Tallest Skyscraper in the USA will be Southern

[monsoon]

Atlanta currently has the tallest in the South.

Best chance:

1) Atlanta

2) Miami

3) Houston

4) Dallas

5) Charlotte (not in my life)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh, lol. C&S bolted that christmas tree onto the top of the ATL BofA tower (when it was known as the C&S tower) to make it taller than the one in Charlotte.

[A2]

Atlanta currently has the tallest in the South.

Best chance:

1) Atlanta

2) Miami

3) Houston

4) Dallas

5) Charlotte (not in my life)

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No offense ATLman1, I do not get your comment on CLT "not in your life". The reality is that ATL does have the tallest in the SE RIGHT NOW, but ATL's vacancy rates are through the roof, Nearly 20% in their CBD. Most all of Atlanta's previous project have been build on spec. Charlotte's office vacancy is one of the best in the entire US (LESS THAN 8%). I am not saying this to knock you, just to say that Charlotte has a VERY good chance, if not the best chance, out of all the cities listed to get the tallest skraper in the SE. I have already stated that Wachovia is working on a massive $300+Million dollar tower proposal that would go right across from where I work. I would not be shocked at all for Childress Kline to put a 1,000+ foot tower on that lot, simply because they know they already have Wachovia as a Main tenent, plus whatever space Wachovia did not take, they could easily fill with a little marketing. I must also add that BofA is looking at a new shiny tower to be put close to their existing Corporate center.

Here is something SOUTHEASTREBUSINESS.COM (One of the most reliable and trusted real estate resources out there). THis is not just me saying this.

http://www.southeastrebusiness.com/article...highlight1.html

The Charlotte region historically has been recognized as a banking and financial center, primarily due to Bank of America and Wachovia having their headquarters here. Its primary source of growth has been the expansion of those two banks and the ancillary services that have followed them. However, while the banks continue to grow, there has been a new trend in that other Fortune 500 companies have made major relocations and expansions in the city, and Charlotte now is starting a new growth trend that could be reminiscent of those seen in the early 1990s.

"Wachovia Corporation just announced plans for a new 900,000-square-foot downtown office tower that will incorporate a 1,200-seat theatre for the performing arts as well as a residential component. Furthermore, Bank of America has hinted that it is considering another downtown tower in the near future as well. In a downtown market that has approximately 12 million square feet of office space, these two buildings alone would increase the size of that market by more than 15 percent. With the downtown vacancy rate hovering around 8 percent, many real estate professionals believe that now is an opportune time to begin construction of these facilities as they each will take approximately 2 years to build. By then, they will be able to meet the growth needs of the banks and other service providers that are expected to accompany them. "

[Lady Celeste]

I'm really late to this thread. Why have I missed this one? Who knows....

I would like to say that upon reading the various post, I would like to clear up one notion. Cities do not build skyscrapers....developers+demand build skyscrapers. It's not just density that will dictate a need for a skyscraper. If that was the case then Atlanta would not currently have the south's tallest skyscrapper. Now that we understand that cities do not build skyscrapers, I would have to say that the cities with the greatest chance of getting the next tallest in the south are alphabetically listed as:

Atlanta

Charlotte

Dallas

Houston

Miami

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just thought that I would restate this statement.

I read where one person said one city would not have a tallest in their "life time" and another person say one city would not because of high vacancy rates. I don't know what the "not in my life time" person based his personal opinion on but I feel that for anyone who knows about development knows that all it takes is for one corporate to want.....note I did not say need....a taller building for one to get built.

I added Atlanta not because development dictate heights, not office space vacancy. You would think that was the case but it is not the sole basis for building being built. One only has to look at the current amoutn of 500+ footers under constrution in Atlanta right now. When King and Spalding wanted a new headquarters, they could have chosen any of the office space throughout Atlanta. The vacancy rate was not single digits when they were looking for more space. They were already in a trophy tower and could have easily expanded in their current digs.

