Fayetteville, Arkansas

[aerotive]

That looks as bad or worse than the one that switched Fayetteville.

[zman9810]

After reading the newspaper I see that Russellville is actually moved to the 4th and Pope county is split. I don't quite get the logic of taking Madison County while splitting Pope but whithout knowing the population numbers it's possible that it makes sense. It still looks awkward on paper but leaves the major cities of NWA in the 3rd, which is of most importance IMO.

[thewizard16]

That looks as bad or worse than the one that switched Fayetteville.

I don't think it's any worse- it makes a lot more sense (especially from the perspective of running an election and educating voters on where to vote/who they're voting for) to minimize the number of counties you split and avoid "grabbing" cities out of the middle of a county and adding them to another district. The Fayetteville plan was a gerrymander, or misguided at best. There are a few southern AR senators that support it because it minimizes how much their district is messed with, and there are a couple other legislators we've talked about that like it because they think it's the "best overall option" (which is a lazy way to say they don't want to look at other plans or compromise with other suggestions or stand to gain from it). This plan doesn't eat up as many counties (only two are split) and doesn't reach out and grab cities that don't need to be grabbed, which should make running an election much easier for the voters and the communities. My concerns with this plan are some of the 4th district counties shifted to the 1st (I don't think they'll like that and the legislator from Ashley county is threatening to try to kill it if it moves them to the 1st, which this current proposal would)... I don't see why that's necessary since the 4th is the one that needs to gain the most population to stay balanced. According to the Dem Gazette, a compromise might be proposed that would leave Ashley in the 4th, Madison in the 3rd, and balance that by putting Marion and Searcy in the 1st. I actually like the sound of that proposed plan better than pretty much anything else I've heard so far, and think it's probably more politically viable. It leaves more similar (in my opinion, of course) counties together, and just looks all around better. Hopefully it will be proposed and be more palatable overall to the Senate and House. It also would make the districts look less carved up, which once again helps from a logistic standpoint. You shouldn't make it harder for people to vote when redistricting, but that's what the Fayetteville finger and a couple other plans seemed almost dead set on doing.

I've edited the map to show what the potential compromise alternative would look like:

[thewizard16]

Another proposal that leaves Fayetteville alone and only splits two counties passed committee today and is headed to the full senate tomorrow. I don't have a picture of this map yet though, so that's all I know about it.

EDIT: Scratch that. Thank you to my friend at the Capitol!

Well, this one just passed the Senate, so it goes to the House tomorrow. I think the compromise Baker mentioned (that I made a mock-up map of) would be a better idea overall, but we'll see what the House does.

[Mith242]

I think this new plan looks better. It would be nice to have the entire metro in one district. So I wish we could keep Madison County. But I suppose something has to give. I imagine people in Madison County won't be happy about it. I'm also not sure what people in Russellville think. But I'm not sure if people are dead set to stay in the Third or it's more just Womack wanting to keep it in the Third. But even if something like this passes. Just imagine what's going to happen after the next census. I don't see the population growth slowing down that drastically. And for that matter I'm not sure some of the other parts of Arkansas are going to stop losing people. But I still think it makes more sense to keep metros together. It would be interesting to see someone trying to put in a 'finger' to pull North Little Rock or some other city in central Arkansas out. Of course that would 'hit home' to the politicians in Little Rock and would probably never come close to ever getting passed.

[thewizard16]

I think this new plan looks better. It would be nice to have the entire metro in one district. So I wish we could keep Madison County. But I suppose something has to give. I imagine people in Madison County won't be happy about it. I'm also not sure what people in Russellville think. But I'm not sure if people are dead set to stay in the Third or it's more just Womack wanting to keep it in the Third. But even if something like this passes. Just imagine what's going to happen after the next census. I don't see the population growth slowing down that drastically. And for that matter I'm not sure some of the other parts of Arkansas are going to stop losing people. But I still think it makes more sense to keep metros together. It would be interesting to see someone trying to put in a 'finger' to pull North Little Rock or some other city in central Arkansas out. Of course that would 'hit home' to the politicians in Little Rock and would probably never come close to ever getting passed.

