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I find it amazing that there is only ONE outdoor restaurant on the water north of the hurricane barrier! The stretch of walkway in front of RISD kids would be perfect for an outdoor cafe (in fact, the RISD bookstore looks like at one point it actually had some sort of cafe in the building!)

We had a huge public investment to clean up the Woonasquatucket and Providence Rivers, and you can't even buy a hotdog at lunch time if you want to eat outside! Where are the corner flower vendors? Where are the interesting food vendors? Boston's Downtown Crossing has guys selling really neat kinds of food, not just from carts but also from walkup windows. Plus you can go to H&M, or Filene's, or Macy's OR to Filene's Basement or Marshalls or TJMax. How about a real bookstore? Symposium books is never open, and from the window display, it looks like the stock is remaindered textbooks. Nothing against technical books, but how about something unique for Providence? Washington DC has a bookstore called Politics and Prose that really fills a niche and reflects the obsessions of that city. Plus they really schedule readings and book clubs. What's the equivalent for Providence?

Why can't we put an IKEA (with connections to RISD!!) or a Target in the old power plant? This Sunday I walked all around the area between the old power plant and Weybosset, and it was totally dead! I was one human being in a sea of asphalt parking lots, and STILL people in this town complain about parking!

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I find it amazing that there is only ONE outdoor restaurant on the water north of the hurricane barrier! The stretch of walkway in front of RISD kids would be perfect for an outdoor cafe (in fact, the RISD bookstore looks like at one point it actually had some sort of cafe in the building!)

We had a huge public investment to clean up the Woonasquatucket and Providence Rivers, and you can't even buy a hotdog at lunch time if you want to eat outside!  Where are the corner flower vendors?  Where are the interesting food vendors? Boston's Downtown Crossing has guys selling really neat kinds of food, not just from carts but also from walkup windows.  Plus you can go to H&M, or Filene's, or Macy's OR to Filene's Basement or Marshalls or TJMax.  How about a real bookstore? Symposium books is never open, and from the window display, it looks like the stock is remaindered textbooks.  Nothing against technical books, but how about something unique for Providence?  Washington DC has a bookstore called Politics and Prose that really fills a niche and reflects the obsessions of that city.  Plus they really schedule readings and book clubs.  What's the equivalent for Providence?

Why can't we put an IKEA (with connections to RISD!!) or a Target in the old power plant?  This Sunday I walked all around the area between the old power plant and Weybosset, and it was totally dead!  I was one human being in a sea of asphalt parking lots, and STILL people in this town complain about parking!

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You're going to fit right in here citygirl. ;)

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I find it amazing that there is only ONE outdoor restaurant on the water north of the hurricane barrier! The stretch of walkway in front of RISD kids would be perfect for an outdoor cafe (in fact, the RISD bookstore looks like at one point it actually had some sort of cafe in the building!)

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Even though I just posted about there seemingly being more people around Thayer/Westminster, I agree with what you are saying about the RISD area. I had the same reaction when I moved down from Boston - all this beauty but where is everyone!! I kept telling myself not to compare it to Boston, it is a much smaller city, but still... I think until all of the new condo's and apartment buildings are built and full of people there will not be enough traffic downcity to support the types of stores you mentioned. Give a couple more years and you could see big changes. For now it is like someone built a gorgeous stage but forgot to hire the actors for the play.

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Downcity is sat+sun 9am-3pm and Eddy's Dinner has breakfast during the weekday.

Citygirl: Symposium books seems to be open everytime I pass? Even on sunday which is rare for downcity retail. With that said I always find people in Symposium books even when the streets are bare.

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Why can't we put an IKEA (with connections to RISD!!) or a Target in the old power plant? 

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IKEA in pvd <drool>

I'm about 1/2 way through assembling a full kitchen worth of IKEA cabinets. Demolition starts Saturday.

I would actually like some mass market style retail in the city proper if it was done correctly and not in big boxes. a target type store downtown would be great. I wonder if they have done any scaled down urban locations? They would be a good fit as far as discount retailers are concered. Their wares are hip enough to appeal to the type of people that will be living downtown, plus it would be great to be able to purchase basic household goods without leaving.