For whatever reason, they wanted something new. Even in a high vacancy rate climate, they embarked on anchoring a 650' building. Atlanta based Cousins could have easily put their headquarters in the soon to be vacated class A 191 Peachtree tower. This building will have ample space yet Cousins decideds to build a 600' new corporate headquarters in the Buckhead district of Atlanta. Trust me, if vacancy rates were the only reason for building buildings, Atlanta would not currently have 2 600's under construction as we speak.

Yes vacancy rates could have some bearing over if buildings are built but if the development industry is bullish on a particular city then they will go ahead and build. Also important to note, is net absorption. At any one time, one can take a snapshot of a city and capture it during a major shuffle. This is currently goingon in Atlanta's office space. One company leaves to start a new tower, leaving one building with loads of unleased space. Look at that same vacated building new summer and you see that most of the space vacated is leased.

I say all that to say, personal feelings aside, there is no rhyme or reason to having tall skyscrapers built in sprawling southern cities (this excludes Miami since it has definite boundaries) other than because a company wants one. New York or Chicago maybe yes but their southern counterparts...no. Space will not dictate it, office vacancies will not dicate it and definitely not because a forumer feels that a city will not have one build in their life time. It doesn't get any personal than that. If you are being logical about the subject, you can decipher who is speaking from a logical point and who is speaking from a personal point.

Based on what I have written above, Bentonville, Akansas technically could have the tallest if Walmart so chose. The reason why I didn't add this city was not because I thought it could never happen but rather becuse I heard from the CEO's own mouth that building flashy corporate headquarters were not in Walmart's corporate culture. This comment was made when an interviewer asked the CEO about him being in the same office space where Sam Walton had started Walmart.

Who knows what tomorrow holds.....maybe 10 years from now Walmart could embark on a 1200' tower in the middle of Northwest Arkansas.

From what I have heard, Bill Gates and Microsoft also has this same corporate culture.....although they are not in the south and not really germane to southern skyscrapers.

I just felt that we should revisit my post to see that super talls can be built for any number of reasons but mostly because of demand + developers = skyscrapers.

[Lady Celeste]

Oddly enough, here is an article that appears in this weeks edition of the Atlanta Business Chronicle. It further goes into other expanations and also bolsters my claim that building tall buildings has alot to do with developers +demand.....I also forgot to add a main ingredient though.....investors. I was not thinking from the financial side (shame on me as that was my concentration in college) but that also has a major play in why buildings are built.

From the article:

There is growing optimism in the real estate industry, especially as absorption rates inch up and vacancy rates fall.

There's also more money, from more players, in the investment market.

When one tower is sold, the developer has more petty cash on hand and we all know that sometimes this money burns holes in their hands. Then then embark on the next new thing. This has been happening in Atlanta for the last two years. There have been several major towers to change hands. Of note in the Perimeter Center area and the Buckhead District. Some of the office vacancy has come from Atlanta based Bellsouth decided to combine its workforce in new building along the Marta rail line. This unloaded thousands of square feet of office space onto the market in the Perimeter Center and Northlake markets.

The Perimeter Center area has offset it's vacancy rate by switching some of it's focus to retail and residential construction. Many older buildings were or are being demolished and will reemerge as residential and retail.

Anyway, I am a long winded person so let me give you the link to the article.

Investors hot for big office buildings.

Even with her currently high vacancy rates, don't count her down and out. Really noone should count any city out but you can put up valid reasons for why a city may not have the full potential for a new super tall.

We may have to watch out for New Orleans now. Knowing the Donald, he is known for wanting to have to best.....and a super tall in New Orleans is not out of the question.

[A2]

LC you are the smartest poster on UP ! I agree with your reasoning. I guess what blows my mind is the size of the market in Atlanta. I was speaking with atlrvr and Mesian corners about this last week, and their answer back to me was simple. CHARLOTTE IS NOT A SPEC MARKET. It seems wild to think that a developer, let alone a company, would decide to build when vacancies might be high and space CHEAP. But like you said, a lot of companies and developers want a NEW tower. I guess in many ways I am jealous by many of these cities that have this type of market as it's dynamics are unique and drive the develoment of new towers out of the ground. I see Charlotte as a risk adverse city with respect to speculative development. Developers here WANT a SURE thing before the cranes go up. Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, and Chicago all are BIG enough to drive these investors to build, build, and build some more. I think in time Charlotte's market WILL improve, yielding to more spec development, hell even Columbia, SC is building a tower on PURE SPEC !