Precisely. The logical thing to do is to keep immediate metro areas together, only splitting them when absolutely necessary (which it isn't even close to necessary at these population levels for the districts yet). It doesn't make any more sense to split the primary NWA metro cities up any more than it does to split Little Rock and North Little Rock, especially when the redistricting can be relatively easily done without messing with either of the main metros in the state. The only reason redistricting has been such a mess is because of the political motivations at play- no one wants to change districts, but if they've got to be changed, they want to do it in a way that won't affect their immediate constituents and can preferably improve their odds at reelection, which is what led to a lot of the foolish proposed plans. There were multiple sensible plans that split few (if any) counties and balances things out, but there was always a rep from a county being switched (and honestly, relatively small counties that I don't feel should have the power to take down a whole proposal single handedly) that made a lot of noise against it and get their allies riled up against it. At any rate, I just hope something mostly sensible passes, whether it be this or the compromised version of this (which I like the sound of better), or some similar proposal.

[zman9810]

Looks like Fayetteville will be staying in the 3rd District. The Senate voted for a compromise bill and it was approved by the the House committee that handles the process. The full House still has to approve it and that may have happened already or could tomorrow. Sebastian, Newton and Crawford counties will all be split up so not everyone is going to be happy. Sue Madison sponsored the Senate version of the bill so she finally did the right thing- good for her. It was a refreshingly bi-partisan vote in the Senate- equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans voted against the bill.

[thewizard16]

Looks like Fayetteville will be staying in the 3rd District. The Senate voted for a compromise bill and it was approved by the the House committee that handles the process. The full House still has to approve it and that may have happened already or could tomorrow. Sebastian, Newton and Crawford counties will all be split up so not everyone is going to be happy. Sue Madison sponsored the Senate version of the bill so she finally did the right thing- good for her. It was a refreshingly bi-partisan vote in the Senate- equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans voted against the bill.

I think this is a worse option than the other potential compromise which would have only split one county and left Madison in the 3rd as well, but whatever. I'm just glad to see the single city finger idea killed, even if what they're doing now is essentially a three county finger.

[Mith242]

I certainly wouldn't call this a great plan but I'd call it acceptable. It seems to me what it's basically boiling down to, is the congressmen picking through areas of lesser population to split off of District 3. At this point it seems pretty clear absolutely no one really wants to leave District 3. So eventually someone is going to end up disappointed. I think by picking areas without larger cities it makes it a little easier for there to be not as much outcry. Or maybe I should phrase it as outcry that's not going to get as much notice compared to say a city the size of Fayetteville, Ft Smith, Russellville and so on. Of course looking at it from an NWA perspective, it would be great to simply lop off the eastern side of District 3 and keep the NWA and FT Smith metros all together. But I think some of them feel the need to try to at least take some part of NWA, because this has been where all the rapid growth is. In some sort of hopes that in ten years they won't have to make such a drastic move. But it is a bit frustrating to see sections of the NWA and Ft Smith metro's taken off when overall Little Rock's metro seems to be pretty intact despite it's relative size.

[Mith242]

Something I forgot to mention last week. USA Today listed the Fayetteville Public Library as one of the top ten places in the country to take a library tour. Still great to see our library getting attention nationally.

http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/10great/story/2011/04/10-great-places-to-take-a-library-tour/45893838/1?csp=usat.me

[zman9810]

On a map the plan looks worse than what it is if you consider the population distribution. They took a lot of land area to get a small number of people and it is mostly rural areas even around Fort Smith. It keeps NWA's urbanized areas unified which is most inmportant in the long run. It does seem like it would have been easier to just take the eastern section of the 3rd District including Pope County but I guess that is what compromise is about.

One good thing that has came out of this for me is that I've always felt somewhat removed from state government- but not now. The legislative sessions were a bunch of people that I didn't know down in Little Rock that I didn't pay a lot of attention to. Unless they were passing nonsense like the creationism bill of years ago or other similar laws they seemed rather harmless. Now, I will pay closer attention to what they do and who I vote into office to represent me.

[Mith242]

On a map the plan looks worse than what it is if you consider the population distribution. They took a lot of land area to get a small number of people and it is mostly rural areas even around Fort Smith. It keeps NWA's urbanized areas unified which is most important in the long run. It does seem like it would have been easier to just take the eastern section of the 3rd District including Pope County but I guess that is what compromise is about.

