Wilmore, Charlotte

[lewy2000]

Seriously, I have a feeling all the Wilmore ranches within stones throw of 77 will be extremely affordable for years to come.

Make an offer!

[cltheel.sdl]

I don't feel sorry for the people moving out - look at the prices they're selling their houses for.

[monsoon]

I don't feel sorry for the people moving out - look at the prices they're selling their houses for.

Indeed, they are the ones making out like bandits. The "bad element" will be living large elsewhere in CLT.

The ones purchasing them..... well I am not so sure. If I was going to spend 1/2 million on a house I don't think I would want to live in a WWII bungalow stuck between I-77 and S. Tryon that still needed rennovations. When the state finally gets around to expanding I-77 to 12 lanes, it is going to have a negative affect on Wilmore.

1/2 million will still buy a pretty nice condo with as much space as a Wilmore condo right in downtown Charlotte and will most likely hold its value better.

[voyager12]

The closeness of major highways may be Wilmore's Achilles Heel. The interior streets like Kingston and Park are turning over rapidly and regenerating. Every other house seems to be for sale. There are several renovations along West as well. But that is such a noisy stretch of road. It does not have the landscaping setbacks of East.

[monsoon]

Yep, the decision decades ago to run I-77 right through the middle of that neighborhood is what sundered it. People moved out in droves because they didn't like the noise, pollution, trash and crime a highway like that causes, and Wilmore fell into decay. I think people falling for the real estate frenzy forget this is a major uncorrectable defect for the area that will continue to get worse. I-77 is a major route on the east coast now that gives people in the Ohio Valley, the Detroit Metro, and Western Penn, direct access to Florida via I-26 and I-95 and is going to have to be expanded to handle this load.

The lucky ones in this are the ones selling out now.

[atlrvr]

But there are plenty of neighborhoods in Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson that are equally as close to the interstate.....are you saying that these people are on the brink of moving out as they get overrun with noise, trash, and pollution.....maybe this is where the "element" will head.

[monsoon]

But there are plenty of neighborhoods in Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson that are equally as close to the interstate.....are you saying that these people are on the brink of moving out as they get overrun with noise, trash, and pollution.....maybe this is where the "element" will head.

There are one or two developments in Huntersville that are close to the freeway, but the design there is such that the highway can be expanded without affecting them much. And with the exception of a few people who put up lake front houses where the I-77 crosses the lake none of these are developments where the houses are are in the 1/2 million dollar range. Not even close. We are talking about starter homes here.

My mom remembers Wilmore prior to the freeway being built as she had a good friend that lived there in the 50s & early 60s. She said it looks nothing like it does now and that people did move out to get away from the highway. (which then was only 4 lanes)

[karmst]

I know this is slightly off the topic r/e Wilmore, but I don't see the up-tick in buyers along the northern fringes of South End...and this could affect the appreciation of Wilmore.

The last time I looked, there were NINE condos for sale in Factory South and even more in the Arlington, and I just don't see where the people will come from to buy these more expesively priced condos/homes on South Boulevard. I do see people paying these prices for Uptown, but even due to the close proximity to the light rail (and also the 'C'), people might not be prepared to pay the prices.

I do not see the interest in these places, and am concerned as this might point to a stagnant period when all the new construction is finished.

-k

[voyager12]

Factory South and The Arlington are pretty stagnant. There is so much going up, eventually there could be a glut of condos. From what I hear Factory South is dead because The Arlington killed their view. The Arlington (Pink Building) is half empty because a lot of people think its ugly. I think its cool and adds diversity to the gray corporate skyline. Although the interior is mediocre. I have been in Holiday Inns that are nicer. Its all about the view there. I digress...again I don't think we are at saturation point yet. The Tremont has practically sold out and other quality projects are going strong. Charlotte is not immune to an eventual slowdown though.

[AuLukey]

Factory South and The Arlington are pretty stagnant. There is so much going up, eventually there could be a glut of condos. From what I hear Factory South is dead because The Arlington killed their view.