It will be ten years out though. Once you are on the Radar for REIT's and Private Investors you stay on it. This will be the second wave in Charlotte Developmanet (IMO), as the city begings to expand in Fortune 500 Companies and eventually lands more transplants. I believe that when we hit around 3 Million in the Metro pop and house 11+ Fortune 500 corporations, we will see spec development embrace Charlotte and continue to be a part in shaping an already dynamic and unique skyline.

A2

[Mr.Marc]

hell even Columbia, SC is building a tower on PURE SPEC !

It will be ten years out though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could you elaborate. Where did you hear about this?

[Lady Celeste]

LC you are the smartest poster on UP ! 

I doubt that but I appreciate your very thoughtful compliment. I try to remain partial and look at the facts. I have always had a love for development. Even as a teenage girl.

Again, thank you for your compliment. There are many of you who are very bright. I could name many of you but I am afraid I will miss some.

Now back to the topic at hand, I feel Charlotte is definitely in line to have a super tall.

I'm not familiar with every major business in Charlotte but I am very familiar with four. BOA, Lowes, Wachovia and to a lesser degree, General Electric Corp. The banks are growing immensely. That's why I feel when the one forumer said Charlotte would not have a super tall in his lifetime, he was speaking purely from personal feelings. There is nothing logical in such a statement. He obviously is very young so I didn't feel a need to rebute a child.

Clearly Charlotte has very strong fundamentals.

Cities like Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Chicago and to some degree Miami can get buildings built on spec. Charlotte may not have to amount of investment flowing in at this time but it does have an amazingly low vacancy rate. It also has a burgeoning national cache'. There is one thing that Charlotte has for me adding them to the list. It has an amazing strong corporate culture. One only has to look at the investment in the arts going on in Charlotte. While these ventures seem small to the young mind, what it is doing is setting up a favorable environment for future regional and national investment in Charlotte.

If I had $600 million dollars right now, Charlotte would be my number 1 or 2 choice in the southeast for office and number 3 or 4 for residential development. I am going on pure development fundamentals. I could sway Lowes or GE Capital to anchor such a building. I could even embark on talks with a national hotelier like W or the Four Seasons to add for a mixed use development.

There is alot of rumbling going on dealing with Charlotte. That's why when someone says not in their lifetime, they may want to be careful in such an assertion. Unless they don't plan on living a long time.

[A2]

Could you elaborate. Where did you hear about this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the ten years out part was referring to CLT's spec market improvement. Sorry about the confusion. On the Columbia deal, from what I have heard they are in the process of building a spec office tower (it will only be around 15 stories), but this is from a reliable source.

A2

[Mr.Marc]

the ten years out part was referring to CLT's spec market improvement. Sorry about the confusion. On the Columbia deal, from what I have heard they are in the process of building a spec office tower (it will only be around 15 stories), but this is from a reliable source.

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh well, I thought Columbia would finally have a building that rises above 20 or 25 stories. Thanks anyway.

[A2]

Oh well, I thought Columbia would finally have a building that rises above 20 or 25 stories. Thanks anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is NOT improbable for Columbia to see that happen within the next Three years with cities in the South gaining so much popularity, including Columbia.

A2

[ATLBrain]

I can't believe I did one of these polls.

[Mr.Marc]

It is NOT improbable for Columbia to see that happen within the next Three years with cities in the South gaining so much popularity, including Columbia.

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that I think of it, you're right. I am beginning to meet people from all over the world. I also have a friend that sells Real Esate who told me that most of the homes he is selling now are to transplants.

