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Mass Transit around Greater Birmingham


Blazer85

Should Birmingham bring back their streetcars?  

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  1. 1. Should Birmingham bring back their streetcars?

    • Yes
      37
    • No
      2
    • Undecided
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Birmingham and Jefferson County should really look at consolidation of governments and do away with all the small municipalities. I know the "over the mountain" communities would never agree, but this would be such a positive step and help issues like the transit issue.

There's one problem, Central Alabama is the NIMBY capital of the world. They don't believe in cooperation, but instead the theory of divide and conquer. See my post above.

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There's one problem, Central Alabama is the NIMBY capital of the world. They don't believe in cooperation, but instead the theory of divide and conquer. See my post above.

I agree, BUT, maybe with good leadership and slow moves, it could happen. You're not just going to put out a proposal to annex/consolidate Jefferson County and have it approved by those wealthier suburbs. However, a gradual move towards those less wealthy suburbs could really have a successful appeal. I say, first off, Birmingham should go after more of the unincorporated land in northern and western sections of Jefferson County. Then, Birmingham should go after places like Forestdale, Adamsville, Graysville, Irondale, Center Point, Fultondale, Tarrant, Mulga, etc. It could work... just will be a slow process. Have to win over the people now. Birmingham leadership has dropped the ball and lost a LOT of trust.

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Have to win over the people now. Birmingham leadership has dropped the ball and lost a LOT of trust.

Yea, Birmingham (and the Jefferson County Commission for that matter) should get newly elected officials that will leave Birmingham in much better shape than they found it instead of making excuses for why things are going wrong. Without that, there is no way that any suburb, wealthy or poor, is going to let Birmingham and it's circus act take over.

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Ok. How about this? Try and contact those leaders that you think are so incompetent and give them a few of your ideas. It makes no sense to go about criticizing people and not at least trying to give some help first. Maybe some of the knowledge you think you might have is something that can make a difference. If that doesn't work, then you have grounds to make the statements that you make. If you've done this already, then good.

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Ok. How about this? Try and contact those leaders that you think are so incompetent and give them a few of your ideas. It makes no sense to go about criticizing people and not at least trying to give some help first. Maybe some of the knowledge you think you might have is something that can make a difference. If that doesn't work, then you have grounds to make the statements that you make. If you've done this already, then good.

I've already done that twice. I have come to the conclusion that most politcians from around here are selfish idiots that doesn't care about regional progress.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Without realizing this topic was here, I drew up a train-based system map... subway/rail-type transit... if it fits with discussion, ok, if not... let me know.

Basically, this is a 'what I'd like to see' map. The lines can be extended, but its all fictionalized. The only thing that will exist is the Northern Beltline. Aesthetically, I'd like to see something with no overhead wires... it'd also be better/safer due to the number of trees we have around. I have a ton of ideas for a mass transit system, but that's all they are... ideas. Mainly garnered from observations I have made as I travel the city and the few times I'm in other cities, seeing what works, and what could be done to improve what exists, or how it could have been done better.

transit.jpg

I generalized on locations and such, added in the northern beltline to the best of my ability, and not much else.

The white center dots are standard stations.

The black center dots are transfer stations.

Thoughts?

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Without realizing this topic was here, I drew up a train-based system map... subway/rail-type transit... if it fits with discussion, ok, if not... let me know.

Basically, this is a 'what I'd like to see' map. The lines can be extended, but its all fictionalized. The only thing that will exist is the Northern Beltline. Aesthetically, I'd like to see something with no overhead wires... it'd also be better/safer due to the number of trees we have around. I have a ton of ideas for a mass transit system, but that's all they are... ideas. Mainly garnered from observations I have made as I travel the city and the few times I'm in other cities, seeing what works, and what could be done to improve what exists, or how it could have been done better.

transit.jpg

I generalized on locations and such, added in the northern beltline to the best of my ability, and not much else.

The white center dots are standard stations.

The black center dots are transfer stations.

Thoughts?

