Fayetteville, Arkansas

[jllive]

Here's a nice view of Fayetteville- old and new- town and gown. I thihnk they work together very well.

That's a beautiful shot. Where was it taken from?

[Mith242]

That is a nice shot. I'm also curious where this is. I really need to get out and take some pics myself sometime. But I just haven't been able to lately.

[zman9810]

Here's a nice view of Fayetteville- old and new- town and gown. I thihnk they work together very well.

Thanks. It was taken from the parking lot across from Fire Station No. 1 on Mountain St. For those not familar with Fayetteville- that is Old Main on the University of Arkansas campus on the left and on the right is the Lofts at Underwood Plaza, a newly constructed mixed use development on Dickson Street.

Edited November 24, 2008 by zman9810

[jllive]

The composition of the picture is terrific. What stands out most is the modern architecture contrasting beautifully with the traditional design of Old Main. Something else that came to mind while I was examining the picture was an old gripe of mine. Old Main is a beautiful building. To me, Old Main is how a large brick building should look. The hue of the brick contrasts wonderfully with the other colors found on the building. I think many cities, in an effort to maintain a concurrent design aesthetic or regional architecture, fail to realize that the simple lines and elegance of modern architecture blends well with traditional design. More specifically, I have never been a fan of the WAC building. I think the city missed a great opportunity to have a building that could have emblemized Fayetteville as much as Old Main does. Another example occurred when I first moved to Fayetteville. The university had hired an architectural firm from New York, I believe, to redesign and expand Razorback Stadium. The university decided against using that firm's concept because I believe they felt the design was too "exotic." I think that was another missed opportunity. More recently, however, Fayetteville has shown signs of embracing modern architecture, but I still feel we can go further. I realize that with the state of the economy we won't see a tremendous amount of building activity in Fayetteville, especially in the civic area. I hope that if Fayetteville receives a new performance arts building it won't be another missed opportunity.

[Mith242]

Thanks. It was taken from the parking lot across from Fire Station No. 1 on Mountain St. For those not familar with Fayetteville- that is Old Main on the University of Arkansas campus on the left and on the right is the Lofts at Underwood Plaza, a newly constructed mixed use development on Dickson Street.

Okay I know where you're talking about. I've taken pics of Old Main from there a while back. Obviously quite a while back because I don't remember the Lofts sticking out like that.

The composition of the picture is terrific. What stands out most is the modern architecture contrasting beautifully with the traditional design of Old Main. Something else that came to mind while I was examining the picture was an old gripe of mine. Old Main is a beautiful building. To me, Old Main is how a large brick building should look. The hue of the brick contrasts wonderfully with the other colors found on the building. I think many cities, in an effort to maintain a concurrent design aesthetic or regional architecture, fail to realize that the simple lines and elegance of modern architecture blends well with traditional design. More specifically, I have never been a fan of the WAC building. I think the city missed a great opportunity to have a building that could have emblemized Fayetteville as much as Old Main does. Another example occurred when I first moved to Fayetteville. The university had hired an architectural firm from New York, I believe, to redesign and expand Razorback Stadium. The university decided against using that firm's concept because I believe they felt the design was too "exotic." I think that was another missed opportunity. More recently, however, Fayetteville has shown signs of embracing modern architecture, but I still feel we can go further. I realize that with the state of the economy we won't see a tremendous amount of building activity in Fayetteville, especially in the civic area. I hope that if Fayetteville receives a new performance arts building it won't be another missed opportunity.

I certainly agree with you there. While I'm certainly happy to have the WAC here, I also never was a fan of the building or it's layout. If it was a spectacular building then setting it off the street like that might have worked. But with the way it's designed it only makes it look even more odd and make it stick out. Hopefully we can get the new WAC facility as well and that they'll learn from their mistakes and make the new building much nicer.

[akahogfan]

Another example occurred when I first moved to Fayetteville. The university had hired an architectural firm from New York, I believe, to redesign and expand Razorback Stadium. The university decided against using that firm's concept because I believe they felt the design was too "exotic." I think that was another missed opportunity.

I completely disagree with you. I love the stadium, and while I wish that it were a complete bowl, I know that it can't be until there is a larger fan-base within close driving distance / consistent team results. I think that the stadium now has a very "soft" feel that is warming and welcoming, but looks modern and of good quality. In fact, there are very few stadiums that I would consider to be prettier than our own.