[where_am_I]

I voted for Atlanta. I think Atlanta is the true business and developmental mecca of the South, although I think Miami or Charlotte would be a great spot for the tallest skyscaper in America.

[goodbye]

With the high-rise building craze in Miami, it is not at all a far-fetched idea. B)

[Plasticman]

Heh, lol.  C&S bolted that christmas tree onto the top of the ATL BofA tower (when it was known as the C&S tower) to make it taller than the one in Charlotte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sort of like those ugly spikes on top of BOA Charlotte?

[Plasticman]

Face it folks. Atlanta is the true hub for transportation and commerce in the SE. As much as I appreciate Charlotte's booming success, it cannot catch Atlanta. That would be like Atlanta trying to catch NY or Chicago. Not going to happen.

[Martinman]

QUOTE(monsoon @ Aug 14 2005, 05:46 AM)

Heh, lol.  C&S bolted that christmas tree onto the top of the ATL BofA tower (when it was known as the C&S tower) to make it taller than the one in Charlotte.

Sort of like those ugly spikes on top of BOA Charlotte?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Btw, this silly urban legend apparently assumes the original design of the building was just a square granite box. It wasn't.

[Lady Celeste]

Btw, this silly urban legend apparently assumes the original design of the building was just a square granite box.  It wasn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, is that what the train of thought is? That BOA attached a top to the building? If I'm not mistaken....and Martiman you can help me with this....but didn't Atlanta pass a "no flat top skyscraper" law back in the late 80's when most of Atlanta's tallest towers (BOA tower, Suntrust Plaza, 191 Peachtree, One Atlantic Center, Promenade and the GLG Grand) were proposed? It may be even before the late 80's but there is a rule against flat top buildings in Atlanta. Until that rule os overturned, you will never see a tall flat topped building built. I think the cap is at 20 stories but I could be wrong.

In saying all that, based on this rule the BOA tower would have been required to have a crown from day one. As far as if it's height was by design I don't know. I do remember the big brouhaha over the fact that NationsBank (BOA) headquarters in Charlotte was not going to be it's tallest building. If I recall correctly again, the BOA tower in Charlotte was completed slightly before the BOA in Atlanta so for a few months Charlotte did have the taller skyscraper.

[ironchapman]

If I'm not mistaken....and Martiman you can help me with this....but didn't Atlanta pass a "no flat top skyscraper" law back in the late 80's when most of Atlanta's tallest towers (BOA tower, Suntrust Plaza, 191 Peachtree, One Atlantic Center, Promenade and the GLG Grand) were proposed?

Yep, i6t was sometime in the mid80's ('86 or '87, I bleieve), because that's when the decoratively topped scrapers started appearing.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea...by no means it isn't, but I do enjoy having all types of scrapers in a skyline (yes even the boring "interantional" ones). It seems to add a bit of diversity an dcharacter to the skyline. Actually, it may have been this law that helped keep Atlanta from being a boring "box-haven".

[Hankster]

Face it folks.  Atlanta is the true hub for transportation and commerce in the SE.  As much as I appreciate Charlotte's booming success, it cannot catch Atlanta.  That would be like Atlanta trying to catch NY or Chicago.  Not going to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you that I don't see Charlotte ever catching Atlanta. However, I don't agree that Atlanta will never catch Chicago. I think Atlanta will catch Chicago in population within 30 years (Imagine the Sprawl!!). However, I'm not sure it will ever catch Chicago's skyline.

[Durhamite]

Whoever mentioned that Charlotte would catch Atlanta in terms of being the SE commerce hub? The subject matter pertains to the tallest skyscraper in the SE. Businesses that build tall buildings are banks and generally, the bigger the bank, the taller the building. Given that Charlotte has two of the largest in the nation as of right now (they may eventually relocate hdqtrs....probably not in the near future), it would not surprise me to see either of the banks surpass ATL in terms of height.

Recall, First Union (prior to the merger with Wachovia), had proposed a 80+ story building in 1999 before the economy steam rolled south due the internet bubble burst in fall of 2000, followed by the 911 catastrophe in 2001.

