Fayetteville, Arkansas

[wmr]

Call it a very early, vague report: the broker who sold me my new house recently sold two large lots near the Coop/Mill in the Mill District. He says that the lot adjacent to Greenhouse Grille is expected to be a 2-3 story structure with retail or offices on the lower level, topped with apartments. The larger, arguably better located lot right on the bike trail is expected to be somewhat similar to what Jacobs & Newell is putting in across the street, albeit it will be built by a different developer (that's disappointing). It will likely be a dense 2-3 story, possibily 4 story mixed purpose structure(s). The buyers are still very early in the development process so I have no hard details yet on what it will look like, but my understanding is they are already working with the city planning commision.  

This just what that area needs.  I'm expecting the Mill District to become its own dense area in the next couple of years. Once there is more residential density, some of the other underutilized lots in the area will go up for sale.

 

The strip of grass along S. School in front of the Mill Condos is just begging for someone to build retail on.  There is room for parking behind a row of buildings.  That whole lot is very under-used, IMO.  Maybe more housing in the immediate area will open the eyes of a commercial developer.  

[thewizard16]

Downtown Little Rock is a very different story than downtown Fayetteville though.  I wasn't in NWA when Dickson Street was "bad", but I can't imagine it comparing to downtown Little Rock at night.  .5 miles from the Peabody (now Marriott?) will take A LOT of work before it compares to what's around the WAC.

 

Yes, it does need a lot more work, but it's coming along nicely. Little Rock's 5 mile number is of course way higher than those others, but I agree with wmr's sentiment that it's not the important number. The important numbers are the .5 and 1 mile. I would say that although the development density in downtown Fayetteville does not appear greater than Little Rock (it obviously isn't), the residential density is far, far higher. Little Rock has a glut of commercial space downtown but the 1 mile radius has very little residential space and they've been slowly adding to it over the last 10 years. I think they've hit a cusp of sorts on development momentum and I think once you see the massive projects on Main St. completed in a couple years the downtown will have a totally different feel (and a lot more residents), but Fayetteville is unique among those three in that it has been working on that corridor a lot longer and it paid off in a big way. I don't know of any city the size of Fayetteville that has the kind of feel Dickson/WAC area does, and I would love it if Little Rock could even compare to Dickson in the next few years. 

Edited December 21, 2013 by thewizard16

[Mith242]

Here's a site that I found interesting, which allows you to find demographic information in a radius from any point on a map.  http://mcdc.missouri.edu/websas/caps10c.html

 

I looked at it to see how density is in downtown Fayetteville compared to other cities.  I chose Little Rock, because they are investing lots of energy into building a downtown community, and Oxford, MS, because its another SEC college town that life seems to center around its downtown square.

 

Fayetteville (WAC)

 

.5 mile - 3,027

1 mile - 14,025 (up from 13,161 in 2000)

3 miles- 50,835

 

Little Rock (Peabody)

 

.5 mile - 1,496 (up from 707 in 2000)

1 mile - 4,812

3 mile - I didn't bother

 

Oxford, MS (Historic Courthouse)

 

.5 mile - 1,847

1 mile - 6,592

3 mile - 24,002

 

At the 1 mile radius, Fayetteville has an impressive number of people living already.  As a few of these larger projects open up, I see downtown Fayetteville supporting more "neighborhood" retail rather quickly.  The numbers are already there.  At .5 mile radius, still a good number.  That number is already much higher due to the Sterling project and it will likely double over the next few years. 

 

Little Rock has made great strides, more than doubling the number of people living within .5 miles of the Peabody in a decade, but I found it interesting that more people live within .5 mile of the Oxford square than do the Peabody in downtown Little Rock.

 

 

Thanks for indulging my stat geek side.

Thanks for the stats.  It appeals to my geeky side as well.  

Call it a very early, vague report: the broker who sold me my new house recently sold two large lots near the Coop/Mill in the Mill District. He says that the lot adjacent to Greenhouse Grille is expected to be a 2-3 story structure with retail or offices on the lower level, topped with apartments. The larger, arguably better located lot right on the bike trail is expected to be somewhat similar to what Jacobs & Newell is putting in across the street, albeit it will be built by a different developer (that's disappointing). It will likely be a dense 2-3 story, possibily 4 story mixed purpose structure(s). The buyers are still very early in the development process so I have no hard details yet on what it will look like, but my understanding is they are already working with the city planning commision.  The link below is to what Jacobs + Newell is currently building in the Mill District:

 

http://www.jacobsnewellcompany.com/in-progress/

 

Some older homes recently sold on the north side of MLK, adjacent to J+N's Church St project.  The rumor is the buyer plans to demo the houses and then sit on the lots; either he'll flip them or develop them later for in-fill housing.

Thanks for the info.    Been waiting to see some sort of development happen in that area for a while now.

This just what that area needs.  I'm expecting the Mill District to become its own dense area in the next couple of years. Once there is more residential density, some of the other underutilized lots in the area will go up for sale.

