Fayetteville, Arkansas

[zman9810]

If you look at a city map you can see exactly what function College Ave. serves in Fayetteville's road system. It along with Archibald Yell and S. School make up State Highway 71 Business which is only north-south route through central Fayetteville. The only other ways to get across town are Crossover Rd in the east or I540 in the west, neither which provide much relief for drivers within the city. Because of this function the traffic load isn't go to lessen even with traffic calming measures. They may slow it down, which is a positive thing, but traffic will continue to increase on College because there no where else for it to go.

The skywalk, which is a part of the Washington County parking deck project in conjunction with St. Paul's Episcopal Church, is needed to make the deck a easily usable facility. If I'm going to the courthouse and know that I'm going to have to cross College at street level I'll first look for a parking spot behind the courthouse and only as a last resort use the deck. Building the deck without the skywalk is a recipe for a failed project. If it is very cold, raining, etc the the covered skywalk will provide the shelter that is needed to comfortably do business at the courthouse. I think it will in itself provide a measure of traffic calming- it is natural to slow some when going under a structure like that.

[Mith242]

I had heard earlier this week about a part of Center St being closed. Finally starting to hear some more details about why. Sounds like there's an old underground drainage tunnel running underneath the street and one of the walls has collapsed. If I understand correctly the problem is that there's an underground stream flowing perpendicular to the tunnel and all the rain earlier this year finally caused one of the walls to collapse. I haven't figured out if this is a natural underground stream or if it's basically the remains of a really old (older than 100 years) drainage tunnel that's been long forgotten. But it apparently goes all the way north to Dickson St. The city didn't know anything about it. Someone apparently was exploring the tunnel and came across the problem and reported it to the city. Anyway I guess it's not the most exciting news but I found it interesting. The pictures of the tunnel I've seen makes it almost look like an old Roman catacomb or something. Guess I never would have guessed there was stuff like that underneath Fayetteville.

[mzweig]

I had heard earlier this week about a part of Center St being closed. Finally starting to hear some more details about why. Sounds like there's an old underground drainage tunnel running underneath the street and one of the walls has collapsed. If I understand correctly the problem is that there's an underground stream flowing perpendicular to the tunnel and all the rain earlier this year finally caused one of the walls to collapse. I haven't figured out if this is a natural underground stream or if it's basically the remains of a really old (older than 100 years) drainage tunnel that's been long forgotten. But it apparently goes all the way north to Dickson St. The city didn't know anything about it. Someone apparently was exploring the tunnel and came across the problem and reported it to the city. Anyway I guess it's not the most exciting news but I found it interesting. The pictures of the tunnel I've seen makes it almost look like an old Roman catacomb or something. Guess I never would have guessed there was stuff like that underneath Fayetteville.

That closure is making a mess of traffic over there. Hope they get it fixed soon, Rod!

M

[thewizard16]

Trumpet, I do like your skybridge comment. I think there are some areas in this town where a well-designed skybridge would be nice, if not for current use, in the future. I-540 at Wedington is a prime place... people are always walking on the little concrete curb across that overpass ,and it's dangerous. Pedestrian environment on that section of Wedington generally stinks anyway, but with all the growth out on that end of the street, you'd think some pedestrian/cycling improvement options would be being considered.

[cowbreath]

If you look at a city map you can see exactly what function College Ave. serves in Fayetteville's road system. It along with Archibald Yell and S. School make up State Highway 71 Business which is only north-south route through central Fayetteville. The only other ways to get across town are Crossover Rd in the east or I540 in the west, neither which provide much relief for drivers within the city. Because of this function the traffic load isn't go to lessen even with traffic calming measures. They may slow it down, which is a positive thing, but traffic will continue to increase on College because there no where else for it to go.

The skywalk, which is a part of the Washington County parking deck project in conjunction with St. Paul's Episcopal Church, is needed to make the deck a easily usable facility. If I'm going to the courthouse and know that I'm going to have to cross College at street level I'll first look for a parking spot behind the courthouse and only as a last resort use the deck. Building the deck without the skywalk is a recipe for a failed project. If it is very cold, raining, etc the the covered skywalk will provide the shelter that is needed to comfortably do business at the courthouse. I think it will in itself provide a measure of traffic calming- it is natural to slow some when going under a structure like that.

I like your comments zman. Anything done to curb traffic or speeds on college is just contrary to the road's major function. We seem to need to try to save our few arterial roads while we can.

[zman9810]

I like your comments zman. Anything done to curb traffic or speeds on college is just contrary to the road's major function. We seem to need to try to save our few arterial roads while we can.

Well.....actually, I do agree with traffic calming to control speed on College because it is crossed by pedestrians and has a lot of access points. It's when calming measures like speed tables and narrowing a 4/5 lane road to 3 lanes are used to try and force traffic off a major street that I think they are a mistake. The use of medians and traffic signals just slow it down and make the flow more orderly. It's a balancing act that has to take into account all the different aspects of each road use in each area.