[jdevers]

I completely disagree with you. I love the stadium, and while I wish that it were a complete bowl, I know that it can't be until there is a larger fan-base within close driving distance / consistent team results. I think that the stadium now has a very "soft" feel that is warming and welcoming, but looks modern and of good quality. In fact, there are very few stadiums that I would consider to be prettier than our own.

I couldn't agree more. I have been to every SEC destination except for Athens, GA and I think our stadium is as nice or nicer than all except for possibly Bryant Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa, AL. It is better than most of the Big 12 stadiums I've been to as well, although Memorial Stadium in Norman, OK REALLY fits in with the rest of their campus. I think when either of the conditions you describe are met and we expand the stadium to complete the bowl to the north it will truly be world class.

[Mith242]

Speaking on the stadium, I think it could use more work on the exterior. Especially the west side. I don't find that part appealing at all. As far as the overall design, it's fine to me. But I also wouldn't have minded seeing one of those more modern looking designs as well. I think I might even remember the one design being mentioned. It reminded me a lot of something that you'd see over in Europe. I found the design very interesting, but I also admit though that I'm not sure how well it would have fit in with the rest of the campus. But I do wish it hadn't been dismissed so easily. I also wonder if costs might have played a factor. It looked like it would have had a lot more work done than some of the other designs. They spent quite a bit on the stadium and still didn't even touch some areas like the west exterior.

[jdevers]

Yea, the west side exterior isn't perfect. A facade was initially supposed to be installed there like on the east side, but Razorback Rd is too close as of right now the sidewalk there is really too small on game day. I'm hoping with the re-alignment of Razorback Rd that more room will be available and the facade can be installed as intended.

[jllive]

I completely disagree with you. I love the stadium, and while I wish that it were a complete bowl, I know that it can't be until there is a larger fan-base within close driving distance / consistent team results. I think that the stadium now has a very "soft" feel that is warming and welcoming, but looks modern and of good quality. In fact, there are very few stadiums that I would consider to be prettier than our own.

My point is that there is a tendency to play it safe when it comes to building large public spaces. If you're building an apartment complex, then play it safe because you're trying to maximize your dollar. But, if you have several millions to spend on a building that is meant to attract people from a large regional area, then don't be afraid to be creative. My issue deals more with the current WAC building. If you're going to construct a huge building that is emblematic of your entertainment district and is right in the heart of Fayetteville, then make it a wonder to the eyes.

[edensfall]

My point is that there is a tendency to play it safe when it comes to building large public spaces. If you're building an apartment complex, then play it safe because you're trying to maximize your dollar. But, if you have several millions to spend on a building that is meant to attract people from a large regional area, then don't be afraid to be creative. My issue deals more with the current WAC building. If you're going to construct a huge building that is emblematic of your entertainment district and is right in the heart of Fayetteville, then make it a wonder to the eyes.

I couldn't agree with you more!

[zman9810]

The composition of the picture is terrific. What stands out most is the modern architecture contrasting beautifully with the traditional design of Old Main. Something else that came to mind while I was examining the picture was an old gripe of mine. Old Main is a beautiful building. To me, Old Main is how a large brick building should look. The hue of the brick contrasts wonderfully with the other colors found on the building. I think many cities, in an effort to maintain a concurrent design aesthetic or regional architecture, fail to realize that the simple lines and elegance of modern architecture blends well with traditional design. More specifically, I have never been a fan of the WAC building. I think the city missed a great opportunity to have a building that could have emblemized Fayetteville as much as Old Main does........ I hope that if Fayetteville receives a new performance arts building it won't be another missed opportunity.

It's surprising that the current WAC exists at all. It was built against a lot of opposition back in the late 80's due to neighboring businesses and residents thinking that it would cause their property values and so their taxes to increase, which indeed happened. It also spurred the redevelopment of of the decaying Dickson Street area to great sucess. The original plan was for the WAC to have over 2500 seats, which may have precluded the current debate of expanding the

WAC out of Fayetteville. A compromise between the city, UA and citizens led to the construction of the current facilty, which for it's time was a HUGE step above the performing arts spaces available in NWA.