That is what will happen all over uptown though. One building will be built and will kill another by destroying what view it had. As uptown stretches up and out, this will be a trend and people will probably stop looking for rooms with a view and just look for rooms in and/or around uptown like in most major cities.

I also agree about the Arlington, I wish we had more color in our skyline.

[karmst]

Thanks for the replies! Personally, I don't care much for a view, it's more important to have better / higher quality interiors for me. Plus, if you live in South End you're only minutes from Light Rail, and if you look right/left from the train tracks you can see the uptown skyline anyhow.

I guess in the next 5-10 years, uptown will be less significant and people will want to live where they get more quality for their money.

Oh, and I sent an email to the 'C' people, asking what retail was going to be located there. Hopefully they will respond to me with positive information.

-k

[sleightofhand]

I can't believe the prices people are getting in Wilmore. A house one block from me recently sold for $439,000!

Makes me scratch my head trying to figure out how I got my 3 bedroom condo right by the light rail for $150,000.

Maybe it's time for me to sell.

[monsoon]

We are seeing the same effect in real estate today that we saw in irrational buys of dot.com stock 5 years ago.

[dubone]

It isn't really irrational. Wilmore used to sell at a discount because of its crime rate. The area is much safer now, so the discount has eroded. Also, the housing stock is from an era of design that many people appreciate more, so now that those houses are being renovated and updated, the houses are now selling at a premium, in keeping with other neighborhoods from that era. Lastly, these houses are blocks away from a half-billion dollar rapid transit system. It is a national reality that land values go up significantly with proximity to rapid transit stations.

There is inherent value in that neighborhood, based on the criteria that create real estate valuations. Business valuations are based on profits and revenues, primarily their net present values, with short term fluctuations based on supply and demand of the stock. The dot com businesses had excessive demand, which plummetted when the revenues did not materialize.

[lewy2000]

What I find curious about the house that sold for $439,000 is that it's not even near the light rail. It's one block west of Mint Street... not exactly a short walk to the rail station.

I toured the house before it sold (before I bought my house on Kingston) and was blown away by the quality of the interior renovation. It's a one-of-a-kind with a great view of Uptown, which I guess accounts for the price.

I'm interested to see if the house at Kingston and Tryon gets $579,000 (only one block from the rail).

[Charlotte_native]

The prices in Wilmore don't follow other trends like other neighborhoods in Charlotte. Wilmore is only separated from Dilworth by two blocks of South Blvd / SouthEnd and basically looks the same though not as "improved" to date. Its location is every bit as good as Dilworth when considering downtown so prices, from my view, are only coming in-line with Dilworth and other close-in neighborhoods. If it were exceeding them, and their long established prices, I might think it was unsustainable increases, but it seems to be based on true investment (these homes are every bit as well built and well renovated as any other older neighborhood).

Any of the homes I have seen that have prices that are "through the roof" also have finishes and work that is through the roof. These homes are also being bought by true homeowners -- the high priced ones -- so this is not investor buying.

[Charlotte_native]

I know this is slightly off the topic r/e Wilmore, but I don't see the up-tick in buyers along the northern fringes of South End...and this could affect the appreciation of Wilmore.

The last time I looked, there were NINE condos for sale in Factory South and even more in the Arlington, and I just don't see where the people will come from to buy these more expesively priced condos/homes on South Boulevard. I do see people paying these prices for Uptown, but even due to the close proximity to the light rail (and also the 'C'), people might not be prepared to pay the prices.

I do not see the interest in these places, and am concerned as this might point to a stagnant period when all the new construction is finished.

-k

Arlington is considered a hard sell by most because of its history and the fact that many think there is something wrong there though there isn't. Its "buzz" and its initial takeoff were shaken off by the bad press, arrogant developer, slowdowns in construction due to many issues, and the final surprise of a color not originally shown to buyers so many pulled out. Lesson here for current developers trying to fit square pegs into round holes?