One good thing that has came out of this for me is that I've always felt somewhat removed from state government- but not now. The legislative sessions were a bunch of people that I didn't know down in Little Rock that I didn't pay a lot of attention to. Unless they were passing nonsense like the creationism bill of years ago or other similar laws they seemed rather harmless. Now, I will pay closer attention to what they do and who I vote into office to represent me.

You do raise an interesting point. I imagine a number of people will pay a little more attention now. Haven't officially heard if the new map passed or not. I'm just glad they didn't come up with another 'Fayetteville finger' at the last moment to hurry up and get passed. The bad thing about any plan coming out this late is that's there's not much chance for people to argue against it.

[zman9810]

The owners of the East Square Plaza are offering to sell part of the building to the City of Fayetteville. It would be $4.5 million for almost 73,000 sq. ft. of prime office space right in the heart of town. This is the former Bank of America/1st National Bank that takes up the east side of the Square. The building is a total of 106,000 sq. ft. with condos and business space taking the other square footage. The price comes out to an amazing $62 per sq. ft more or less- a steal for this type of property in this location.

This sounds like a great deal but does the City really need the property? There hasn't been any public discussion of a dire shortage of space for city employees. It wasn't long ago that a lot of money was spent to buy and renovate the old Cox building for planning space. The police department has gained space with the new courts building's construction. If the City was flush with cash and a clear need for a large amount of space was determined it might be worth looking into but those factors aren't there. Sharing space in the building with residences and businesses could lead to unforseen problems and costs. There just isn't a clear need for for the purchase and there are too many reasons not to do it. That $4.5 million could do a lot in other areas that have a clear need for the money.

[wmr]

The owners of the East Square Plaza are offering to sell part of the building to the City of Fayetteville. It would be $4.5 million for almost 73,000 sq. ft. of prime office space right in the heart of town. This is the former Bank of America/1st National Bank that takes up the east side of the Square. The building is a total of 106,000 sq. ft. with condos and business space taking the other square footage. The price comes out to an amazing $62 per sq. ft more or less- a steal for this type of property in this location.

This sounds like a great deal but does the City really need the property? There hasn't been any public discussion of a dire shortage of space for city employees. It wasn't long ago that a lot of money was spent to buy and renovate the old Cox building for planning space. The police department has gained space with the new courts building's construction. If the City was flush with cash and a clear need for a large amount of space was determined it might be worth looking into but those factors aren't there. Sharing space in the building with residences and businesses could lead to unforseen problems and costs. There just isn't a clear need for for the purchase and there are too many reasons not to do it. That $4.5 million could do a lot in other areas that have a clear need for the money.

The city should buy it, use the office space as needed, and use the street frontage to incubate new funky businesses and artistic ventures by providing lower rent for start ups.

Thats if money wasn't a big deal. It feeds into the arts initiatives as well as the local business community. Make it a stringent application process for new businesses, give them a two year lease and let them get established. Over time, they can get good rents out of the storefronts and it can become a revenue stream for the city...

Those storefronts need to open onto to the Square and interact with everything going on out there.

[Mith242]

I think I was just beginning to hear a little about this before I went on vacation. Overall I think the problem is more the timing of it. I think it would be a good thing for the city to do. But of course the city's funding is a lot more limited now than a couple of years ago. So I can see both sides to this. It's a nice idea, but I wouldn't want to see the city to put itself into financial difficulties just to purchase the property either.

[zman9810]

I don't know if it is a good idea for the City to get into commercial real estate managment- being a landlord for businesses could cause all sorts of headaches and expenses. Competing with the businesses that do management might create an artifical price levels that could hurt the whole real esate market.

[zman9810]

The city has decided to study the possibility of buying part of the East Square Plaza building and will take it up again in August. The idea would be to move employees out of the current city hall and other buildings to East Square. The city hall building and the old Cox building could then be sold. Right now there is no money for a purchase so a study is all that can be done. A possible millage increase to raise the money could be considered but would have limited support.

The idea of selling the current city hall, etc sounds good but with the real estate market the way it is the city might be holding on to them for a long time and paying for their maintenance all along. That would effectedly raise the cost of buying the East Square by that same amount. As one council member pointed out there will also be the cost to redo the building to fit the city's needs- even if it is now office space it would still have to been outfitted for the specific uses of the city.

[aerotive]

I don't like the idea of city hall being in a shared building--it sounds second rate.

