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Mith242

Fayetteville, Arkansas

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So..does anyone know for certain what is being built in the Forrest Hills PZD on Wedington? I assumed it was the Neighborhood Market but now I'm not so sure. Nwaonline reports that a 8.5 acre section has been divided into 5 lots and they are ready to be sold and built on. It also mentioned a planned NM but the building under construction is well on it's way.

Where did everybody go?????

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Yeah, it's been a pretty quiet 2011. I believe I heard something about some offices going into that area near where a future neighborhood market would go. Not sure if it's going to be a strip mall or just some small office buildings.

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Yeah, it's been a pretty quiet 2011. I believe I heard something about some offices going into that area near where a future neighborhood market would go. Not sure if it's going to be a strip mall or just some small office buildings.

Neighborhood market is under construction and they plan shops adjacent to it. There are several outlots that will be restaurants/retail/office in the future.

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Sounds like the Clarion Inn is up for sale. I'm assuming the Clarion is still open and it's not necessarily closing. I'm not sure if this means someone else will run the Clarion Inn or is the potential buyer could do something different.

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Sounds like the Clarion Inn is up for sale. I'm assuming the Clarion is still open and it's not necessarily closing. I'm not sure if this means someone else will run the Clarion Inn or is the potential buyer could do something different.

That place could certainly use a remodel (or full renovation) and a new brand, in my opinion. There's nothing really wrong with the Clairion brand, but many of their properties are older and aren't in the best shape anymore. They could keep it in the ICHotels group and renovate it into a Holiday Inn though- that chain has been working on redoing all their properties and rebuilding their brand image as of late.

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The streamside protection ordinance passed in Fayetteville. If the city follows it's own ordinance the construction of trails like Scull Creek and Mud Creek will cease as neither could be built under the dictates in the ordinance. This is a fine mess the city has made for itself- how will it be resolved?

I wanted to post this over here to discuss more about the new ordinance. Especially since some of my comments won't really have anything to do with the trail system. I admit this doesn't really involve me personally so my viewpoint may be different. If I did live near a creek I admit I would imagine I'd be somewhat miffed about the idea. But just speaking for me personally I think I could probably live with the ordinance. But in some instances it reminds me a bit of say if you lived in a historic neighborhood. You can't really go out and make changes to your house as you could in other places. But we've never really seen anything like this streamside ordinance before so I can certainly understand a lot of people not being happy with it. But just because this doesn't affect me directly doesn't mean I don't have any concerns about the new ordinance. While I do expect Fayetteville to set higher standards than the other NWA cities. I also do worry that we might go too far. In a number of instances I don't think a lot of Fayetteville's particular ordinances are really all that bad. But it does create a negative image to a number of people. I'd just hate to see Fayetteville having a stereotype that it's not a 'friendly' place to do business or in some instances live. Even if it's not true just having that general perception among people can be damaging. I do want Fayetteville to have a higher 'quality of life' than other NWA cities. I just don't want to go too far to the extreme. In a lot of ways I think Fayetteville has helped push a lot of growth and development elsewhere in the area. I am an advocate of 'smart growth', I just don't want to push too much of the growth and development to the rest of NWA. In a number of ways Fayetteville is already slowly losing it's status as being the 'center' of NWA. We might also have to get used to the idea that Fayetteville may not even be the largest city in NWA in the near future. And I'm afraid some of these ordinances and policies are only going to exacerbate the trend.

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In a totally separate matter there is talk of moving Fayetteville out of the third congressional district to the fourth. This isn't making republicans happy because it takes Fayetteville and puts it in an area where Democrats are a lot stronger. But it's also got a lot of other people concerned because well people in Fayetteville don't like the idea of being lumped in with south Arkansas. The Fayetteville Chamber of Commerce has already voiced it's displeasure about the idea. Of course as I already stated if you're a local republican you're not happy about the idea. If you're a local democrat in some ways it does help because often times local democrats get blocked out because of the strong republican ties in the rest of NWA. But I think a lot of people even democrat ones aren't too happy about the idea of being lumped in an area like south Arkansas. Honestly I really don't know if it really has much effect on Fayetteville directly or if it could really 'alter it's image'. I'm curious to hear more about what everyone else has to say.