Factory South has always sold well -- some units don't, however, because they have pretty tough floorplans. The ones with good flow and floorplans sell just fine. I think they also have been hurt by having no personal outdoor space which is now common for most condos in central Charlotte.

[ElricSeven]

The prices in Wilmore don't follow other trends like other neighborhoods in Charlotte. Wilmore is only separated from Dilworth by two blocks of South Blvd / SouthEnd and basically looks the same though not as "improved" to date. Its location is every bit as good as Dilworth when considering downtown so prices, from my view, are only coming in-line with Dilworth and other close-in neighborhoods. If it were exceeding them, and their long established prices, I might think it was unsustainable increases, but it seems to be based on true investment (these homes are every bit as well built and well renovated as any other older neighborhood).

Any of the homes I have seen that have prices that are "through the roof" also have finishes and work that is through the roof. These homes are also being bought by true homeowners -- the high priced ones -- so this is not investor buying.

I wouldn't buy there as an investment per se, but if you love the neighborhood and want to live there, it seems like a great somehwat discounted option to Dilworth. Violent crime over there is still very frequent though, and it only has to happen to you once to change (or end) your life. Personally, I'd want a much steeper discount to account for those risks than what prevails now. A lot of the people living there are police officers who are better trained to handle those situations. Not everyone has that luxury.

[monsoon]

The prices in Wilmore don't follow other trends like other neighborhoods in Charlotte. Wilmore is only separated from Dilworth by two blocks of South Blvd / SouthEnd and basically looks the same though not as "improved" to date. Its location is every bit as good as Dilworth when considering downtown so prices, from my view, are only coming in-line with Dilworth and other close-in neighborhoods. If it were exceeding them, and their long established prices, I might think it was unsustainable increases, but it seems to be based on true investment (these homes are every bit as well built and well renovated as any other older neighborhood).

Any of the homes I have seen that have prices that are "through the roof" also have finishes and work that is through the roof. These homes are also being bought by true homeowners -- the high priced ones -- so this is not investor buying.

Yet Wilmore languished for 3 decades while Dilworth was gentrifed starting in the late 70s despite those two blocks. Those two blocks marked a dramatic difference between the two places. The reason for this of course is that is is not Dilworth and in Charlotte the name of the neighborhood has a lot to do with prices. Wilmore's biggest problem is not the land between S Tryon and Dilworth, but the area between Cliffwood place/Mt St. and I-77 and west of I-77. I do not believe that area will ever gentrify because of the apartments, some of the new houses that were put up there, and of course I-77 which will be expanded in the future, it also backup up to some fairly high crime places. Because of that the entire neighborhood gets a bad rep. Also Dilworth is not located on a Freeway exit (West Blvd & I-77) which brings a great deal of negatives to that area. As E7 said, crime is a pretty serious problem which is something that you put up with in a neighborhood of $100K homes, but not one of $500K ones.

I suspect that what will happen in the future is that someone is going to invent a trendy name for the part of Wilmore that is the closest to Dilworth maybe something like "DilEnd" and those residents who paid $500K for their bungalows will not have to worry about being associated with the other half of the neighborhood.

[Charlotte_native]

I would have to say most of that is simply not true. I have 10 different groups of friends that live in 10 different homes in Wilmore. NONE have experienced any crime. None. The crime rates you guys are talking about are rumors not really based on fact. There are homeless in the area and there are drug dealers still there, but violent crime -- I don't know of more than one or two cases in the last year and that is a lower rate than Dilworth and it was crime between criminals -- not new residents. I've watched homes burn and rapes reported in my lovely Dilworth -- much worse stuff than minor property crime in Wilmore.

As for those two blocks -- quite true about their past creating a barrier, but that barrier is now SouthEnd and the Trolley and retail, and design centers and the rest of the development in the area. Those factors have made what was once a bad run-down two blocks into a great area.

