Downtown

[Florida]

We all know about the burbs, and the malls being built. But perhaps we could bring back a little bit of the past to rekindle some of the old magic downtown used to have, when people had department stores, and entertainment available to them.

I think it would be great to have a nice upscale, contemporary adult jazz club / restaurant on the corner of Monroe and Jefferson where the Seminole Indians wanted to build. That corner could use some light at night, especially right across the street from the Capitol. It would be an entertainment hotspot if planned right.

This is just a start. I think what we need to start doing, while we wait on more High-rise building proposals, is to beautify, and breathe life into the historic structures we have. Perhaps taking a page from the book of such cities as St. Augustine that actually created in the heart of it's downtown, a museum of sorts as somewhat of a flashback to the old. There you can buy chocolate and treats at an old-time bakery/candy shop, souvenieers, straw hats, pottery, ya know... old Florida stuff. We could relocate all companies on Adams between City Hall and College and use those buildings... meanwhile those who occupied the historic buildings on that windy portion of downtown could move into a more modern building. Or perhaps they could stay and we could develop Park Avenue in this way.

or perhaps Park Ave...

[AlaninTally]

I hear from a lot of people when I discuss downtown Tally is that with the condos being built, where is the "neighborhood" grocery store? If the City wants people to live, work and play downtown, then they need a grocery store within walking distance of their fabulous condo. Where would be the perfect location for the downtown Publix?

[Florida]

I hear from a lot of people when I discuss downtown Tally is that with the condos being built, where is the "neighborhood" grocery store? If the City wants people to live, work and play downtown, then they need a grocery store within walking distance of their fabulous condo. Where would be the perfect location for the downtown Publix?

[missnic]

Can anyone think of some historic-looking, or under utilized buildings downtown, namely along Monroe street that we could revitalize? By this I mean, find new tenants for that could serve the public rather than be closed door operations like Law offices, associations, and the like. We need more deli, restaurant, small market, crafty type stores that will showcase their products in the windows. I'm talking from Governor's mansion to Southside bridge along Monroe street.

The only buildings I can think of are the old Architecture firm next to where the BP station used to be, the building next to the Tennyson, Tennyson's ground floor space, the area where Hair on Earth used to be, the area across the street where the Metro Deli is, and a few other buildings I can't name. The are near the capitol such as the old Southwood/SummerCamp/Digital Canopy Building now vacant. And the former Atlantis bar. What are some good fits for these buildings? You can start it off Poonther!

[poonther]

Supposedly the majority of the block from Bagel Bagel to Hair on Earth is going to be torn down or renovated soon. I just hope they bring Bagel Bagel back! I miss my morning tomato melts.

[Florida]

Although it falls short of everyones expectations, I'm not all that disappointed about it Poonther. Something about it is slightly charming although I do feel this is a waste of good high-density zoning.

Missnic, which corner of Call and Monroe are you talking, the Floridan Block or the small little building just down from Tennyson?

[missnic]

Although it falls short of everyones expectations, I'm not all that disappointed about it Poonther. Something about it is slightly charming although I do feel this is a waste of good high-density zoning.

Missnic, which corner of Call and Monroe are you talking, the Floridan Block or the small little building just down from Tennyson?

[FLJerseyBoy]

Question for the experts:

Is there a relationship between zoning and local taxation? Specifically, would it possible -- or even desirable, for that matter -- to encourage a real honest-to-God downtown by (a) establishing a cut-rate tax rate for retail and restaurant zoning in the downtown area, and concurrently (b) jacking up the tax rate for office space (especially ground-floor office space)? It just seems that office space -- for law offices, non-profit agencies and lobbying firms and so on -- will be needed and sought out even if not in a downtown location. (And the people in those sorts of professions will always need to spend time downtown, to the benefit of downtown commercial businesses.) But local retailers/restaurants of the downtown sort can thrive ONLY if they've actually got space, relatively inexpensive space at that, for at least their first few years of operation. Manipulating the zoning and tax rates like this seems like it would be a way of simultaneously encouraging the relocation of offices outside of downtown, and encouraging the establishment of new commerce downtown.

Are there legal barriers to this? Has it been tried elsewhere and found not to work? Obviously I'm completely talking through my hat here!

[Florida]

Question for the experts:

Is there a relationship between zoning and local taxation? Specifically, would it possible -- or even desirable, for that matter -- to encourage a real honest-to-God downtown by (a) establishing a cut-rate tax rate for retail and restaurant zoning in the downtown area, and concurrently (b) jacking up the tax rate for office space (especially ground-floor office space)? It just seems that office space -- for law offices, non-profit agencies and lobbying firms and so on -- will be needed and sought out even if not in a downtown location. (And the people in those sorts of professions will always need to spend time downtown, to the benefit of downtown commercial businesses.) But local retailers/restaurants of the downtown sort can thrive ONLY if they've actually got space, relatively inexpensive space at that, for at least their first few years of operation. Manipulating the zoning and tax rates like this seems like it would be a way of simultaneously encouraging the relocation of offices outside of downtown, and encouraging the establishment of new commerce downtown.

Are there legal barriers to this? Has it been tried elsewhere and found not to work? Obviously I'm completely talking through my hat here!

[FLJerseyBoy]

... This is how I say we do it.

