3,000 New Condos on Delaware Waterfront

[city guy]

It is now getting a little crazy.

When I saw this today! 3,000 condos just on the waterfront I was shocked.

3,000 new Condos - (2) 40 Story Towers

[urbanophile]

It is now getting a little crazy.

When I saw this today!  3,000 condos just on the waterfront I was shocked.

3,000 new Condos - (2) 40 Story Towers

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I think you'll see more and more of this. Center City is getting ahrd to develop (with the NIMBYs, the zoning rules, the land costs, etc.) and the Delaware Riverfront is seen as attractive. So there's a push and pull effect. I think it'll be only a matter of years before all new codno development shifts to the Delware riverfront.

Given all this development, they really ought to get that oft-talked about but no action-taken Delware Ave. light rail up and running. I think that's far mroe important than that tram to Camden.

[SouthJersey7]

I think you'll see more and more of this.  Center City is getting ahrd to develop (with the NIMBYs, the zoning rules, the land costs, etc.) and the Delaware Riverfront is seen as attractive.  So there's a push and pull effect.  I think it'll be only a matter of years before all new codno development shifts to the Delware riverfront. 

Given all this development, they really ought to get that oft-talked about but no action-taken Delware Ave. light rail up and running.  I think that's far mroe important than that tram to Camden.

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Agreed. Far better to build something that will serve the residents for years to come than something that may draw tourism for a short time before the novelty wears off, and then you're stuck with it.

[PghUSA]

Those look very nice!

[city guy]

I think you'll see more and more of this.  Center City is getting ahrd to develop (with the NIMBYs, the zoning rules, the land costs, etc.) and the Delaware Riverfront is seen as attractive.  So there's a push and pull effect.  I think it'll be only a matter of years before all new codno development shifts to the Delware riverfront. 

Given all this development, they really ought to get that oft-talked about but no action-taken Delware Ave. light rail up and running.  I think that's far mroe important than that tram to Camden.

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Urbanophile...I never knew they talked about light rail on the Delaware. Good idea. I don't

know if anyone remembers, but when I was a kid, I remember riding a trolley up and down

in the middle of delaware avenue, where all the landscaping is. It was cool.

I also am not a big tram supporter. $25 million for an tram to Camden?

We do need to think about access to the waterfront, here is today's story that deals with

this in the Inquirer.

New Housing Zoning on Delaware

[urbanophile]

Urbanophile...I never knew they talked about light rail on the Delaware.  Good idea.  I don't

know if anyone remembers, but when I was a kid, I remember riding a trolley up and down

in the middle of delaware avenue, where all the landscaping is.  It was cool.

I think the Delaware Ave. light rail was something DRPA kicked around for quite some time (just lihe they're still kicking around extensions to PATCO and the Camden tram). I don't know how serious they are about actually doing it but you'll note that after they re-did Delaware Ave. a while back (and made it into "Columbus Boulevard") they retained the tracks and spruced them up - apparently a provision for future service.

I think the DRPA might just be waiting for more development to occur and then they'll do it. It'll certainly help get some of those drunk club-hoppers off the road!

If SEPTA can get its act together, maybe they can do it and run it as an extension of the rebuilt Girard Ave. trolley (which is now currently being held up because a few homeowners in Councilman Nutter's district won't give up their parking spaces and Nutter is fighting SEPTA). They could perhaps run it as part of a loop with the return side being down Washington Ave. and then up 11th to connect back up with Girard. However, with SEPTA, its unlikely. That's why my money is on DRPA taking this project on.

[urbanophile]

Those look very nice!

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Where are the pics?

[SouthJersey7]

I think the Delaware Ave. light rail was something DRPA kicked around for quite some time (just lihe they're still kicking around extensions to PATCO and the Camden tram).  I don't know how serious they are about actually doing it but you'll note that after they re-did Delaware Ave. a while back (and made it into "Columbus Boulevard") they retained the tracks and spruced them up - apparently a provision for future service. 

I think the DRPA might just be waiting for more development to occur and then they'll do it.  It'll certainly help get some of those drunk club-hoppers off the road!

If SEPTA can get its act together, maybe they can do it and run it as an extension of the rebuilt Girard Ave. trolley (which is now currently being held up because a few homeowners in Councilman Nutter's district won't give up their parking spaces and Nutter is fighting SEPTA).  They could perhaps run it as part of a loop with the return side being down Washington Ave. and then up 11th to connect back up with Girard.  However, with SEPTA, its unlikely.  That's why my money is on DRPA taking this project on.

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Here's the dirt on that project (Delaware LRT):

http://www.drpa.org/survey/Transit_Study_map.html

Alignment 1:

Alignment 2:

[PghUSA]

Where are the pics?

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I'm an urbanplanning junkie, so I put in a google to look at them, I now realize that they are to be the "same height" as their neighbors, so nope these aren't them, but it does give you a pretty good perception of what is in store.