2 thumbs up. It looks very similar to a map I drew by hand a couple of years back. I will scan it and put it up if I can get my scan working ever again.

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I like it... one thing though. I think the red north-south line shouldnt extend so far south... just could encourage more southward migration of the population. Outside of that, I like it alot. Takes people right by the Galleria, the Airport, Visionland, provides an alternate route for 280-folks. Dont forget I-22 either. Very nice.

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I like it... one thing though. I think the red north-south line shouldnt extend so far south... just could encourage more southward migration of the population. Outside of that, I like it alot. Takes people right by the Galleria, the Airport, Visionland, provides an alternate route for 280-folks. Dont forget I-22 either. Very nice.

Yeah, presently I think the red is needed that far... Alabaster is where a TON of traffic enters/exits I-65 and/or Hwy 31... (I've seen it first hand... when you have to leave at 6 to make it to work at 8.. that's an issue.. heh.)

I've seen where I-22 is to intersect with 65 north of the beltline, but I would rather have it inside the loop... The location looks to be inside the loop anyway, but maps I've seen have it north. Which is all sorts of craziness...

My Blue Line (NW/SE line) is right there at 78... and if that doesn't hit the road right, the northern Red Line stops are in the I-22 area... or at least one of many areas I've heard. :\

I had a drawn map of a more complicated system, but the Red Line is about the same... I think it's the only thing that's not changed. I could make from Pelham south dashed, and extend out the others to possible other locales (and possibly locate more definate info on I-22), but what's there, in my opinion, would help with current issues. I could make variations, like what should be constructed first, feasible solutions first, etc... but I decided on a map of what I feel needs to exist to decrease vehicular traffic. :)

While widening 65 from Valleydale north to 459 is good... I have a word for ALDOT: Bottleneck.

Traffic backs up at 119 on 65S for one reason: 65 goes from 3 lanes to 2. Yes, a number of people get off, but a backup starts when people either can't get over before the exit, thus going straight and merging on the south end of the intersection, causing backups, or they get over late, causing backups. Bottleneck.

And for the record, with this map, I would not be able to take advantage of this system to travel to work.

Looking at the map... heh.. It looks like the Yellow Line stop downtown could be at the RRP. heh.

Oddly enough, I like the Triangle.

I'll try to see what I can find on definate 65 connectors for I-22... like WHERE. :)

One of my inspiration cities is Washington, DC, which their Metro doesn't go outside the Beltway. Of course, it also covers a smaller landmass area than Birmingham-metro... heh.

EDIT!

Here's the update. (I exceeded Smiley limit earlier.. so i'm having to retype my edit! ugh!)

I added signage, made some lines dashed, as they could be considered unneccesary, etc, so I just dashed them to illustrate the two deals... lines w/in the beltway (like D.C.), and lines I'd like to see exist or whatever. :)

I also located I-22 on my map of the Northern Beltline from the MPO.. duh. I added it.

transit2.jpg

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If we spent the amount of money on mass transit that we dump into the expansion of existing roads...we would end our traffic issues...spur new infill development along the rail lines...improve air quality..reduce our need for oil from the middle east, slow sprawl, and leave future generations (including the children of toady) with a fighting chance. The key is combining commuter rail...with light rail/trolley connectors.

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If we spent the amount of money on mass transit that we dump into the expansion of existing roads...we would end our traffic issues...spur new infill development along the rail lines...improve air quality..reduce our need for oil from the middle east, slow sprawl, and leave future generations (including the children of toady) with a fighting chance. The key is combining commuter rail...with light rail/trolley connectors.

Transit SYSTEM. Yup. :):thumbsup:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I really like that map. I wish that the County and the City could actually work together. Birmingham has soooo much potential that the competition between the county and city is keeping at bay because they can't agree on ANYTHING. I don't live in Birmingham, but I plan to live there once I'm out of college. I would like to see mass transit expand throughout the metro area. I can see the metro population hitting upwards of 3,000,000 within 15 years, we all know it's possible and it probably will happen. Alabam can't keep ignoring our problems of today. We have to start thinking of tomorrow. I see the Huntsville-Decatur area right now just realizing that they MUST prepare for tomorrow. Because of BRAC we have to put into use things that previously were thought of as not being needed or over the top. Hville/Madco is finally understanding that they can go the growth alone, and that they won't be the only area affected. Bham/Jeffco has to realize the same thing and start working together or the area is never going to get where it can go.

