay better than a parking lot. If anything, it will add more density and urban feel to that part of Freemason. There aren't leveling 20 historic homes for this project, it's just parking spaces.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with that. It's just converting a old parking lot into a nice site for the city. I can't wait to hear what will be next!!!! Come on DT plaza and bring us some new high rises!!!!!!

[urbanlife]

And I think an 18-20 story high-rise is waaaaaay better than a parking lot. If anything, it will add more density and urban feel to that part of Freemason. There aren't leveling 20 historic homes for this project, it's just parking spaces.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have wanted to see something there for so long, also wanted to see something happen with the street configuration there too.

[Merrittk92]

I read this morning and just knew you guys would be all over it like flies on $h!+, LOL.

Anyway, this 18-20 story building will continue on with what many of us have dubbed "midtown" quite nicely. If things continue with the downtown housing being so hot, we might see this tower grow a few floors before it's all said and done.

Man, I just wonder when we will get the respect we deserve?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Willy! Take finger, place on nose. I think 18 months gives them a great deal of flexibility as to deciding the final scope of the project. Judging by recent events, I wouldn't be surprised to see it gain a floor or two. B)

[rusthebuss]

Willy! Take finger, place on nose.   I think 18 months gives them a great deal of flexibility as to deciding the final scope of the project. Judging by recent events, I wouldn't be surprised to see it gain a floor or two. B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would be nice if it made it to the 25 story range. They said there is a major demand for housing in the DT area, which is why i don't understand why they are building some low rise condos DT.

[vdogg]

It would be nice if it made it to the 25 story range. They said there is a major demand for housing in the DT area, which is why i don't understand why they are building some low rise condos DT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the lowrise/highrise mix is actually what gives Norfolk it's flavor. It allows us to keep a pedestrian friendly environment while still letting you know you're in a major ctiy.

[Glassoul]

I think the lowrise/highrise mix is actually what gives Norfolk it's flavor. It allows us to keep a pedestrian friendly environment while still letting you know you're in a major ctiy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Bigger does not always equate to better. As always, its important to look at what the renderings will look like, but what was originally proposed seemed to be a perfect fit for that spot. Two 7 story buildings seemed to present a nice transition. As well, the taller building is not resulting in any changes in the number of available units from the previous proposal.

One of the nice things about HR is that it still respects older architectural styles, in that if you see a lot of the buildings going up, they have strong elements of colonial or federal design in them, which ties in not only with the surrounding homes, but also with the history of the area. The Granby tower being constructed with some art-deco elements is very appropriate. A 20+ story tower on the cusp of the oldest buildings in Norfolk is not.

[baobabs727]

Agreed. Bigger does not always equate to better. As always, its important to look at what the renderings will look like, but what was originally proposed seemed to be a perfect fit for that spot. Two 7 story buildings seemed to present a nice transition. As well, the taller building is not resulting in any changes in the number of available units from the previous proposal.

One of the nice things about HR is that it still respects older architectural styles, in that if you see a lot of the buildings going up, they have strong elements of colonial or federal design in them, which ties in not only with the surrounding homes, but also with the history of the area. The Granby tower being constructed with some art-deco elements is very appropriate. A 20+ story tower on the cusp of the oldest buildings in Norfolk is not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, Glassoul, for your reason and eloquence.

Gang: I would be just as upset if some developer were proposing to throw up rowhouses (lowrise) on the Hilton site, for that would be equally inappropriate.

I, for one, do not agree that "anything" (to paraphrase) would be better than a parking lot! Again, if this city-owned parcel is so attractive to developers, a best-use project will come along soon enough.