Fayetteville, Arkansas

[Mith242]

Well, this surprises no one, but I had a conversation with someone "in the know" so to speak about WAC's plans, and the tone was not very encouraging for the potential of the future facility being in Fayetteville. I would have loved to pick their brain a bit more about it, but there wasn't time. I really think that more than just the current WAC patrons need to start being more outspoken about why they want the main facility to remain in Fayetteville. Send letters, emails, write letters to the editor, etc. It may be a long shot, but at least they'll know how much it means to us as a community. (It would be particularly helpful if some of those Rogers/Bentonville folks that like having the WAC on Dickson street would speak up too...)

I hate to say it but I think a lot of us have felt this was pretty much a foregone conclusion when the subject was first brought up. I won't say the WAC was totally ready to shut out the possibility of Fayetteville for the future location. But I do seriously think the WAC went into it biased against Fayetteville. It won't be impossible for Fayetteville to land the future location, but I think Fayetteville is going to have to come up with a pretty sweet deal to convince the WAC to put the future facility in Fayetteville.

[thewizard16]

I hate to say it but I think a lot of us have felt this was pretty much a foregone conclusion when the subject was first brought up. I won't say the WAC was totally ready to shut out the possibility of Fayetteville for the future location. But I do seriously think the WAC went into it biased against Fayetteville. It won't be impossible for Fayetteville to land the future location, but I think Fayetteville is going to have to come up with a pretty sweet deal to convince the WAC to put the future facility in Fayetteville.

I think (based off the short conversation) that some of their reasoning is that it will be easier to build it elsewhere and since Fayetteville's venue will still be "active" it lets them reach out to more of the metro. The risk they run with that thinking is 1. losing what makes the WAC unique (atmosphere and surrounding area of Dickson Street is simply not going to be topped by a new construction arts and entertainment district in Rogers or Bentonville, plain and simple), and 2. the WAC will no longer be a destination attraction, it'll start feeling like there are two options and they're more city-based. I think they'll end up cannibalizing some of their own market if they locate the facility outside of Fayetteville, and it won't have the same destination effect as it does now, which could also hurt marketability and perception. I of course admit that Fayetteville stands to lose a lot if the main facility locates in Rogers/Bentonville, but I think the real question on their minds should be what is in the best interests of the region and the future of the arts center, and I just don't see how the Rogers/Bentonville option is better for them than working a little harder to make the Fayetteville one a reality. I do think the city (and the university, although I don't know what they can directly do) need to be trying to put together as sweet a deal as possible to make the new location stay here. I also think (as other previous comments have said) it needs to be a "take it or leave it" offer. Don't throw perks at them if they're going to hurt the city, make it clear they only get perks and such if they keep the main one here.

[aerotive]

Yeah I certainly think that Fayetteville should use the whole parking issue for some leverage against the WAC. And if the WAC decides to build elsewhere the city shouldn't allow the WAC control over that parking area. It may seem 'wrong' to hand over that amount of money to an organization like the WAC. But I think it's worth it if it means Fayetteville keeps the main facility. On the other note I've been a little surprise to hear so much outcry about turning the lights off during that time period on the trail system. I know it does inconvenience some, but I guess I wouldn't think just that many people actually use the trail during those time periods. Is it right to force all city workers and employees to take another day off just to keep the lights on? That seems a bit extreme to me. I'm a big fan of the trail system. Perhaps I'm biased because I know I don't use the trails during that time period. But it seems like a reasonable concession to me.

The trail light thing to me is rather useless symbolism that doesn't make sense. They have the money to build new (inferior) trail crossings on North and on Old Missouri, then can't keep the lights on? If that were really true, then stop building new trail components until the city's financial situation has improved and what's already been built can be maintained and operated.

Has the city released any figures on what turning off these lights saves? My guess would be a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars a month. An additional furlough seems totally unnecessary...would probably save enough to keep the lights on for the next 50 years. Perhaps I'm just way off on what it costs to run them.

Edited May 7, 2010 by aerotive

[Mith242]

The trail light thing to me is rather useless symbolism that doesn't make sense. They have the money to build new (inferior) trail crossings on North and on Old Missouri, then can't keep the lights on? If that were really true, then stop building new trail components until the city's financial situation has improved and what's already been built can be maintained and operated.

Has the city released any figures on what turning off these lights saves? My guess would be a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars a month. An additional furlough seems totally unnecessary...would probably save enough to keep the lights on for the next 50 years. Perhaps I'm just way off on what it costs to run them.