If they can get a good deal on the whole building, and offset a substantial part of the cost by selling the old one, that'd be more reasonable.

Edited May 12, 2011 by aerotive

[Mith242]

I don't like the idea of city hall being in a shared building--it sounds second rate.

If they can get a good deal on the whole building, and offset a substantial part of the cost by selling the old one, that'd be more reasonable.

From what I've heard although this third floor isn't part of the deal it's also open for possible bids. Some have mentioned how old the current building uses as a possible reason why the city should consider moving offices. But it also sounds like the city would have to spend money to make the new space totally ready to be used by city offices. It might be more of a question of is the city going to have to seriously consider moving in the near future. What would be cheaper renovating the current older building or picking up and moving? I know the City Administration Bldg is quite a bit older. But to be honest I'm really not sure in what type of shape it's in. Are there some potential issues in the near future for the City Administration Bldg, or is the owner of One East Center just trying to make his space sound more appealing to the city and trying to get a deal done?

[mzweig]

From what I've heard although this third floor isn't part of the deal it's also open for possible bids. Some have mentioned how old the current building uses as a possible reason why the city should consider moving offices. But it also sounds like the city would have to spend money to make the new space totally ready to be used by city offices. It might be more of a question of is the city going to have to seriously consider moving in the near future. What would be cheaper renovating the current older building or picking up and moving? I know the City Administration Bldg is quite a bit older. But to be honest I'm really not sure in what type of shape it's in. Are there some potential issues in the near future for the City Administration Bldg, or is the owner of One East Center just trying to make his space sound more appealing to the city and trying to get a deal done?

I tried leasing about 6000 square feet on the main floor for one of my businesses--ZweigWhite (where the vault is) about two months ago and struck out. The owners weren't able to be close to competitive for office space in this market.

We have instead leased a big chunk of the old FDC building on Trenton near Wilson Park from Tim Cooper. We will be getting new parking lots, improved landscaping, a new entrance, and a number of windows cut through the brick in the back of the building, as well as some interior mods to meet our needs.

Mark

[zman9810]

I tried leasing about 6000 square feet on the main floor for one of my businesses--ZweigWhite (where the vault is) about two months ago and struck out. The owners weren't able to be close to competitive for office space in this market.

We have instead leased a big chunk of the old FDC building on Trenton near Wilson Park from Tim Cooper. We will be getting new parking lots, improved landscaping, a new entrance, and a number of windows cut through the brick in the back of the building, as well as some interior mods to meet our needs.

Mark

I know Trenton is that street that goes between N. College and Wilson Park but I can't think of which building you are talking about- is it the building right there by Wilson Park on the SE corner? East Plaza seems to be caught up in the same sad circumstances that many others have found themselves in- a very nice property that they can't get what it should be worth.

Good to see you are still keeping up with UP, Mark.

[Mith242]

Thanks for the info.

[mzweig]

I know Trenton is that street that goes between N. College and Wilson Park but I can't think of which building you are talking about- is it the building right there by Wilson Park on the SE corner? East Plaza seems to be caught up in the same sad circumstances that many others have found themselves in- a very nice property that they can't get what it should be worth.

Good to see you are still keeping up with UP, Mark.

I rely on you all for the inside scoop on what's going on! The building is on North side of Trenton between College and the Park. It is about 13-14k sq feet in total. Designed by same architect who designed old library (Fulbright Building)--Warren Seagraves-- just not as neat!

One problem with East Plaza--lots and lots of wasted space. Common areas are so large it kills your lease rate. Also, no parking. I have needs for a lot of spaces. Employees don't like having to pay to park.

[Mith242]

I rely on you all for the inside scoop on what's going on! The building is on North side of Trenton between College and the Park. It is about 13-14k sq feet in total. Designed by same architect who designed old library (Fulbright Building)--Warren Seagraves-- just not as neat!

One problem with East Plaza--lots and lots of wasted space. Common areas are so large it kills your lease rate. Also, no parking. I have needs for a lot of spaces. Employees don't like having to pay to park.

Interesting, I had no idea that building was designed by Warren Seagraves as well.

[Mith242]

Apparently the UARK Theater sign is or has been taken down down on Dickson. Sounds like it wasn't in the greatest of shape and was sagging. They're hoping to try to restore it some and eventually get it reinstalled.