Belmont @ Freemason Progress

[urbanfan]

I wonder how this will tie in with the light rail system...

The light rail runs down york street. Depending on where the high rise is the light rail could run right through the garage. It looks like the light rail will actually run right through the bottom floor of the garage for the building, I could be wrong though.

[gosscj]

The light rail runs down york street. Depending on where the high rise is the light rail could run right through the garage. It looks like the light rail will actually run right through the bottom floor of the garage for the building, I could be wrong though.

Really? Could you see that in the rendering or is there another source of information on that? That would certainly be awesome though.

[br0guy]

I wonder how this will tie in with the light rail system...

This is the footprint for the LRT station at the Kotarides building that HRT has (which I'm sure will have to be modified):

[urbanfan]

This is the footprint for the LRT station at the Kotarides building that HRT has (which I'm sure will have to be modified):

Exactly, I assume that the tower portion being slender will be on the slender portion of land at the top, with the garage and four story buildings overflowing on to the larger plot of land below with the light rail running right below it.

[rusthebuss]

WOW. I love the light rail component. The building reminds me of a project in Tampa......

Is this building here in your post the Tampa project or is this another rendering of ours?

Never mind I see its nothing like ours!

[urbanvb]

That is a great looking building. I still can hardly believe LR will be a reality for Norfolk one day.

[erdogs]

Light rail should bring alot of developement along it's rout. The kotorides and ghent south prove that. This may be our bussiest year ever.

[vdogg]

Light rail should bring alot of developement along it's rout. The kotorides and ghent south prove that. This may be our bussiest year ever.

Va. Beach must be slapping the hell out of themselves right now. How do u follow a state of the city like this? Meyera better come correct if she wants to match anywhere close to Fraims speech.

[rusthebuss]

Va. Beach must be slapping the hell out of themselves right now. How do u follow a state of the city like this? Meyera better come correct if she wants to match anywhere close to Fraims speech.

Who knows what she has up her sleeve but I think the Oceana thing right now is a bit of a distraction to them.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Who knows what she has up her sleeve but I think the Oceana thing right now is a bit of a distraction to them.

Agreed, but hopefully she has one surprise or two.... then again, Norfolk had 7 (is that the official count? ).

I LOVE the architecture of this project. It'll add a wonderful presence to that section of the skyline.

[erdogs]

you think! sorry, it was a quote from mayor fraim about more residential projects comming.

[rusthebuss]

[urbanlife]

I really like this tower, it will do a great job keeping the Granby tower company. I also like how light rail will work into this.

This tower will be a great urban gateway to West Freemason. It will also help Norfolk seem even more urban. These developments will really make it feel like the center of HR.

[Former Resident of HR]

The rendering looks great! In order to be a true TOD with over 550 parking spaces it had better have at least 688 units!!!

At 250 units it should have no more than 200 parking spaces. OVER 2 spaces per unit is more than typical non-transit exurban developments construct. TOD range is 0.6-0.8 per unit

Well I seriously doubt that people here will spend tons of $$ and not get at least one spot. LR or not, there are not that many people who can depend on HRT for all their transport needs.

[rusthebuss]

Well I seriously doubt that people here will spend tons of $$ and not get at least one spot. LR or not, there are not that many people who can depend on HRT for all their transport needs.

One thing its a starter track and it really doesn't take you around the city so I think the more the development expands and the rail expands you will see less and less parking spaces for these type of developments!

[camberne]

Humphreys & Partners out of TX is doing the design on this project (same architect that is on the Granby Tower project). They seem to be the architect of choice to re-design Norfolk (and I believe they've got a project in Portsmouth as well).

[Former Resident of HR]

One thing its a starter track and it really doesn't take you around the city so I think the more the development expands and the rail expands you will see less and less parking spaces for these type of developments!

Doubtful... These projects are pulling in people who have $$ and most everyone has a car, even us little people. Even in Portland's Pearl District, most places have parking arrangements. The LRT is not going to meet most people's basic transit needs (i.e. getting too and from work and the store) and I am 100% sure that most people would rather die than ride a bus. It's a shame because if HRT could revamp its bus line and have express busses, it could have a comprehensive system that could work. It has taken Portland 20 years to get its LR line running to the point where someone would be able to traverse large portions of the city and its suburbs. We have don't even have final approval yet, so we have a very long way to go...

[lammius]

I'm just saying let's call a spade a spade. Is this thing a TOD or just a condo that happens to be located near a light rail station?

[urbanlife]

nothing wrong with catering a building to a lightrail stop. It is a smart idea just for marketing reasons alone.