Liam

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I think until all of the new condo's and apartment buildings are built and full of people there will not be enough traffic downcity to support the types of stores you mentioned. Give a couple more years and you could see big changes. For now it is like someone built a gorgeous stage but forgot to hire the actors for the play.

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Good analogy... I agree with you about all the residential construction needing to be done first. I think times are going to be tough for a bit for the earlier pioneers like the apparently closed Urban Kitchen (which is of little import to me, since, as a lunch place, it's been closed every time I've ever been by anyway...).

That "stage" you refer to was built for people shopping and working in Pvd. With the decline in both (downcity was never much of a residential area), it will have to wait for its post-modern reinvention as a residential area to get new actors.

- Garris

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I would actually like some mass market style retail in the city proper if it was done correctly and not in big boxes. a target type store downtown would be great. I wonder if they have done any scaled down urban locations? They would be a good fit as far as discount retailers are concered. Their wares are hip enough to appeal to the type of people that will be living downtown, plus it would be great to be able to purchase basic household goods without leaving.

Liam

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That would be great right downcity, but those stores require so much traffic to stay in business that unless the foot traffic is upped a lot (which might happen once 110, etc. come to be), you'd have to build some massive garage to have people drive in and park. It would be awesome to have a store like Target built up to the street with a sidewalk in front of it though. I think a lot of people wouldn't mind the huge corporate discount chains if their physical form wasn't the traditional big box with massive parking lot.

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a target type store downtown would be great. I wonder if they have done any scaled down urban locations? Liam

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I believe they have done several. Minneapolis's downtown "Nicolette Ave" shopping district (their Fifth Ave) has an urban Target, and I think one opened in the downtown urban area of White Plains, NY as well. Of course, both of those areas have large urban parking garages clearly marked as being for downtown shopping parking.

- Garris

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I believe they have done several.  Minneapolis's downtown "Nicolette Ave" shopping district (their Fifth Ave) has an urban Target, and I think one opened in the downtown urban area of White Plains, NY as well.  Of course, both of those areas have large urban parking garages clearly marked as being for downtown shopping parking.

- Garris

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Of course, in NYC, the big box stores have gone vertical because they really really want to get the market there. I've seen people toting IKEA boxes on the subway, having brought them all the way from the IKEA store in Elizabeth NJ!!!

Remember when stores used to deliver? What a concept!

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Anyone know the status of a movie theatre downtown. I know its close to the mall but there are some theatres I've been to in some European cities (similar in size to PVD) that offer a few screens and have a little bit more of a boutique feel to them. Opperating costs and overhead would be smaller due to the smaller size and the proprieter might not get as scared about the parking situation. Especially with all the great restaurants downcity this could easily redefine the whole "dinner and a movie" scene. I mean, who likes going out to a great restaurant only to wander through a semi abandoned mall to the googleplex upstairs. Imagine being able to get a great meal and then see a movie by walking a block or so. I know there is Avon and CC but I think mainstream movies should be played in this case to appeal to a wider market. It even seems like there's a good building for it too (not that I know anything about what it's scheduled for) but the one on Westminster just opposite Dress Barn - It even has an awning that could quickly become a marquee...

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IKEA in pvd <drool>

I'm about 1/2 way through assembling a full kitchen worth of IKEA cabinets. Demolition starts Saturday.

I would actually like some mass market style retail in the city proper if it was done correctly and not in big boxes. a target type store downtown would be great. I wonder if they have done any scaled down urban locations? They would be a good fit as far as discount retailers are concered. Their wares are hip enough to appeal to the type of people that will be living downtown, plus it would be great to be able to purchase basic household goods without leaving.

Liam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Target has an urban store in downtown Stamford, CT with a garage and overhead residential/hotel.

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Anyone know the status of a movie theatre downtown.

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Duany suggested 3 sites for a Downcity movie theatre during his design charrette. The location you mentioned, one on Matthewson next to the Hotel Providence, and one on Matthewson between Washington and Fountain (the ProJo parking lot). Those were all proposals from Duany's charrette, and nothing has been actually proposed for any of those locations (that I know of). There was talk last year that someone was actually interested in locating a movie theatre Downcity.