[Mith242]

This has already been mentioned to a certain degree. But I came across some more info. There will be a hand on design workshop focusing on Fayette Junction on Sept 13th. Then there will be an open house between Sept 14th-18th to view some of the ideas and designs at the Arkansas Research and Technology Park. I'm hoping to stop by sometime during the open house and take some pics. If everything works out I'll try to post some pics.

[Mith242]

The whole skybridge debate might be a moot point. Sounds like many at St Paul's right next door to the proposed parking garage aren't keen to the idea. So the whole idea might not be going anywhere.

[zman9810]

The whole skybridge debate might be a moot point. Sounds like many at St Paul's right next door to the proposed parking garage aren't keen to the idea. So the whole idea might not be going anywhere.

I get the impression that the ones making negative comments about it are the same people who would like Fayetteville to revert to the small quaint college town of 50 years ago. There were some positive comments and as the idea is discussed I think it will gain support. Even the two candidates for county judge aren't showing support for the deck but as Judge Hunton said the plan is looking to the not only present needs but the future also. The deck being built by Central United Methodist Church is evidence that ground level parking is going to continue to be scarce. They were foresighted enough to plan for future needs- hopefully the naysayers will see the need as well.

The one comment about hurting the visibilty of the church doesn't make a lot of sense. The church is half a block away from College and quite a bit downhill. If you are driving on College it does not catch your eye- only if you are on Dickson or East Street is it readily visible.

[Mith242]

I get the impression that the ones making negative comments about it are the same people who would like Fayetteville to revert to the small quaint college town of 50 years ago. There were some positive comments and as the idea is discussed I think it will gain support. Even the two candidates for county judge aren't showing support for the deck but as Judge Hunton said the plan is looking to the not only present needs but the future also. The deck being built by Central United Methodist Church is evidence that ground level parking is going to continue to be scarce. They were foresighted enough to plan for future needs- hopefully the naysayers will see the need as well.

The one comment about hurting the visibility of the church doesn't make a lot of sense. The church is half a block away from College and quite a bit downhill. If you are driving on College it does not catch your eye- only if you are on Dickson or East Street is it readily visible.

I can't say I'm surprised that of course people at the church aren't going to be happy with the idea. If I understand correctly the church owns the land, so people can suggest a parking garage there all they like. But if the church owns the land and aren't keen to the idea I don't see how anyone could force the church to build a parking garage on property they own if they don't want it. Now I do think they would at least consider it because it would benefit the city. But I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few people at the church aren't for the idea and would probably be enough to sink the idea. I have heard of cities using eminent domain to take land for use as in roads. But I've never heard of anyone using eminent domain to build a parking garage. I also doubt Fayetteville would go to that extreme either.

Anyone know what the old Swepco building catercorner that intersection is used for now? Granted even if they had the option of buying that property it would be a lot more expensive because you'd have to demolish the existing building. I guess I'm just curious if there are some other options. If they could set up a way to set up some nearby temporary parking, it might be a good idea to tear down the small parking garage behind the current courthouse and build a larger parking garage. Especially since there apparently have been some errors in the construction of it. Instead of having to spend money correcting those mistakes you could tear it down and build a new larger structure. But I don't see any easy fix on how to set up temporary parking nearby.

[butttrumpet]

Yes, I am one of those people who is nostalgic for the old Fayetteville. Whoever said that pegged me right!

[zman9810]

I can't say I'm surprised that of course people at the church aren't going to be happy with the idea. If I understand correctly the church owns the land, so people can suggest a parking garage there all they like. But if the church owns the land and aren't keen to the idea I don't see how anyone could force the church to build a parking garage on property they own if they don't want it. Now I do think they would at least consider it because it would benefit the city. But I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few people at the church aren't for the idea and would probably be enough to sink the idea. I have heard of cities using eminent domain to take land for use as in roads. But I've never heard of anyone using eminent domain to build a parking garage. I also doubt Fayetteville would go to that extreme either.

Anyone know what the old Swepco building catercorner that intersection is used for now? Granted even if they had the option of buying that property it would be a lot more expensive because you'd have to demolish the existing building. I guess I'm just curious if there are some other options. If they could set up a way to set up some nearby temporary parking, it might be a good idea to tear down the small parking garage behind the current courthouse and build a larger parking garage. Especially since there apparently have been some errors in the construction of it. Instead of having to spend money correcting those mistakes you could tear it down and build a new larger structure. But I don't see any easy fix on how to set up temporary parking nearby.

The old SWEPCO building is now First State Bank. I think they lease out space in the building to other businesses also. Buying it and tearing it down would be a very expensive way to add parking. The current proposal of adding a deck on the existing surface lot owned by St. Paul's is not only a good idea financially for the church and county but benefits the city and businesses in the area. It's an infill development that makes good use of the limited space downtown. It can be made aesthetically compatible with the area and compliment the courthouse.