[lammius]

Yeah, catering to a light rail stop is a great idea! But how much does this thing really cater to light rail? At more than 2 parking spaces per unit I don't think it does. That's as high or higher than the ITE (institute of transportation engineers) standard for suburban (non-transit) areas. As far as I can tell this thing is not mixed-use (so no live-work or live-shop opportunities). I'm supportive of this thing being a good condo development downtown, but what makes this a TOD? As a TOD advocate I have a problem with something trying to pose as one when it's not one at all.

It's just like how "town centers" were good ideas in planning until developers started attaching the name to the standard suburban shopping centers (see Chesapeake Town Center) thinking the "town center" buzz word would make the standard crap more acceptable. Just add some street trees and "ye olde clocke" to your standard stip mall and you've got a "towne centre." And planning boards fall for it almost every time.

As for this condo, it's a great thing, but call it what it is. It's a nice condo. It's not transit-oriented.

[rusthebuss]

Well the problem is that this will probably be finished before the first rail is in service so you can't just build it without the parking needs. I understand what you are saying but it is TOD in the sense that it runs through the building and could eventually be a park and ride. I would completely agree about the parking if there were two or maybe three buildings doing this but this is the only one to have the LR paired with it so its not going to be exactly what you see in Jersey. Plus this isn't Jersey and we aren't as dense or trying to get to NYC so its going to be a little less in standard to those parking stats up there.

[Former Resident of HR]

I'm just saying let's call a spade a spade. Is this thing a TOD or just a condo that happens to be located near a light rail station?

Like Russ, I see what you are saying but I really think you are "concrete thinking". You see it as very black and white. This is not NJ (which BTW has the highest density in the US). However, this is also one of the first steps in the right direction. Our LR will NEVER be NYC's subway. Oh well. There is no possible way that a new building will be offered in this area without parking. EVER.

If you would open your mind a little you would see that we are moving in another direction down here. I have been in Norfolk for 9 years and the change of attitudes in that short time is astounding. 2/3 of Freemason was parking lots when I moved here.

For us this is TOD. For you it may not be. But this is Norfolk and not NJ. Different things have different meanings so we are happy with what we get. If it is not considered TOD in NJ, SO WHAT? It's the MOST TOD thing we have seen yet here. Let us at least be happy with that.

[lammius]

This isn't a Norfolk vs NJ thing. I just don't want to see a few things happen...

1. Further OVERBUILDING of parking supply downtown, especially when the LRT's biggest hurdle is the perception of parking abundance or deficit downtown. How many of these units will have one resident? Do they need two parking spaces? It costs developers money to overbuild and detracts from the usefulness of space and appearance of a building.

2. TOD/smart growth/etc becoming gimmicks. I'm not so black and white about things in my own life, but in a profession that lives and dies by public opinion and politics, you have to be. When you propose a TOD, town center, or whatever, preconceived public opinion of what that means will save or kill you. I should start a thread in the professionals forum about public meetings and planning boards. they're absurd but they're a part of the process.

I think we're all essentially in agreement over what's important here. Norfolk has turned around a lot since the first Harborfest I remember attending in 1988. It's heading in the right direction and this development is a great step. My only gripe was what I perceived as an improper use of planning vocabulary, that, when summed with other similar misuses, can make a planner's job of communicating intentions more difficult.

[Padman]

We have conflicting issues downtown, if parking scarcity is a function of successful transit operations. Downtown is a big event destination for sports,concerts, shows, opera, festivals and other tourist events. Extra parking is desperately needed in order for these events to continue their successful attraction and growth. It doesn't have to be on-street parking. LRT will not be an adequate substitute for auto travel for these events for the great majority of people in my lifetime. I know that LRT has been a surprisingly big success in St. Louis getting people to sporting events, but that's a much bigger market area. We need more time before we start forcing people to use transit.

[Former Resident of HR]

This isn't a Norfolk vs NJ thing. I just don't want to see a few things happen...

If the spaces are private and reserved for residents and guests, why does it matter? The only spaces that count towards deficit/surplus are those that are open to the public. They are not going to count private spaces in residential buildings towards the total figure. The transit line is proposed as a way to bring workers into downtown from what I understand.

I did not say that you were turning this into NJ vs. Norfolk. What I feel you are doing in most of your posts is looking at Norfolk through NJ colored glasses. We are not the same place. What works there for "yous guys" (not "y'all" :-) is not always going to work for us.

The fact of the matter is that this building will be built on a transit line. The developer does not even know if LR will be approved and when it will be built. Under these circumstances, this is the prudent thing to do. It is as TOD as the current situation allows.