I had always heard that the Waltons had donated $10 million towards the WAC but after some research it's turns out they only donated $5 million. The rest was financed by the City of Fayetteville and the University of Arkansas. If this information is wrong I'd welcome anyone to provide correct figures.

I don't think anyone would see the current facilty as an achitectural wonder or what should be copied. It and the Nadine Baum Studios would be a good compliment for a new building housing a larger theater that would also fit in with the rest of Dickson Street's buildings. It could incorporate other building materials much as the Lofts at Underwood Plaza has done. A new structure on the lot across West Avenue from the WAC could be an architectural marvel that all of NWA could take pride in much as the Crystal Bridges visual arts museum will be in Bentonville.

Edited November 30, 2008 by zman9810

[butttrumpet]

You know what should happen here is that the folks from the NWA Museum foundation need to cooperate with the city to present a plan to incorporate both facilities into one big knockout space. That would create a cultural synergy that would compete well against Bentonville, plus both entities could contribute their fundraising to the project.

Edit:

Perhaps the current WAC could be converted into the NWA Nature Museum. That would save them a lot of money, and make more sense than having two venues in one small area. It already has a nice little outdoor area that could be used for teaching, displays, etc. Surely it would be less expensive to renovate the current WAC into a museum than to build from scratch. I am going to email the NWA Museum people my idea.

Edited December 1, 2008 by butttrumpet

[Mith242]

You know what should happen here is that the folks from the NWA Museum foundation need to cooperate with the city to present a plan to incorporate both facilities into one big knockout space. That would create a cultural synergy that would compete well against Bentonville, plus both entities could contribute their fundraising to the project.

Edit:

Perhaps the current WAC could be converted into the NWA Nature Museum. That would save them a lot of money, and make more sense than having two venues in one small area. It already has a nice little outdoor area that could be used for teaching, displays, etc. Surely it would be less expensive to renovate the current WAC into a museum than to build from scratch. I am going to email the NWA Museum people my idea.

It's an interesting idea. But I think the WAC wants to keep the current facility even if they decide to build another facility in Fayetteville. But if they were to ever pull out of that space it would be great to see a museum located there.

[butttrumpet]

Here is a link to the new Main Street infrastructure improvements stimulus proposed to Obama.

This document is over 800 pages long, but the projects are listed by states. Fayetteville has several requests.

One thing I noticed in particular is the completion of Crossover to the city limits, the extension of Joyce to I-540, and over $6 million for additional "safety improvements" to College Avenue. I assume that means extending the downtown improvements out into midtown and southtown.

I know these were things cooked up and planned for by the Coody administration for this survey. I hope the Jordan folks can see it through should this thing pass.

I am so glad Fayetteville plans ahead so well. This survey called for infrastructure projects that could be fast tracked in 09-10. Good thing we had a long wish list if this thing goes through.

Report: http://usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicreco...port-200812.pdf

Edited December 9, 2008 by butttrumpet

[OnDickson]

Great info, thanks trumpet.

Definitely glad that Fayetteville has the long range plans for these projects--lets just hope that some (preferably all!) make the final program cut.

A Joyce Street extension to I540 would do wonders for the entire retail area surrounding the mall area. I can't help but wonder if that project is really going to be feasable though. Seems there is at least one very large obstacle in the way of that road extension--namely Zero Mountain. I actually had heard that the city was examining adding a new 540 interchange at the proposed Van Asche extension rather than extending Joyce. I think a Joyce interchange would definitely be preferable if there is a way to make it happen. A new interchange for either Joyce or Van Asche would be an economic home run for that retail area.

Edited December 9, 2008 by OnDickson

[Snaple4]

I concur that a new interchange would help a lot. Of course having Joyce continue to 540 would be optimal. Maybe go over the river, around up on the Northern side of the hill and connect on the north. Not sure what development is going in up there though or where Zero mountain has its facilities. Doing a Van Ash exit looks to be the most economically feasible. I wish they would just include bus and carpool lanes and such. At the very least have a place for proper expansion for these. You would think that smaller cities would take more away from larger ones. Especially a region that is developing like ours.

[Mith242]

Extending Van Asche does look more feasible but that also places it pretty close to the divide between I-540 and the Fulbright Expressway. I believe there has to be more distance between the two. Seems like either way you're going to have to curve or angle a road to get it to be placed on I-540 where it needs to be. Don't see why they couldn't curve Joyce southwards to miss Zero Mountain and then over to I-540.