congressionaldistricts.jpg

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In a totally separate matter there is talk of moving Fayetteville out of the third congressional district to the fourth. This isn't making republicans happy because it takes Fayetteville and puts it in an area where Democrats are a lot stronger. But it's also got a lot of other people concerned because well people in Fayetteville don't like the idea of being lumped in with south Arkansas. The Fayetteville Chamber of Commerce has already voiced it's displeasure about the idea. Of course as I already stated if you're a local republican you're not happy about the idea. If you're a local democrat in some ways it does help because often times local democrats get blocked out because of the strong republican ties in the rest of NWA. But I think a lot of people even democrat ones aren't too happy about the idea of being lumped in an area like south Arkansas. Honestly I really don't know if it really has much effect on Fayetteville directly or if it could really 'alter it's image'. I'm curious to hear more about what everyone else has to say.

congressionaldistricts.jpg

It seems like they would have to go out of their way to put Fayetteville into the 4th district jumping over Ft. Smith. How would the physical connection be there?

Besides, most changes would shift District 2 further left, so I would think that the changes would even themselves out if District 4 moves rightwards.

I dunno. I think that NWA would be best served if it is not split up though.

Edited by akahogfan

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It seems like they would have to go out of their way to put Fayetteville into the 4th district jumping over Ft. Smith. How would the physical connection be there?

Besides, most changes would shift District 2 further left, so I would think that the changes would even themselves out if District 4 moves rightwards.

I dunno. I think that NWA would be best served if it is not split up though.

From what I can understand they'd continue that one section of District 4 around Logan County northward through Johnson County and then northwest through southern Madison County over to Washington County.

Someone needs to escort Sue Madison out the door and take her to a place where she isn't a danger to herself or others.

Well it's not too hard to see why she thinks it's a good idea. She's a democrat and would love the idea of taking a left leaning area out of District 3 and then add it to District 4 where it is also more left based as well. Despite Fayetteville being one of the more progressive and liberal cities in the state. It's often outvoted with the rest of NWA being very heavily republican.

Either way sounds like some more potential ideas will be coming out soon, maybe even later today. While everyone seems to loath the idea of being put in a district mainly composed of southern Arkansas. I'm still just wondering if it would or could benefit Fayetteville at all.

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I wanted to post this over here to discuss more about the new ordinance. Especially since some of my comments won't really have anything to do with the trail system. I admit this doesn't really involve me personally so my viewpoint may be different. If I did live near a creek I admit I would imagine I'd be somewhat miffed about the idea. But just speaking for me personally I think I could probably live with the ordinance. But in some instances it reminds me a bit of say if you lived in a historic neighborhood. You can't really go out and make changes to your house as you could in other places. But we've never really seen anything like this streamside ordinance before so I can certainly understand a lot of people not being happy with it. But just because this doesn't affect me directly doesn't mean I don't have any concerns about the new ordinance. While I do expect Fayetteville to set higher standards than the other NWA cities. I also do worry that we might go too far. In a number of instances I don't think a lot of Fayetteville's particular ordinances are really all that bad. But it does create a negative image to a number of people. I'd just hate to see Fayetteville having a stereotype that it's not a 'friendly' place to do business or in some instances live. Even if it's not true just having that general perception among people can be damaging. I do want Fayetteville to have a higher 'quality of life' than other NWA cities. I just don't want to go too far to the extreme. In a lot of ways I think Fayetteville has helped push a lot of growth and development elsewhere in the area. I am an advocate of 'smart growth', I just don't want to push too much of the growth and development to the rest of NWA. In a number of ways Fayetteville is already slowly losing it's status as being the 'center' of NWA. We might also have to get used to the idea that Fayetteville may not even be the largest city in NWA in the near future. And I'm afraid some of these ordinances and policies are only going to exacerbate the trend.

One of the things I forgot to mention about the new ordinance. To be honest I sorta thought there would be enough outcry that the city would back down a bit and either weaken the ordinance a bit or maybe try to make it more voluntary for now and put more emphasis on education and such. So I was a little surprised to see this get passed rather easily with only one dissenting vote.