 

The strip of grass along S. School in front of the Mill Condos is just begging for someone to build retail on.  There is room for parking behind a row of buildings.  That whole lot is very under-used, IMO.  Maybe more housing in the immediate area will open the eyes of a commercial developer.  

Yeah the Mill District has been discussed on the forum for years now.  I think a lot of us see the potential there.  As Dickson St has developed to where it is now, I think it's forced a lot of smaller businesses and restaurants out of that area.  Would really like to see the Mill District become an alternative for them.

[CentralArkansas]

Downtown Little Rock is a very different story than downtown Fayetteville though.  I wasn't in NWA when Dickson Street was "bad", but I can't imagine it comparing to downtown Little Rock at night.  .5 miles from the Peabody (now Marriott?) will take A LOT of work before it compares to what's around the WAC.

 

 

 

 

I'll do my best not to be rude -- but this is the attitude that makes people from the central part of the state roll their eyes at NWA-ites. [And don't mistake my username for a bitter person from Little Rock... I made the choice to relocate to Fayetteville several years ago and love it]

 

Within half a mile of the Marriott in LR: 

 

- six hotels (including the nicest hotel in the region)

- three performing arts centers/theaters (including one that can host the much larger traveling Broadway shows such as Wicked that the WAC can't host)

- River Market Pavilion (which hosts a variety of outdoor events including the state's largest farmer's market)

- An outdoor amphitheater that hosts concerts for up to 8,000 people

- more fine dining than is available than in the entire city of Fayetteville

- at least 15+ other restaurants (including some great options such as Bosco's, Copper Grill, etc)

- more bars/clubs than you need in a .5 mile radius

- The Clinton Library -- which beyond just the exhibits hosts all kinds of speakers from across the country/world

- The main branch of the Little Rock library system

- Multiple large white collar/tech companies (Stephens, Acxiom, Crews, etc)

- At least two other museums (Discovery, Historic Arkansas)

 

And that doesn't account for the fact that most of that radius includes the river, nor does it include any of the momentum that is going on Main Street and I'm sure other things that didn't come to top of mind. Downtown Little Rock at night? Get out and walk around it sometime....it'll surprise you. I know the "scared of their shadow" folks up here in their bubble see Little Rock as some kind of failed state where your women get raped and the men get shot....it's not. It has its crime issues -- just as every mid-size city or larger in the south does -- but unless you are looking for trouble, odds are you won't find it. 

[wmr]

I agree, I don't think downtown LR is that bad.  The most important thing in the stats I posted is that the residential number in the immediate vicinity of the Peabody doubled in 10 years.  

 

Its a different story altogether than Fayetteville.  LR has a large CBD compared to Fayetteville.  Downtown Fayetteville never fully lost its residential element the way downtown LR did in the 70s and 80s.

[jb1087]

I'll do my best not to be rude -- but this is the attitude that makes people from the central part of the state roll their eyes at NWA-ites. [And don't mistake my username for a bitter person from Little Rock... I made the choice to relocate to Fayetteville several years ago and love it]

 

Within half a mile of the Marriott in LR: 

 

- six hotels (including the nicest hotel in the region)

- three performing arts centers/theaters (including one that can host the much larger traveling Broadway shows such as Wicked that the WAC can't host)

- River Market Pavilion (which hosts a variety of outdoor events including the state's largest farmer's market)

- An outdoor amphitheater that hosts concerts for up to 8,000 people

- more fine dining than is available than in the entire city of Fayetteville

- at least 15+ other restaurants (including some great options such as Bosco's, Copper Grill, etc)

- more bars/clubs than you need in a .5 mile radius

- The Clinton Library -- which beyond just the exhibits hosts all kinds of speakers from across the country/world

- The main branch of the Little Rock library system

- Multiple large white collar/tech companies (Stephens, Acxiom, Crews, etc)

- At least two other museums (Discovery, Historic Arkansas)

 

And that doesn't account for the fact that most of that radius includes the river, nor does it include any of the momentum that is going on Main Street and I'm sure other things that didn't come to top of mind. Downtown Little Rock at night? Get out and walk around it sometime....it'll surprise you. I know the "scared of their shadow" folks up here in their bubble see Little Rock as some kind of failed state where your women get raped and the men get shot....it's not. It has its crime issues -- just as every mid-size city or larger in the south does -- but unless you are looking for trouble, odds are you won't find it. 

 

Lived in LR myself for about 20 years, only been here about 5.  So hardly an NWA-ite. 

[zman9810]

Comparing NWA and Little Rock is comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different types of metros- LR has a distinct metro center while NWA is a series of smallish cities in a long corridor. Singling out Fayetteville for comparison makes even less sense. I think most people in NWA and Central Arkansas see the need for the two largest urban centers in the state to work together and not try to compete. The competition is the rural faction in state government that still has too much power for the state's overall well-being.