The ambitious $600 million project laid out by George Vallone, of the Hoboken Brownstone Co., calls for two 40-story condo towers atop a five-story garage surrounded by new and rehabbed townhouses. The towers will be equal in height to the first of the five Waterfront Square high-rise condominiums going up across the street.

Philly.com doesn't like those on-line maps/graphics huh? Wow I'm so spoiled with the Post-Gazette co. over here. They don't print the announcement of something new without the ol' "artists rendition" of the planned developments, as well as maps and blueprints. I would like to see those plans, the co. website doesn't even make mention of it?!

http://www.hbrownstone.com/Nav.aspx/Page=/InMan/Default.aspx

[city guy]

I'm an urbanplanning junkie, so I put in a google to look at them, I now realize that they are to be the "same height" as their neighbors, so nope these aren't them, but it does give you a pretty good perception of what is in store. 

Philly.com doesn't like those on-line maps/graphics huh?  Wow I'm so spoiled with the Post-Gazette co. over here.  They don't print the announcement of something new without the ol' "artists rendition" of the planned developments, as well as maps and blueprints.  I would like to see those plans, the co. website doesn't even make mention of it?!

http://www.hbrownstone.com/Nav.aspx/Page=/InMan/Default.aspx

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I agree...how hard is it to put the picture in or artist rendering. Good find on the company.

Wish they had photos of their projects in NJ so we would have some idea of what we are getting.

[PghUSA]

huh, the link I pasted was to the news page but the hotlink doesn't take you directly there, its on the side panel though

[urbanophile]

Here's yet another new development proposed for the Delaware waterfront.

http://www.marinaviewtowerscondo.com/

Its to be 30 floors and located just north of the Ben Franklin Bridge.

It seems to me that all the worries about developing "Penn's Landing" may be all for not. All the city has to do is open it up for private development (instead of constantly trying to fit round pegs itno square holes by proposing entertainment centers, malls, and the like for that spot).

[city guy]

All this development on the river is incredible.

Yes, maybe we are lucky that so much down there

remains undeveloped for so long, now the market

will correct it and tons of towers will one day

line all Columbus Boulevard.

That would be cool.

[PghUSA]

That area is going to resemble Miami Beach pretty soon, or vice versa

[stinkweed]

That area is going to resemble Miami Beach pretty soon, or vice versa

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I don't mean to rain on anyones parade but I'm afraid PghUSA is correct. We're heading toward a waterfront that locks out long time residents in favor of upper middle class suburbaners. leap forward ten years when all these so called great developments are built and there is no longer a water front for you and me but on for the gated tower communities (water front sq is gated by the way). What do you suppose the street scape will look like? If you look at this and some of the other proposals along delaware ave they mostly have great big parking garages for the first ten floors. Sorry, but this is not my idea of good development. We're going backwards towards a more southern car oriented style city.

[SouthJersey7]

I see what you mean. I have never been to Miami beach but I can imagine what it's like with all the yuppie types in their little fortress-like condos. If I was in charge, I would outlaw private waterfronts, excessive parking garages and so-called "gated communities". Controlled access apartements are OK, but the buildings themselves need to be integrated into the street fabric, with retail, restaurants etc. on the ground floor. Otherwise you wind up with a situation where everyone who lives there, drives their Ford explorer to their job in King of Prussia or whatever, drives to the supermarket, then goes home without even encountering a single person on the street.

[urbanophile]

I see what you mean. I have never been to Miami beach but I can imagine what it's like with all the yuppie types in their little fortress-like condos. If I was in charge, I would outlaw private waterfronts, excessive parking garages and so-called "gated communities". Controlled access apartements are OK, but the buildings themselves need to be integrated into the street fabric, with retail, restaurants etc. on the ground floor. Otherwise you wind up with a situation where everyone who lives there, drives their Ford explorer to their job in King of Prussia or whatever, drives to the supermarket, then goes home without even encountering a single person on the street.

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Actually Miami Beach doesn't have any fortress-like condos. Much of the southern part of it is lined by a boardwalk and the beach itself is public. The condos aren't gated and there's also a pedestrian path between the condo buildings and their garden area (which lies between the path and the boardwalk).

As for the Phila waterfront, I think they are voting on an ordinance to keep the waterfront public. Its too late for Waterfront Square (which will be gated) but my understanding is that Waterfront Square is built on a pier that extends into the river. As such, it really won't be blocking the waterfront much. YOu jsut won't have acces to that pier.

[SouthJersey7]

Actually Miami Beach doesn't have any fortress-like condos.  Much of the southern part of it is lined by a boardwalk and the beach itself is public.  The condos aren't gated and there's also a pedestrian path between the condo buildings and their garden area (which lies between the path and the boardwalk).

As for the Phila waterfront, I think they are voting on an ordinance to keep the waterfront public.  Its too late for Waterfront Square (which will be gated) but my understanding is that Waterfront Square is built on a pier that extends into the river.  As such, it really won't be blocking the waterfront much.  YOu jsut won't have acces to that pier.

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That's good to hear. I have been to waterfront areas where each section of the waterfront is divided into it's own little private area, and trust me it's not pleasant.