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One of the things I forgot to mention about the new ordinance. To be honest I sorta thought there would be enough outcry that the city would back down a bit and either weaken the ordinance a bit or maybe try to make it more voluntary for now and put more emphasis on education and such. So I was a little surprised to see this get passed rather easily with only one dissenting vote.

There is some backlash to the ordinance forming- a group called Concerned Citizens for Fayetteville Property Rights has organized and is starting a petition for a referendum initiative to bring the ordinance before the entire city population for a vote. It will require 3,928 signatures and if successful would be on the Novemeber 2012 ballot. Evidently there are less than 30 days to get the signatures required so it will be difficult to do but possible.

If the petition drive is successful and a vote is scheduled for next year I am concerned that the city will be lax in their enforcement of the ordinance in order to discourage oppostition to it. By not enforcing it to the letter they will avoid situations that would illustrate how over-reaching the ordinance is. The ordinance as is will neighbors spying and snitching on each other. The grandfather clause will have the effect of preventing new owners of existing properties from cleaning up and improving their properties. An educational program would have been much better than this ordinance.

Here is a contact email address for Concerned Citizens for Fayetteville Property Rights

[email protected]

Edited by zman9810

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What's your issue with it? I haven't paid much attention as it doesn't directly affect me. Suppose I'm passively for it, there are lots of these sorts laws across the country. My attitude is "yeah that sounds pretty Fayetevilleish, yes fine".

Have also noted that some of the people claiming property rights violations are the same people who were strongly for our rather restrictive house rental & parking reg.

Is there anything specifically bad about it compared to what other cities have enacted?

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The short answer is that the ordinance is overreaching- it takes away a property owners right to use his property as they see fit. The 50 foot zone is much too large and can't be compared to utility easements or historic district restrictions. I think the ordinance is aimed more at preventing growth than curing a pollution problem. It does affect you even if you don't own property on a stream the same way the quality of public schools affects you even if you don't have children in school. It will drive up the cost of developement and home ownership in Fayetteville at a time when we need to work for the exact opposite. The city should be working on ways to bring jobs to town, increase the sales tax revenues, fill the large number of building vacancies, fix transportation problems, etc- not waster time on another layer of regulations. I'll post a better answers as time allows.

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I've been hearing talk for quite a while of moving some of the Post Office sorting facilities in Ft Smith over to Fayetteville. But now apparently they're moving some of the sorting facilities from Harrison over to Fayetteville. No idea if this means that Ft Smith is safe for now or if they might also get moved as well. I know Ft Smith has been really fighting the move.

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The general criticism of not being able to use their property as they see fit--that is too much of a stretch to me--Fayetteville's a city, and when you live next door to and on top of other people your rights become more limited, so as not to impinge on the rights of others. Large portions of the city code are concerned with restricting land use and reducing unpleasant or dangerous externalities...same thing with most any other medium-size or large city.

As for being overbroad and/or growth-limiting, that's certainly possible and something I'll look into. I have yet to even read the ordinance.

Edited by aerotive

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The general criticism of not being able to use their property as they see fit--that is too much of a stretch to me--Fayetteville's a city, and when you live next door to and on top of other people your rights become more limited, so as not to impinge on the rights of others. Large portions of the city code are concerned with restricting land use and reducing unpleasant or dangerous externalities...same thing with most any other medium-size or large city.

As for being overbroad and/or growth-limiting, that's certainly possible and something I'll look into. I have yet to even read the ordinance.

It seems like the ordinance could have been put in place so that it would only limit areas that are zoned as commercial or industrial locations. I don't think that you would see many, if any, problems with individual homeowners building a shed or making a garden. If the ordinance's goal is really to stop pollution, why bother with all the people who aren't going to be doing the polluting.

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Well it's not too hard to see why she thinks it's a good idea. She's a democrat and would love the idea of taking a left leaning area out of District 3 and then add it to District 4 where it is also more left based as well. Despite Fayetteville being one of the more progressive and liberal cities in the state. It's often outvoted with the rest of NWA being very heavily republican.