Seems like I saw Councilman Petty mention it somewhere. I'll try to look it up but I was thinking it was higher than I would have thought. But the figure I saw might not have been per month.

[Mith242]

Okay according to Councilman Petty, the city would save over $50,000 for the rest of the year turning of the lights off during that time period. As far as the city using money to build additional trails. I can see that argument. The city does have to spend some money adding additional trails and I imagine at some point we will start having some years where there may not be any additions. But I also want to point out that a lot of the trails that are being added have gotten grants. Yeah the city might save some money but it also would have to forfeit those grants.

[aerotive]

I searched around for info on this and found this thread over at the Flyer:

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2010/04/29/trail-lights-to-be-turned-off-after-11-p-m/

At the very bottom Petty comments that the savings for the rest of the year is $8,000. $50,000 isn't chump change, even in a budget of 120 mil...

but eight grand? I'd say leave them on. Anyway it'd be nice to get a hard, reliable, non-changing number.

Edited May 7, 2010 by aerotive

[zman9810]

Well, this surprises no one, but I had a conversation with someone "in the know" so to speak about WAC's plans, and the tone was not very encouraging for the potential of the future facility being in Fayetteville. I would have loved to pick their brain a bit more about it, but there wasn't time. I really think that more than just the current WAC patrons need to start being more outspoken about why they want the main facility to remain in Fayetteville. Send letters, emails, write letters to the editor, etc. It may be a long shot, but at least they'll know how much it means to us as a community. (It would be particularly helpful if some of those Rogers/Bentonville folks that like having the WAC on Dickson street would speak up too...)

Yes, it would be a big surprise for the expanision to be in Fayetteville at this point. Our city adminstration has failed miserably in the effort (or lack of effort) in keeping the main facility in the city. The mayor signaled his intent to quietly let it go during the campaign and has followed through on it since then. One of his first acts in office should have been the creation of a task force of business, educational and community leaders with the sole goal of convincing the WAC to expand here. A clear and substantial plan of action should have been developed and followed through on. A line of constant communication with the WAC Boards should have been opened and quick response team assembled. The city adminstration could have sowed the seeds for a grass roots effort to sway the decison in Fayetteville's favor. Instead we have seen only token statements of support for the main facility remaining in town and those are only made when they are pushed to do so.

Edited May 8, 2010 by zman9810

[comreguy]

Yes, it would be a big surprise for the expanision to be in Fayetteville at this point. Our city adminstration has failed miserably in the effort (or lack of effort) in keeping the main facility in the city. The mayor signaled his intent to quietly let it go during the campaign and has followed through on it since then. One of his first acts in office should have been the creation of a task force of business, educational and community leaders with the sole goal of convincing the WAC to expand here. A clear and substantial plan of action should have been developed and followed through on. A line of constant communication with the WAC Boards should have been opened and quick response team assembled. The city adminstration could have sowed the seeds for a grass roots effort to sway the decison in Fayetteville's favor. Instead we have seen only token statements of support for the main facility remaining in town and those are only made when they are pushed to do so.

Let's not get too bent out of shape regarding the WAC's recent search for new property for expansion. They still need free land (achievable) and a gift of over $100MM to even get the ball rolling. I have been told that neither the Walton Family, nor the Walton Foundation, are willing to be the financiers of the new project. Can you tell me anyone else that could afford to step up to that amount? I can't think of anyone...

I think it will be many years before a new WAC is built. I do think that the City of Fayetteville and its residents need to be proactive to keep the WAC here. We have time to build a lot of support.

Edited May 9, 2010 by comreguy

[zman9810]

Let's not get too bent out of shape regarding the WAC's recent search for new property for expansion. They still need free land (achievable) and a gift of over $100MM to even get the ball rolling. I have been told that neither the Walton Family, nor the Walton Foundation, are willing to be the financiers of the new project. Can you tell me anyone else that could afford to step up to that amount? I can't think of anyone...

I think it will be many years before a new WAC is built. I do think that the City of Fayetteville and its residents need to be proactive to keep the WAC here. We have time to build a lot of support.

The WAC Board originally set a March 15, 2010 deadline for site proposal submissions with a site selection deadline of late summer. The site proposal deadline was extended to August 2, 2010 due to concerns about the economy and to give parties more time to put together more detailed proposals. The four and a half month extension would set the site selection for a time before the end of the year.

The site selection will be a selling point for donors. Once it is selected there is little chance of it being reconsidered so time is running out very quickly. This is not something that has been suddenly proposed - the City of Fayetteville has known about it for years and the current administration has done very little to address it. The mayor's office has done nothing but give half-hearted words of support for keeping the main facilty in Fayetteville. They have made a deal that came out at the last minute to give $289,000 to the WAC but without a stipulation that the main facility remain in town- that does no good at all and endangers any support for the paid parking plan.