I think it's unfortunate that one individual can proclaim what is unacceptable for the county and church to do with the lot. Mr Bassett is only now coming forward after the county purchased the Terminella Building as part of the overall plan that includes building the deck. His concern that the deck will be close to his building sounds like he thinks his property is somehow such an elite area that he can control what is built next to him. As for his concerns about the construction process- every city downtown area has this type of close activity. The new building at 5 West Mountain is being built directly on the historic building next to it and the buildings next to the Ren Tower site are also close. Construction techniques are advanced enough that damage can be prevented to historic structures. It sounds like a classic case of "not in my backyard" complaining.

The parking deck is meant to serve the entire county and it's approval should not rest on the desires of a few who don't want the area to change whatsoever. The need for parking now and in the future is clear. It's not going to get cheaper to add parking in the future so let's do it now.

NWA Times article

Edited September 12, 2008 by zman9810

[Mith242]

The old SWEPCO building is now First State Bank. I think they lease out space in the building to other businesses also. Buying it and tearing it down would be a very expensive way to add parking. The current proposal of adding a deck on the existing surface lot owned by St. Paul's is not only a good idea financially for the church and county but benefits the city and businesses in the area. It's an infill development that makes good use of the limited space downtown. It can be made aesthetically compatible with the area and compliment the courthouse.

I think it's unfortunate that one individual can proclaim what is unacceptable for the county and church to do with the lot. Mr Bassett is only now coming forward after the county purchased the Terminella Building as part of the overall plan that includes building the deck. His concern that the deck will be close to his building sounds like he thinks his property is somehow such an elite area that he can control what is built next to him. As for his concerns about the construction process- every city downtown area has this type of close activity. The new building at 5 West Mountain is being built directly on the historic building next to it and the buildings next to the Ren Tower site are also close. Construction techniques are advanced enough that damage can be prevented to historic structures. It sounds like a classic case of "not in my backyard" complaining.

The parking deck is meant to serve the entire county and it's approval should not rest on the desires of a few who don't want the area to change whatsoever. The need for parking now and in the future is clear. It's not going to get cheaper to add parking in the future so let's do it now.

NWA Times article

I do agree it's basically just NIMBYism, as you said, anyone trying to say it could 'damage' the church is just looking for an excuse. Although Bassett does seem to be stirring up trouble, even without his involvement I wouldn't be surprised if some members of the church would be against the deal. That's not to say it can't be done or a majority of the church members couldn't get this done.

[zman9810]

I do agree it's basically just NIMBYism, as you said, anyone trying to say it could 'damage' the church is just looking for an excuse. Although Bassett does seem to be stirring up trouble, even without his involvement I wouldn't be surprised if some members of the church would be against the deal. That's not to say it can't be done or a majority of the church members couldn't get this done.

Actually...Bassett's property is just south of the parking lot and the church is on the other side of the alley. I used to park in the lot myself and it is used by people going into his offices frequently. I hope that doesn't have anything to do with the opposition. There are church members who will be against the deck as there people who will be against any project. I'm concerned that one influential individual could sink a project that would benefit the entire county, church congregation and city. It's interesting that just after a newspaper article about the lack of parking downtown we are talking about opposition to a solution for parking problems.

NWA Times article

Edited September 12, 2008 by zman9810

[Mith242]

Actually...Bassett's property is just south of the parking lot and the church is on the other side of the alley. I used to park in the lot myself and it is used by people going into his offices frequently. I hope that doesn't have anything to do with the opposition. There are church members who will be against the deck as there people who will be against any project. I'm concerned that one influential individual could sink a project that would benefit the entire county, church congregation and city. It's interesting that just after a newspaper article about the lack of parking downtown we are talking about opposition to a solution for parking problems.

NWA Times article

Like you said it is ironic talking about the parking problems while at the same time having a difficult time trying to resolve the exact problem. But I guess that's something that would happen in Fayetteville.

[zman9810]

Like you said it is ironic talking about the parking problems while at the same time having a difficult time trying to resolve the exact problem. But I guess that's something that would happen in Fayetteville.

So true

[Mith242]

Looks like no parking garage or skybridge over College Ave. St Paul's voted against it. I suppose they could make some changes and approach them again at some point. But I think it's going to take quite a bit to win over enough people at the church for it to ever move forward.

On another note the city will soon be looking at allowing street vendors with carts in the city. I wouldn't exactly say I'm a huge fan of it, but I don't see why we don't allow them. I don't know if it would really be that much of a nuisance issue. Might be interesting to have some around in particular locations.

[butttrumpet]

Does anybody have any information about Victory Commons? I was watching Channel 16 last night and they were discussing this as a mixed use project at Razorback Rd and 6th.