Either way sounds like some more potential ideas will be coming out soon, maybe even later today. While everyone seems to loath the idea of being put in a district mainly composed of southern Arkansas. I'm still just wondering if it would or could benefit Fayetteville at all.

I think her reasoning is faulty as to what would be best for Fayetteville in the long term. While the city may have political differences with the rest of NWA it is still an integral part of the metro. We continually hear talk about thinking regionally and this would cause a deep division with the rest of NWA that would go beyond politics. Fayetteville would end up having no voice in NWA and likely little influence in the 4th District. It is my impresssion that there is a sizable number of people in that part of Arkansas that already resent NWA regardless of political leanings.

IMO, the best course of action is to take away from the eastern edge of the 3rd District which would include the right leaning areas of Harrison and Russellville. Fort Smith is tied economically with NWA so it should naturally stay in the 3rd. This alignment would be helpful to Fayetteville by taking away some of the more extreme right leaning voters in the 3rd. What Democrats in NWA need to do is start organizing the Hispanic population in the area. They generally vote left and as they become more assimilated into the NWA community will be a political force.

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I think her reasoning is faulty as to what would be best for Fayetteville in the long term. While the city may have political differences with the rest of NWA it is still an integral part of the metro. We continually hear talk about thinking regionally and this would cause a deep division with the rest of NWA that would go beyond politics. Fayetteville would end up having no voice in NWA and likely little influence in the 4th District. It is my impresssion that there is a sizable number of people in that part of Arkansas that already resent NWA regardless of political leanings.

IMO, the best course of action is to take away from the eastern edge of the 3rd District which would include the right leaning areas of Harrison and Russellville. Fort Smith is tied economically with NWA so it should naturally stay in the 3rd. This alignment would be helpful to Fayetteville by taking away some of the more extreme right leaning voters in the 3rd. What Democrats in NWA need to do is start organizing the Hispanic population in the area. They generally vote left and as they become more assimilated into the NWA community will be a political force.

Well that's going to be a problem with all of this. In a lot of instances politicians are looking at what's best for their political party. Not necessarily what's best for that area. But the problem is someone's got to go. I think we know Fayetteville and Ft Smith doesn't want to go. Apparently Harrison doesn't want to leave either, nor does John Paul Hammerschmidt want Harrison taken out. And apparently Steve Womack doesn't want Russellville taken either. But someone's going to have to get taken out. The district needs to lose around 100,000 people.

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Here is the latest on the streamside ordinance. There is a movement for litigation, also.

The petitions are ready to sign! You can sign the petition at the Kay Law Firm located at 205 Rock Street in Fayetteville. Please ask for Betty or Steven. They will each have a petition that you can sign. In addition, if you would like to take a petition and collect signatures, please sign out a petition. Please remember that if you take a petition, you cannot separate the petition pages from the ordinance that is on the back pages. Also, when you return the petition, the pages that you collect signatures on must be removed and you must sign at the bottom swearing under oath that you saw each person sign the petition. This must be done in front of Betty the office paralegal so that she can notarize your signature. If you have questions regarding this process please email me or call me at 479.466.8219. Also, remember that each person that signs the petition must be a registered voter in Fayetteville. If you need voter registration cards, they are also at the law firm for you to take. We need at least 5000 signatures to insure that we can get this approved and certified by the city clerk.

PLEASE HELP GET SIGNATURES! This is a citizen driven initiative and without your involvement, we cannot succeed.

We do need a person to coordinate the canvasing efforts. Would anyone like to volunteer for that role?

In addition to the petition, we are also forming a group of people that are suing the city for damages that this loss of property rights has caused. Steven Kay with the Kay Law Firm has agreed to represent our group of citizens and there will be no up front costs to any of us. His fee will be contingent on winning the case for us.

Please contact the Kay Law Firm at 521.3343 to put your name on the list of people that he is representing.

This suit will give further recognition to our cause and the next time that the city considers an ordinance like this, they will consider just how important the views of property owners are.

By attacking this ordinance from both sides we have a far greater chance of reclaiming the property rights that our city has taken from us.