Considering that the site that will be most likely chosen is Crystal Bridges it is also most likely that the Waltons, in whatever way, will be the primary donors. The studies done and the criteria put out all lead to that same conclusion.

[comreguy]

The WAC Board originally set a March 15, 2010 deadline for site proposal submissions with a site selection deadline of late summer. The site proposal deadline was extended to August 2, 2010 due to concerns about the economy and to give parties more time to put together more detailed proposals. The four and a half month extension would set the site selection for a time before the end of the year.

The site selection will be a selling point for donors. Once it is selected there is little chance of it being reconsidered so time is running out very quickly. This is not something that has been suddenly proposed - the City of Fayetteville has known about it for years and the current administration has done very little to address it. The mayor's office has done nothing but give half-hearted words of support for keeping the main facilty in Fayetteville. They have made a deal that came out at the last minute to give $289,000 to the WAC but without a stipulation that the main facility remain in town- that does no good at all and endangers any support for the paid parking plan.

Considering that the site that will be most likely chosen is Crystal Bridges it is also most likely that the Waltons, in whatever way, will be the primary donors. The studies done and the criteria put out all lead to that same conclusion.

I am well aware of the process and assisted in submitting proposals for properties to be considered. You are correct that the future location selected will likely be near the Crystal Bridges Museum, if they don't expand on Dickson Street.

You are incorrect that the Walton's will have any financial influence over the future location. They are subsidizing the current facility to the tune of almose $1M per year. You think they want to add another $100M just to build a new facility, plus continue to subsidize both locations? I have been told "no" emphatically by people very high up and who have influence over the process.

Free land plus a NINE FIGURE donation for a new facility is a pipe dream. None of the major cities in the region can financially support a new center. It will have to be private donations. If you read the requirements for the new facility, the nine figure donation is simply the start. They will have a huge budget and will need yearly donations over and above the seed gift.

Mercy Hosptial needed to raise $60M in better economic conditions, and struggled mightily to get there.

They will select the new property, design a new facility, and use them to spend years trying to raise money to begin construction. I think that the reason the City of Fayetteville has not pushed harder to keep the WAC on Dickson, is because as you said, it is a foregone conclusion that they are going to focus on Bentonville.

It will take over a year to design the building, over two years to build the facility, and many more years to raise the money. That is the bottom line. Just because they select a property in Bentonville does not mean the facility is a given to be built now or anytime in the remotely near future.

[zman9810]

I am well aware of the process and assisted in submitting proposals for properties to be considered. You are correct that the future location selected will likely be near the Crystal Bridges Museum, if they don't expand on Dickson Street.

You are incorrect that the Walton's will have any financial influence over the future location. They are subsidizing the current facility to the tune of almose $1M per year. You think they want to add another $100M just to build a new facility, plus continue to subsidize both locations? I have been told "no" emphatically by people very high up and who have influence over the process.

Free land plus a NINE FIGURE donation for a new facility is a pipe dream. None of the major cities in the region can financially support a new center. It will have to be private donations. If you read the requirements for the new facility, the nine figure donation is simply the start. They will have a huge budget and will need yearly donations over and above the seed gift.

Mercy Hosptial needed to raise $60M in better economic conditions, and struggled mightily to get there.

They will select the new property, design a new facility, and use them to spend years trying to raise money to begin construction. I think that the reason the City of Fayetteville has not pushed harder to keep the WAC on Dickson, is because as you said, it is a foregone conclusion that they are going to focus on Bentonville.

It will take over a year to design the building, over two years to build the facility, and many more years to raise the money. That is the bottom line. Just because they select a property in Bentonville does not mean the facility is a given to be built now or anytime in the remotely near future.

AS of 2008 Crystal Bridges had construction costs of $66 million and an art collection worth $257 million. It is only reasonable to believe that those figures are much higher now and will continue to rise. To think that a nine figure contribution by the same donors for a glorious new performing arts center to complement the museum is out of the question doesn't seem reasonable.

I do agree that they don't want to continue to subsidize the present facility after the new one is built. They would rather the City of Fayetteville pay for it while they control what events occur there. That way there will be no competition for ticket buyers and financial support.

It is easy to say what one will do in the future now and then change one's mind as time passes and circumstances change.