Speaking of future road projects. Didn't I hear Jordan saying something about wanting to have a circular 5 lane road around Fayetteville?

[zman9810]

Extending Van Asche does look more feasible but that also places it pretty close to the divide between I-540 and the Fulbright Expressway. I believe there has to be more distance between the two. Seems like either way you're going to have to curve or angle a road to get it to be placed on I-540 where it needs to be. Don't see why they couldn't curve Joyce southwards to miss Zero Mountain and then over to I-540.

Speaking of future road projects. Didn't I hear Jordan saying something about wanting to have a circular 5 lane road around Fayetteville?

I believe you are right about Van Asche being too close for an interchange- they are supposed to be a mile apart at least. I can't get the master street plan to display right at this time but I believe it shows a new interchange between the Johnson exit and the Van Asche overpass. That would be the ideal solution- exactly where Zero Mtn. would affect it I don't know.

Jordqan's plan for a multilane loop is one of his worst ideas. The cost and disruption for a new road like that would be sky high. It would be a sprawl inducing nightmare and not solve the traffic problems in the central part of Fayetteville. I doubt we hear a lot about that idea over the next four years.

[butttrumpet]

RE: Funding

You know this whole list presented by the mayors is like $80 billion. Considering we are giving Paulson $700 billion to use at his discretion, why CAN't Obama give us the funds for ALL of these projects?

RE: Jordan's Loop

Yeah, Jordan's idea for the highway loop sounds like an elementary kid trying to do city planning. His idea, I believe, was to build a loop and then put transit stops every half mile or so. Bus stops, I think. Its goofy, and doesn't really make sense unless you are planning out a city from scratch (on construction paper, using crayons).

Edited December 9, 2008 by butttrumpet

[cowbreath]

Speaking of Jordan and his crazy-sounding idea about the loop, does anyone have a comment about the team he has put together for his transition period: [url=http://www.nwanews.com/nwat/News/71900/]Jordan assembles

[cowbreath]

Jordan has assessed his priorities for the coming term with the help of the transition team. (Article)

Mayor-elect Lioneld Jordan\'s transition committee has chosen four main areas it wants to focus on: budget, infrastructure/environmental/cultural concerns, economic development and communication.

It's not a bad list. So far I guess it is just hoopla until he actually gets to start doing stuff.

[jdevers]

Jordan has assessed his priorities for the coming term with the help of the transition team. (Article)

It's not a bad list. So far I guess it is just hoopla until he actually gets to start doing stuff.

My only problem is 70% of what city government does is on that list...kind of vague.

Would be like if you hired a new football coach and in his first public press conference he says "I have assembled a fine staff of assistant coaches and during our first meeting we came up with a priorities list. We are going to focus on making the offense score more points, making the defense prevent more points, and our special teams will improve as well." While true, it is what any coach would do, it is kind of vague and tells you nothing of what they are even going to TRY to do.

[butttrumpet]

My only problem is 70% of what city government does is on that list...kind of vague.

Would be like if you hired a new football coach and in his first public press conference he says "I have assembled a fine staff of assistant coaches and during our first meeting we came up with a priorities list. We are going to focus on making the offense score more points, making the defense prevent more points, and our special teams will improve as well." While true, it is what any coach would do, it is kind of vague and tells you nothing of what they are even going to TRY to do.

This is kind of how I feel about it. Okay, so lets sit down and determine the "direction" we want our city to go in.

Ok. I guess.

It kind of echos my feelings about Jordan's "Loop" idea. We aren't starting a city from scratch here, guys. My feeling is that Jordan really doesn't fully understand how the city runs, and now that he is in charge, he needs all the help he can get. There's definitely going to be a learning curve with this guy. They aren't going to re-invent the wheel, although that sounds like what they are trying to do.

We've traded in a leader for government by committee apparently. Why not just do away with the mayor all together?

[zman9810]

Would be like if you hired a new football coach and in his first public press conference he says "I have assembled a fine staff of assistant coaches and during our first meeting we came up with a priorities list. We are going to focus on making the offense score more points, making the defense prevent more points, and our special teams will improve as well." While true, it is what any coach would do, it is kind of vague and tells you nothing of what they are even going to TRY to do.

Great analogy and very apt.