Concerned Citizens for Fayetteville Property Rights

[email protected]

Edited by zman9810

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Dunno if anyone remembers or was around when it was going on, but this is all very reminiscent of the battles and controversy over the 540 overlay district (think it was 540).

Edited by aerotive

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Well it took a little more than a year but the other Supercenter in Fayetteville is apparently going to be allowed to sell beer and wine. Initially the Supercenter near the Mall and the Neighborhood Market on Crossover were only allowed to sell. While there was more objections when this first came up apparently the only real objection this time came from Sue Madison. Walmart apparently has had a good track record with it's other locations so the ABC granted the other Supercenter permission as well.

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The plan to take Fayetteville out of the 3rd congressional district is making its way through the legislature. HB1836 made its way out of the House committee that had it and will now be before the entire House. Next stop would be the Senate and the committee that Sue Madison heads. With the Democratic majority in the legislature it is more and more likely that this plan will succeed even though the majority of Fayettevile residents seem to be against it.

This is the gerrymander attempt that would divide NWA in its congressional voice. Fayetteville's interests would be lumped in with that of an area of the state that it doesn't share economic and cultural interests with. Although I am independent, I vote Democratic most of the time and can not support this obvious partisan move by the Democratic Party. Two of the areas's legislators have not came out against HB1836 and should be contacted and urged to do so. Rep. Greg Leding and Sen. Sue Madison both have a chance to influence the vote on the bill and here are their email addresses for anyone that wants to let them know how you feel.

[email protected]

[email protected]

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The plan to take Fayetteville out of the 3rd congressional district is making its way through the legislature. HB1836 made its way out of the House committee that had it and will now be before the entire House. Next stop would be the Senate and the committee that Sue Madison heads. With the Democratic majority in the legislature it is more and more likely that this plan will succeed even though the majority of Fayettevile residents seem to be against it.

This is the gerrymander attempt that would divide NWA in its congressional voice. Fayetteville's interests would be lumped in with that of an area of the state that it doesn't share economic and cultural interests with. Although I am independent, I vote Democratic most of the time and can not support this obvious partisan move by the Democratic Party. Two of the areas's legislators have not came out against HB1836 and should be contacted and urged to do so. Rep. Greg Leding and Sen. Sue Madison both have a chance to influence the vote on the bill and here are their email addresses for anyone that wants to let them know how you feel.

[email protected]

[email protected]

Yeah I admit I'm a little surprised this still seems to be moving forward. I realize someone is going to have to move from the 4th district that doesn't want to. But it's still rather outlandish to do it this way. But it's the bipartisan aspect of this that bothers me the most. I think it's pretty obvious the politicians are only looking out for their own parties and aren't really looking at what's best for Fayetteville. The politicians trying to push this say they're doing this in respect to the wishes of Ft Smith and Harrison who said they didn't want to be moved out of the fourth district. Well Fayetteville residents didn't speak out initially because who knew a plan like this would be planned taking Fayetteville out. I think nobody expected parts of NWA to be taken out. But now that Fayetteville residents have spoken out the politicians for this plan seem to be ignoring it. The real reason for all of this is that Democrats want Fayetteville over other areas like Ft Smith and Harrison because it's more left leaning. Taking the other cities means adding more Republicans to a Democrat district and weakening the Democrat's strength. I admit I certainly lean more Democrat than Republican, but I still find the way this whole thing has gone down rather irritating. Maybe even if Fayetteville ends up in the third district it may not have any affect on how Fayetteville fits in with the rest of NWA, I don't know. I think maybe the bigger concern is will Fayetteville constituents be well represented when most of the third district consists of southern Arkansas. I keep wondering if this will end up bogging down as the process continues. But I'm also surprised it's managed to get this far this quickly. But it is my understanding that even though Sue Madison didn't come up with this plan that she has a big effect on it. And if she really wished it she could easily kill this thing. I think this boils down to whether she is going to actually do what the people of Fayetteville want or do what she thinks is best for her party. I don't know if I'd say I've heard a lot of Fayetteville residents for this, but I have heard some people that seem indifferent. But overall everything I'm hearing from everyone is that most people in Fayetteville are in opposition of this.

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