[comreguy]

AS of 2008 Crystal Bridges had construction costs of $66 million and an art collection worth $257 million. It is only reasonable to believe that those figures are much higher now and will continue to rise. To think that a nine figure contribution by the same donors for a glorious new performing arts center to complement the museum is out of the question doesn't seem reasonable.

I do agree that they don't want to continue to subsidize the present facility after the new one is built. They would rather the City of Fayetteville pay for it while they control what events occur there. That way there will be no competition for ticket buyers and financial support.

It is easy to say what one will do in the future now and then change one's mind as time passes and circumstances change.

You are free to use conjecture. I will believe what I heard from the source. And maybe in few years, one of us can come back here to gig the other on who was right. I am certainly not above eating crow.

[Mith242]

I don't know, maybe the new WAC facility won't be built anytime soon. Maybe that's what Jordan is counting on. But I still don't think Fayetteville shouldn't take a 'sit back and wait' approach for the new facility. I think Fayetteville is already going to be at a disadvantage for the new facility. I think a proactive approach will at least give the city a better shot. Maybe Fayetteville doesn't have any chance for the new facility, I don't know. But I can't say I like the current 'just give up' attitude that Jordan seems to be emanating.

[zman9810]

I don't know, maybe the new WAC facility won't be built anytime soon. Maybe that's what Jordan is counting on. But I still don't think Fayetteville shouldn't take a 'sit back and wait' approach for the new facility. I think Fayetteville is already going to be at a disadvantage for the new facility. I think a proactive approach will at least give the city a better shot. Maybe Fayetteville doesn't have any chance for the new facility, I don't know. But I can't say I like the current 'just give up' attitude that Jordan seems to be emanating.

Oh, I don't think it will be built anytime soon. I would imagine there won't be a date set to start construction until well after Crystal Bridges is open and that may be many more years. On the other hand I think a site will be selected this year and once the decision is made it won't be reconsidered. Once Fayetteville loses the premier performing arts center in NWA it will be gone forever.

I remember during the mayoral campaign debate at the University of Arkansas a question was aked about the future of the arts in Fayetteville. Coody answered by saying that keeping the WAC expansion is Fayetteville was very important and a top priority. Jordan didn't mention the WAC in his answer and instead said that the local music scene was important to him. So, the current lack of concern comes as no big surprise.

[thewizard16]

I'll chime back in on the WAC and Fayetteville for a second. Even though the deck appears stacked against us, I have heard that Jordan and his staff are very active on this project and it is a top priority to keep the WAC in Fayetteville. The relative silence is to be expected- proposals aren't due until August and since Fayetteville is going to have to work a little harder to keep the WAC here than Rogers/Bentonville would have to work to lure it, the city does not want to tip their hand and let the Rogers/Bentonville committees trying to lure it north to have time to develop a reactionary proposal to Fayetteville's. Keep an eye out and an ear open, I've been told (and am optimistic) that all will be explained come August.

[zman9810]

I'll chime back in on the WAC and Fayetteville for a second. Even though the deck appears stacked against us, I have heard that Jordan and his staff are very active on this project and it is a top priority to keep the WAC in Fayetteville. The relative silence is to be expected- proposals aren't due until August and since Fayetteville is going to have to work a little harder to keep the WAC here than Rogers/Bentonville would have to work to lure it, the city does not want to tip their hand and let the Rogers/Bentonville committees trying to lure it north to have time to develop a reactionary proposal to Fayetteville's. Keep an eye out and an ear open, I've been told (and am optimistic) that all will be explained come August.

That is good to hear and I guess they deserve the benefit of the doubt until August. It has been the lack of a plan whatsoever publicly and the lackluster words of support that have led me to question the mayor's handling of the situation. The last minute addition of $289,000 for the WAC to the paid parking budget without a committment by them to expand in Fayeteville doesn't help the perception that the adminstration isn't doing enough.

[wmr]

If WAC decides on Benton County, the City of Fayetteville should pull back support for the Walton organization and try to get control back over the WAC building. Take more local, Fayetteville-centric control over the venue and make it a little funkier and more relevant to the city that its based in.

Also, should the WAC head north (in reality) the city needs to make a strong effort to develop its own cultural or natural history museum on the lot adjacent anyway, and proceed as planned with a parking structure.

A big part of the WAC's draw is being able to be out and about on Dickson before and afterwards. Maybe we won't continue to get the broadway shows, but I think the facility can be transitioned intos something more accessible to all of the community rather than just the uppercrust.

There's enough going on in Fayetteville with the university to ensure a steady stream of entertainment at the venue.