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I really like that map. I wish that the County and the City could actually work together. Birmingham has soooo much potential that the competition between the county and city is keeping at bay because they can't agree on ANYTHING. I don't live in Birmingham, but I plan to live there once I'm out of college. I would like to see mass transit expand throughout the metro area. I can see the metro population hitting upwards of 3,000,000 within 15 years, we all know it's possible and it probably will happen. Alabam can't keep ignoring our problems of today. We have to start thinking of tomorrow. I see the Huntsville-Decatur area right now just realizing that they MUST prepare for tomorrow. Because of BRAC we have to put into use things that previously were thought of as not being needed or over the top. Hville/Madco is finally understanding that they can go the growth alone, and that they won't be the only area affected. Bham/Jeffco has to realize the same thing and start working together or the area is never going to get where it can go.

That is true. That is why I love the Huntsville-Decatur area because they are so progressive and thinking at the future.

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That is true. That is why I love the Huntsville-Decatur area because they are so progressive and thinking at the future.

Yea, this is the first time I've ever truely seen the governments of Hville/MadCo and Dctur/MorgCo actually working together to try and get something done instead of trying to get it to go one way or another.

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I can see the metro population hitting upwards of 3,000,000 within 15 years, we all know it's possible and it probably will happen.

That would be great but I honestly cannot see Bham metro reaching 1.5 million by 2020. At the rate the area has been growing for the last 20 years we might be looking more like 1.25 million.

Bham/Jeffco has to realize the same thing and start working together or the area is never going to get where it can go.

This is very true but there has got to be a total overhaul of city hall. We need people city and county government that truly care about the growth and of the this city and the surrounding areas.

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That would be great but I honestly cannot see Bham metro reaching 1.5 million by 2020. At the rate the area has been growing for the last 20 years we might be looking more like 1.25 million.

This is very true but there has got to be a total overhaul of city hall. We need people city and county government that truly care about the growth and of the this city and the surrounding areas.

Well, Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman has already reached 1,170,000.

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That would be great but I honestly cannot see Bham metro reaching 1.5 million by 2020. At the rate the area has been growing for the last 20 years we might be looking more like 1.25 million.

This is very true but there has got to be a total overhaul of city hall. We need people city and county government that truly care about the growth and of the this city and the surrounding areas.

Actually, from what I'm hearing Rolltider, that is exactly what the population of Greater Birmingham is going projected to be in 2020, 1.5 million. A matter of fact from what I'm hearing that number maybe reached even before 2020 at the rate the region is starting to grow.

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Actually, from what I'm hearing Rolltider, that is exactly what the population of Greater Birmingham is going projected to be in 2020, 1.5 million. A matter of fact from what I'm hearing that number maybe reached even before 2020 at the rate the region is starting to grow.

I think the latter of your paragraph is correct. Cause, all of the people that go around projecting these populations don't factor in new things that are going on around the state. But, they're not completely to blame. They vastly underestimate Alabama, we all know it's true.

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Actually, from what I'm hearing Rolltider, that is exactly what the population of Greater Birmingham is going projected to be in 2020, 1.5 million. A matter of fact from what I'm hearing that number maybe reached even before 2020 at the rate the region is starting to grow.

Does that projection for the 7 county SMSA or the CMSA which includes Cullman County? My guestimate was for only the 7 county metro.

I hope you guys are correct and I certainly agree that the growth rate seems to be accelerating. If that continues I think the 7 county metro will reach 1.5 million by 2020.

I also strongly believe that Jefferson County and the City of Birmingham has been significantly undercounted, maybe as much as 5 to 10%, in the last two census.

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