Don't worry, I live in Durham and I'm very aware of the boosterism in both cities (some good.....some bad). Example, If Atlanta totally dominated the skyline in the south (in terms of height....obviously they have more more bldgs), it could cause complacency. Remember the old addage "Lack of competition breads mediocrity".

[Plasticman]

Whoever mentioned that Charlotte would catch Atlanta in terms of being the SE commerce hub?  The subject matter pertains to the tallest skyscraper in the SE.  Businesses that build tall buildings are banks and generally, the bigger the bank, the taller the building.  Given that Charlotte has two of the largest in the nation as of right now (they may eventually relocate hdqtrs....probably not in the near future), it would not surprise me to see either of the banks surpass ATL in terms of height.

Recall, First Union (prior to the merger with Wachovia), had proposed a 80+ story building in 1999 before the economy steam rolled south due the internet bubble burst in fall of 2000, followed by the 911 catastrophe in 2001.

Don't worry, I live in Durham and I'm very aware of the boosterism in both cities (some good.....some bad).  Example, If Atlanta totally dominated the skyline in the south (in terms of height....obviously they have more more bldgs), it could cause complacency.  Remember the old addage "Lack of competition breads mediocrity".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Point taken. But the fact is the commerce hubs generally have the tallest buildings. For years Peachtree Plaza hotel was tallest in SE. Certainly not a bank. It IS possible for Charlotte to have the tallest. Charlotte certainly has a better chance than say Birmingham, Memphis, or probably Nashville but not nearly as good a chance as Miami, Houston, Dallas, or Atlanta, particularly Atlanta given that it is so centrally located and has such an infrastructure of highways combined with an ever growing International airport much bigger than any other in the Southeast. Another huge terminal has a crane over it now begin built. But if Charlotte did get a 2,000 ft. building, I'd say welcome and give it a look see the next time we drive through Charlotte.

[A2]

Point taken.

[Lady Celeste]

................and in spite of the fact that Atlanta is not in the top six for Distribution and Wholesale Centers.......or the fact that Atlanta has the highest vacancy rate of any major city.......

There are currently:

19 office buildings either under construction, approved or strong proposed.

15 residential buildings either under construction, approved or strong proposed.

3 mixed used highrise developments either under construction, approved or strong proposed.

3 hotels either under construction, approved or strong proposed.

These are of course the buildings twelve stories or higher and have been presented to the city. There are many more not yet announced.

For some reason Atlanta just continues to rise from the ashes. She has this way of doing things against the grain.

Now that I have made that public service announcement plug for Atlanta....

Also might I add:

Plasticman said:

particularly Atlanta given that it is so centrally located and has such an infrastructure of highways combined with an ever growing International airport much bigger than any other in the Southeast.

This has nothing to do with the height of skyscrapers.

Also, the Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson Internation airport is not the south's largest airport. I have seen Orlando's airport and all I can say is wow. Hartsfield-Jackson is however the world's busiest airport in passenger volume and it flip flops with Chicago's O'Hare International Airport when it comes to freight. The most recent numbers, I think, show O'Hare to winner in freight.

That's all I have to say.......

[qwertycc]

Also, the Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson Internation airport is not the south's largest airport. I have seen Orlando's airport and all I can say is wow. Hartsfield-Jackson is however the world's busiest airport in passenger volume and it flip flops with Chicago's O'Hare International Airport when it comes to freight. The most recent numbers, I think, show O'Hare to winner in freight.

That's all I have to say.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

could you post some figures and sources, because I never hear any dispute to Memphis International being the world's largest by far in terms of air freight traffic thanks to FedEx. In fact, excluding international cities, I believe Anchorage, LA, Miami, New York, and Lousiville (UPS air hub), all beat Chicago and Atlanta in terms of freight.

sorry, my post has nothing to do with skyscrapers. I guess I'll add my two cents though. I think a city like Miami has a great chance due to limited building space. However, Houston seems most likely to me with the money in the companies based there and its high average building height for skyscrapers. And they say everything is bigger in Texas.