I think Fayetteville really needs to take an all or nothing approach. Bentonville will never be Fayetteville, or Plano, Texas, whichever its striving to become.

[Mith242]

I guess I've been wondering if the city would actually cut ties to the WAC if they build their main facility in Benton County. Maybe some officials feel having the WAC's 'second tier' facility is better than to actually find an alternative group to run the current facility and try to compete directly with the WAC. I certainly do think the city should look into cutting ties with the WAC if they choose Benton County. But I wouldn't want them to do it just as a knee jerk reaction to the WAC. I'd like to think someone else could run the current facility. Either way the Fayetteville facility could possibly end up as the 'second tier' facility. I'm not sure any Fayetteville group could get the financial backing that the WAC gets. But if we're bound to end up with the secondary facility in the area, I'd probably just assume someone else than the WAC runs it. As long as some other group could bring basically what will end up being the WAC's secondary programs.

[zman9810]

I guess I've been wondering if the city would actually cut ties to the WAC if they build their main facility in Benton County. Maybe some officials feel having the WAC's 'second tier' facility is better than to actually find an alternative group to run the current facility and try to compete directly with the WAC. I certainly do think the city should look into cutting ties with the WAC if they choose Benton County. But I wouldn't want them to do it just as a knee jerk reaction to the WAC. I'd like to think someone else could run the current facility. Either way the Fayetteville facility could possibly end up as the 'second tier' facility. I'm not sure any Fayetteville group could get the financial backing that the WAC gets. But if we're bound to end up with the secondary facility in the area, I'd probably just assume someone else than the WAC runs it. As long as some other group could bring basically what will end up being the WAC's secondary programs.

The concern about the WAC keeping control of the present facilty after expanding elsewhere is that they will use it to squash competition for tickets buyers and financial support to Fayetteville's detriment. If they see that ticket sales are weak for events at the new facility they won't want to schedule an event at the secondary facilty that will attract ticketbuyers. They won't want donations going to the secondary facility when they could be going to the new one.

The Fayetteville building would be a second tier facility if the expansion is built elsewhere but could carve it's own niche in the NWA arts scene. With the freedom to attract any and all events it could build it's own following and by being on Dickson Street in Fayetteville would be very successful. A wider range of events could be held there and it could be used by non-profit groups at times. It would be more accessible to the university for student use. Even the WAC could use it to fulfill their stated mission of bringing the arts to all of NWA- they just wouldn't have say over who else uses it.

Edited May 14, 2010 by zman9810

[thewizard16]

That is good to hear and I guess they deserve the benefit of the doubt until August. It has been the lack of a plan whatsoever publicly and the lackluster words of support that have led me to question the mayor's handling of the situation. The last minute addition of $289,000 for the WAC to the paid parking budget without a committment by them to expand in Fayeteville doesn't help the perception that the adminstration isn't doing enough.

For what it's worth, they're well aware of the perception (and even of us, haha), but feel the results will more than justify the current inconvenience/poor perception. No idea if the city would, or would even consider, cutting ties if the WAC goes elsewhere. I might ask about that closer to August.

[aerotive]

Saw this map of Fayetteville over at the city-data forum, I think it's a great, interesting map and a useful resource, especially for new residents.

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/178/fayettevilleareas.jpg

[zman9810]

That's very interesting- wonder who did the analysis? It almost sounds like someone that is relatively new to the area and has been exploring it. It certainly would make a good guide for newcomers.

Edited May 20, 2010 by zman9810

[thewizard16]

That's very interesting- wonder who did the analysis? It almost sounds like someone that is relatively new to the area and has been exploring it. It certainly would make a good guide for newcomers.

Yeah, I asked them if I could steal that map from time to time when people come through my office. It was created by "LocalType" on the City-Data Arkansas forum, and I thought they did a pretty good job of giving people moving to the area a look into different sections of town.

[Mith242]

Tyson donated $75,000 to the Fayetteville Natl Cemetery. They'll be able to purchase one of the nearby lots. Although as far as I know the old livestock sale barn property is still basically in limbo.

[thewizard16]

I'm not sure exactly which thread this belongs in, but it's in Fayetteville, so this is where I'm sticking it, for now anyway. I have noticed some activity at the old (Conoco?) gas station at the intersection of North/Wedington and Garland over the past couple weeks. A couple nice cars parked there, people walking around the property taking notes, etc. I noticed two days ago that a City of Fayetteville public hearing sign has gone up on the property. I'm hoping this is a good indication that the property, currently one of the biggest eyesores at a high-traffic intersection in Fayetteville, is about to be redeveloped. Has anyone heard anything about this?