[comreguy]

Does anybody have any information about Victory Commons? I was watching Channel 16 last night and they were discussing this as a mixed use project at Razorback Rd and 6th.

It's basically a strip center. I believe Quizno's has signed a lease there. It will be where the Frost Oil building is behind the EZ Mart.

They have mentioned adding multifamily and outparcel users there, but expect a 15-20000 sf strip center to be the only thing built for the time being, if at all.

[Mith242]

A bit off topic, but this has been discussed in this topic before a while back. Talk of Fayetteville trying to separate it's image from the rest of the state has made some mad, especially those in the rest of the state. Ironically the Arkansas Department of Parks and Tourism is now going to basically do something along similar lines. They're finding that they're having a hard time getting the message out about the state because so many people have such a negative image in general. So now they're going to focus on publicizing specific locations in the state. Anyway I know it's off topic but when I read about it, it reminded me about discussions in this topic a while back.

[zman9810]

Looks like no parking garage or skybridge over College Ave. St Paul's voted against it. I suppose they could make some changes and approach them again at some point. But I think it's going to take quite a bit to win over enough people at the church for it to ever move forward.

From what I read the vote by the church vestry against continuing to talk with the county about the deck was 5-4, hardly an overwhelming majority. I think when the lawyer next door proclaimed the deck was unacceptable he influenced enough church members to kill the idea. As County Judge Hunton said the church members may come to regret this as the church grows and years from now they have even bigger parking problems than they do now. When there is a funeral service or wedding at the church now, people have to park blocks away. While it is possible that the church doesn't want to welcome new members that could change as the membership gets older and it's size declines. Sadly though, the opportunity to add parking with the county paying for it will be lost by then. The deck is a chance to plan for the future and the growth that will occur in this area regardless of this vote or the lawyer who is against it.

Edited September 20, 2008 by zman9810

[Mith242]

From what I read the vote against continuing to talk with the county about the deck was 5-4, hardly an overwhelming majority. I think when the lawyer next door proclaimed the deck was unacceptable he influenced enough church members to kill the idea. As County Judge Hunton said the church members may come to regret this as the church grows and years from now they have even bigger parking problems than they do now. When there is a funeral service or wedding at the church now, people have to park blocks away. While it is possible that the church doesn't want to welcome new members that could change as the membership gets older and it's size declines. Sadly though, the opportunity to add parking with the county paying for it will be lost by then. The deck is a chance to plan for the future and the growth that will occur in this area regardless of this vote or the lawyer who is against it.

Yeah it was just 5-4 and there were a few missing or abstaining votes. But I got the impression it would probably have to be a strong majority for it to go forward. At least that's the impression I got. I heard some weren't impressed that they didn't have things planned out well. Sorta like it was just a last minute thing that was thrown together. Maybe if they try approaching them again at a later date and are better prepared. I don't know if this can work out a bit like a developer going through the Planning Commission or the City Council. If things don't work out at first you make some changes or concessions and keep trying till the city approves.

[zman9810]

Yeah it was just 5-4 and there were a few missing or abstaining votes. But I got the impression it would probably have to be a strong majority for it to go forward. At least that's the impression I got. I heard some weren't impressed that they didn't have things planned out well. Sorta like it was just a last minute thing that was thrown together. Maybe if they try approaching them again at a later date and are better prepared. I don't know if this can work out a bit like a developer going through the Planning Commission or the City Council. If things don't work out at first you make some changes or concessions and keep trying till the city approves.

The thing about that is that Judge Hunton is the impetus behind the deck and he is retiring in three months and the two candidates for his office both seem reluctant to support the deck- this is just a easy way out for them. The timing is off for it but I would support another term for Judge Hunton although he will be busy as the first chairman for the NWA Regional Mobility Authority.

[Mith242]

Well the parking deck for the courthouse might not be totally dead. But it might have a slightly different location. Apparently First Christian Church to the south of the Washington County Courthouse has expressed interest. In a lot of ways it would make the whole thing a lot simpler. It would be closer to the courthouse and you also wouldn't have to worry about the expense of a skybridge as in the previous idea. Now it doesn't mean it's a done deal or anything. But the fact that the church expressed interest would appear to be a good sign at least.

[zman9810]

Well the parking deck for the courthouse might not be totally dead. But it might have a slightly different location. Apparently First Christian Church to the south of the Washington County Courthouse has expressed interest. In a lot of ways it would make the whole thing a lot simpler. It would be closer to the courthouse and you also wouldn't have to worry about the expense of a skybridge as in the previous idea. Now it doesn't mean it's a done deal or anything. But the fact that the church expressed interest would appear to be a good sign at least.

Yeah, I saw that. Wonder what their idea is? Unless they own land behind the church that could be used for a deck I don't kow what it could be.