Buff Chase is apparently considering putting a movie theatre into the Grant's Block building.

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Also, movie theaters are one of those things that require a huge population base to be economically viable. A large corporate mega-plex won't happen anytime soon because the market is saturated by the Mall's theater.

Even the market for independent screens might be mostly saturated. Don't forget about the Cable Car and the Avon. Now, I know what someone is about to say: "those aren't downtown!!". But that's really quite arbitary. Those theaters are both within a 15 minute walk and 3 minute drive from the center of downcity. They are clearly part of the downcity market, and would compete with any indy screen that moves in.

That being said, the Avon and Cable car were always quite full when I went. So maybe there is a market left for another small indy screen.

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Point well taken. Remember that the Castle closed and I've heard that the Avon and the Cable Car aren't really profitable. Hopefully the Columbus is doing ok.

That they overbuilt cineplex theaters in the suburbs is pretty clear when you go to a 9:30 movie at the Showcase. Often you're the only one there.

Also, movie theaters are one of those things that require a huge population base to be economically viable. A large corporate mega-plex won't happen anytime soon because the market is saturated by the Mall's theater.

Even the market for independent screens might be mostly saturated. Don't forget about the Cable Car and the Avon. Now, I know what someone is about to say: "those aren't downtown!!". But that's really quite arbitary. Those theaters are both within a 15 minute walk and 3 minute drive from the center of downcity. They are clearly part of the downcity market, and would compete with any indy screen that moves in.

That being said, the Avon and Cable car were always quite full when I went. So maybe there is a market left for another small indy screen.

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Remember that the Castle closed

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I heard the Castle is re-opening with new owners. Part of their focus will be on Latin American films to cater to the Hispanic community in the area, which I think is a very good idea.

My fear with a new indy theatre Downcity is that something else will have to give, the Avon, the Cable Car, or the Columbus. :(

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As part of the plan/agreement to build Providence Place Mall, "Buddy' Cianci got Commonwealth Development to agree to build a theater complex downcity at the corners of Matthewson & Washington Sts. which is an empty parking lot for journal employees. The Providence Journal Bullentin owns this site and agreed to sell it just for this purpose. However, when Paul Newman's Sundance Co plans to locate here didn't go through the journal pulled out, vowing not to sell their land again. Then http://www.starwass.com ( Starwood/Wasserman) had plans to build an entertainment complex which included an arts type movie cinema http://www.angelikafilmcenter.com/newyork where the Jefferson at Providence Place Apts are now located. This was back in the late 90's.

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Besides the Cablecar, Castle and Avon Cinema's, there use to also be one way down both Elmwood & Broad Sts. which I use to go to in the early 80's. Neighborhood cinema's just died out here in the city.

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I remember when PPAC was still a movie theater (the Ocean State) in the late 70s. I remember watching the remake of King Kong there.

My mom, who's 65, remembers seeing movies in such long gone downtown places as the Albee, the Metropolitan as well as at Loew's (now PPAC) and the Majestic (Trinity) and the Strand (now Club Diesel or something.) She would also see movies at the Avon on weekends that would begin with a newsreel and then some cartoons like Heckle and Jeckle.

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Can the mall's megaplex be made smaller.. and maybe just make that space into something else?? In result, the mall wouldnt have 5 people in each movie, but it'd be more crowded.... and hopefully after a couple of years, it could help support a downcity theater.

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The keys to a vibrant city are density, liberty, and variety. Convinient parking is nice but its more of an addiction than a necessity. Thayer and Newbery Streets both have no parking lots. Just street parking. New york is pedestrian or transit. The Cornish garage will be for apt tenants and event people. The hit and run folks like the local eat/drink crowd wont use it.

Westminster will do better once the buildings and lots are filled in. The Paolino lot at Empire St needs a tower. My architect had a client who commisioned him to draw 14 story twin residential towers sitting on a 2 story commercial building for that site. The 3rd story roof deck was a garden for the tower residents. Beautifull. That sort of thing, in concert with all the rest going on, would bring home the bacon to DownCity and solve the density problem.

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