Wilmore will catch up to Dilworth and is already quite close. No goofy name will be assigned because the neighborhood association is QUITE happy with their name and its history. No one needs to rebrand an area that is doing just fine.

Where were new houses put up in Wilmore? I only know of 5 scattered throughout the neighborhood and the only bad apartments are those on West Blvd that are possibly on the market now. The bad properties in this area are changing hands quite quickly and the Mint Street and Tryon Street corridors that shoot through the neighborhood have slated plans for mixed use and new condos -- quite an investment and based on sales up and down SouthEnd, it will be well received.

The bad reputation referred above for the neighborhood really has eroded away over the past couple of years and is only held by those of us that have been here to see how bad it was. Most that live in Wilmore are not from Charlotte and don't have the predisposition to think of Wilmore as anything less than another neighborhood near downtown with cool houses.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Wilmore is nowhere near Dilworth. I remember driving through Wilmore on the main road a month ago on route to one of the factories due north and checking to see if my doors were locked multiple times. I remember bands of kids roaming about yelling, threatening, and barking at passing cars. Big Dogs were out front. Wilmore is like Optimist Park in my book. Some houses were extremely run down while others were fine.

No, Wilmore is not a place I could live.

CharMeck's Profile on Wilmore: http://ww.charmeck.org/qol/template.asp?ID=15

Just for a bonus, that lovely housing project right below Wilmore on Remount: http://ww.charmeck.org/qol/template.asp?id=14

[monsoon]

Indeed. I made the mistake of riding through there last summer as passenger in a convertable with the top down. Scary stuff.

[ElricSeven]

I guess the point we're trying to make is that although it's got some nice stuff, the prices have far outstripped what the neighborhood offers. We've got a little bit of an Internet style (although admitted nowhere near as stupid) frenzy associated with the price movements. Two consecutive years of doubling in value will do that. It isn't like the neighborhood is 4x as good as it was in 2004. The train's left the station on this one.

[monsoon]

Wilmore will catch up to Dilworth and is already quite close. No goofy name will be assigned because the neighborhood association is QUITE happy with their name and its history. No one needs to rebrand an area that is doing just fine.

Where were new houses put up in Wilmore? I only know of 5 scattered throughout the neighborhood and the only bad apartments are those on West Blvd that are possibly on the market now. The bad properties in this area are changing hands quite quickly and the Mint Street and Tryon Street corridors that shoot through the neighborhood have slated plans for mixed use and new condos -- quite an investment and based on sales up and down SouthEnd, it will be well received.

The bad reputation referred above for the neighborhood really has eroded away over the past couple of years and is only held by those of us that have been here to see how bad it was. Most that live in Wilmore are not from Charlotte and don't have the predisposition to think of Wilmore as anything less than another neighborhood near downtown with cool houses.

I am referring to the number of homes that were built there in the 60s - 70s that were built to a pretty low spec level, or rennovations done during that period that look really bad. As stated above, Wilmore will never be a Dilworth. It doesn't have the architecture, past land planning and certainly not the reputation to become that. And being bordered by a major interstate highway and a couple of freeway exits is a huge, let me say again huge uncorrectable defect that will keep Wilmore from being anything even close to a Dilworth. If anything it will be a buffer neighborhood to Dilworth and Southend to some really undesirable parts of Charlotte and the edges close to those places will do well, but certainly not the other side.

[lewy2000]

It seems like very little is being done to get rid of the drugs and other bad elements. Even on the "safer" side of Wilmore, if you drive down Kingston or Park at around 11pm you still see the drug dealers standing on every corner.

And yes, they do bark at you. I asked a cop (who was filling out a police report at my house... some crackhead stole some wiring!) what we could do and her reply was "if you see someone selling drugs you can call the police". Ummm, there are probably 100s of drug deals a day on my street. I'd spend all day on the phone.

Also, those streets are very dark at night. Who do you have to call to get some street lights in that neighborhood? Seems like it would help a little.