When a developer or company submits to build one of our "desirable uses" downtown they qualify for a start-up grant which basically gives them money to make first or down-payment on a mortage, pay facility reconditioning costs, or market themselves. This would seem to encourage not only new companies to enter downtown to start a business, but be a catalysit for redevelopment of older / underutilized properties.

If we were to cut back on our rates for these "desirable uses" we would run into a number of problems. 1) We'd collect less money because we've lowered the rates. 2) We'd see an increase in the use of downtown, which is our goal, but this increase would be coupled with greater stress on our infrastructure (which I'm sure you're very familiar with) and less money to pay for upgrades, therefore causing commissioners to use funds generated elsewhere in the community for downtown purposes.

[Florida]

Thanks TJ. Are you saying this "start-up grant" system is already in place? And how could it alone help, when so much potentially prime retail space is occupied by entrenched NGOs, law firms, and so on? It seemed obvious that some balance needs to be struck, but right now all the cards seem stacked in favor of the existing downtown tenants.

What about the new condos? Much has been made of how their ground floors would be reserved for "retail" space, but I haven't seen diddly going on there. What do (or can) condo developers do to entice retailers to town?

Back in the bad old days when I was a smoker, if I ran out of cigarettes in the middle of the day I had two choices. I could walk to the old BP station, or I could walk to the Holiday Inn (pre-Doubletree). Because it was closer to City Hall, I tended to favor the latter; there was a little gift shop right inside the double doors on the Park Ave side which sold cigs (at a premium, unsurprisingly). I'd really hate to see the retail space on the condos' ground floors taken up by, say, laundromats and convenience stores. Harry's (in the League of Cities building) has been such a stupendous success that I hope it leads some visionary to try a bookstore, a Vinyl Fever branch, a mini-grocery or deli, maybe a mini-movie theater (Tallahassee Film Society???), whatever.

But again: no vacancies (aside from the condos' ground floors) generally equates to no prospects for downtown retail. If we can't provide some kind of (a) incentive for existing non-retail/-restaurant tenants to move or (b) disincentive for them to stay, it's all academic.

[seminole]

Washington Square, near NE corner of S. Calhoun and E. Jefferson. Still working through this one because the entire project could be approx. 300,000 sq ft, but approx. 150,000 sq ft - consisting of a 9 story building is currently submitted for review.

[Florida]

Washington Square is a small brick building currently occupied by a Law Firm. Are you saying they plan to re-do this site? The building seemd historic to me.... but perhaps I'm wrong.

[seminole]

Washington Square is a small brick building currently occupied by a Law Firm. Are you saying they plan to re-do this site? The building seemd historic to me.... but perhaps I'm wrong.

[Glenn]

Excerpt from today's Miami Herald.....

Changes for downtown Tallahassee included in state budget

Along with the projects for powerful Republicans, the $72 billion budget that lawmakers will approve today includes millions that will change the heart of Florida's capital city. The budget includes $7.9 million for a new building for the First District Court of Appeal and $250,000 to change the existing court facility to let the Florida State University law school move in to the existing building. On top of that there's $2.7 million for serious renovations to the existing Supreme Court building.

Source: MiamiHerald.com

[Florida]

I like the approach the state is taking with this year's budget to include reserves to improve the State facilities downtown. If this is a sign of things to come, I'm encouraged. Although, I wish state employees could have gotten raises.

[poonther]

I like the approach the state is taking with this year's budget to include reserves to improve the State facilities downtown. If this is a sign of things to come, I'm encouraged. Although, I wish state employees could have gotten raises.

[Florida]

Well yeah... I guess I was MISLED! Someone told me that they were leaving this location to move to the Old Federal Courthouse along Park Avenue. I really don't like the idea of this and I will be making a fuss about this. (Where's my bull horn).

[csmurphy8885]

Court houses are big and powerful buildings- a new one could be baller- did i understand that right?

[TrevorJamesFLA]

Does anyone know whats the deal with the Floridian Hotel being built on the corner of Tennessee and Monroe?? It says on the sign that it will be completed by 08 sometime. Is there any truth to this? They don't list a website or anything for more info

Trevor

[Florida]

Hey Trevor, This thread gives you the run-down on what's going on with the Floridan block. Basically, the most recent news was given to me today that the group responsible for building the hotel and office building has decided to move forward with the hotel portion, and not the office tower at this point in time, siting difficulty selling/leasing its condos. This difficulty is likely the result of competition from the Alliance property across Monroe Street, going in where "Hair on Earth" used to be and possibly the new Retail Federation Office building being propsed closer to the Florida capitol.

[TrevorJamesFLA]

Wow thanks Taurean thats exactly what I was looking for. Where exactly is the Alliance building going to be? Im not familar with Hair on Earth. Is the the same lot where the old BP was?

Trevor

[Florida]

Wow thanks Taurean thats exactly what I was looking for. Where exactly is the Alliance building going to be? Im not familar with Hair on Earth. Is the the same lot where the old BP was?

Trevor

[Florida]

Here are some pictures I took of downtown Mobile, AL this weekend. I've posted them in the Mobile, AL forum for them to see.

Here's a link... look at their street lights, signs, architecture, and plant life.

Downtown Mobile

[gibson]

Excellent pics TJ, How do I wish Tally's downtown, College Ave, and Gaines could one day be that cool.