[jb1087]

Comparing NWA and Little Rock is comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different types of metros- LR has a distinct metro center while NWA is a series of smallish cities in a long corridor. Singling out Fayetteville for comparison makes even less sense. I think most people in NWA and Central Arkansas see the need for the two largest urban centers in the state to work together and not try to compete. The competition is the rural faction in state government that still has too much power for the state's overall well-being.

That's a good point as well.  I think many residents of the smaller surrounding towns of LR see that as the destination.  That role is constantly in contention in NWA, maybe because there isn't any clear winner population-wise.  If you're a transplant to NWA, whether from LR or another city in the US, there's no reason that Fayetteville or any other city should have anything over Rogers or Bentonville or wherever you live.  Not to knock Fayetteville, but that's how many think. 

[strmchsr77]

Anyone know what the plans are for these new good sized rezonings around Fayetteville?  I am really interested in the old Park West development on Hwy 112 across from the Drive in.  Here is a link from the Times article:

 

http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2014/jan/08/fayetteville-council-rezones-properties/?news-arkansas-nwa-fayetteville

[comreguy]

Anyone know what the plans are for these new good sized rezonings around Fayetteville?  I am really interested in the old Park West development on Hwy 112 across from the Drive in.  Here is a link from the Times article:

 

http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2014/jan/08/fayetteville-council-rezones-properties/?news-arkansas-nwa-fayetteville

Hearing that Fellowship Church has land under control in that area, but not sure if it is Park West.

[strmchsr77]

Thanks Comreguy, I knew you would know something!

[zman9810]

Seems like a lot of the recent rezonings in Fayetteville are simply to make the properties more marketable and not for specific development plans.

[comreguy]

Seems like a lot of the recent rezonings in Fayetteville are simply to make the properties more marketable and not for specific development plans.

Very much within the property owner's rights and probably a good strategy in Fayetteville, given how emotional people get over a project and not necessarily a zoning. More likely to strike it down if they have an agenda.

[zman9810]

I agree it is a good strategy. It seems any time a large project is proposed in Fayetteville there is loud opposition to it and then it is only a matter of time until there are new City regulations restricting said project. Some day there will be so much regulation that development will grind to a complete halt or close to it.

[strmchsr77]

This has been rumored for a while but they are possibly getting closer to making it happen...

 

Whole Foods looking into Fayetteville Market along North College.

 

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2014/01/23/whole-foods-eyes-first-store-in-fayetteville-market/

[Mith242]

This has been rumored for a while but they are possibly getting closer to making it happen...

 

Whole Foods looking into Fayetteville Market along North College.

 

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2014/01/23/whole-foods-eyes-first-store-in-fayetteville-market/

Yeah I keep hearing rumors about it.  Figure they'll eventually pull the trigger.  Really curious to see what Ozark Natural Foods will do.  

[TRB]

They will close. The comment about that's why communism didn't work made me spit my tea.

 

My Mom has is so good where she lives in Memphis, She's got a huge new Whole Foods and a Fresh Market less than a mile from her driveway.

Edited January 24, 2014 by TRB

[zman9810]

The Whole Foods story is exciting news! I've wondered what would happen with that lot and was concerned that it would end up a cheap used car lot. The City needs to work with the developers to ensure this project happens if at all possible. The idea of WF anchoring a shopping center here is redevelopment and infill at its best. The North College/ Milsap intersection has needed to be improved for decades and this would be the perfect opportunity to take care of that. I would say that such a project is more important to the well being of the city than Mission/Old Wire project or any number of other street projects planned. I imagine a case could be made to the state highway dept. that it is needed also and it could be moved up the list in it's priorities.

[JamesE]

They will close. The comment about that's why communism didn't work made me spit my tea.

 

My Mom has is so good where she lives in Memphis, She's got a huge new Whole Foods and a Fresh Market less than a mile from her driveway.

 

ONF appears to be very poorly managed.  However, it's a very nice building at a good location - if we get a WF and ONF closes, hopefully Harps or someone takes over the ONF location.

[wmr]

If they own their building, I could see a scenario where ONF survives.  They would need to overhaul their entire operation, become efficient, and drop their prices.  They are not a for-profit company, or at least that is what they claim.  

 

I don't know if the people currently running the co-op are capable of keeping it afloat.  I think it could be done if the right people were in charge.  In addition to finding their business drop off, they will encounter having most of their employees wishing to work for WF with higher pay, better benefits, etc.  

[JamesE]

I read a passing burb on Fayetteville Flyer that Specialized Real Estate Group is working on a new project on MLK.  Does anyone know any details? 

[strmchsr77]

James,

I believe that it is the area where the Sud's carwash is and includes some of the old warehouse space behind it.  Or just east of University House complex (used to be called the Domain).  I have not heard any of the specifics on it yet.

[JamesE]

James,

I believe that it is the area where the Sud's carwash is and includes some of the old warehouse space behind it.  Or just east of University House complex (used to be called the Domain).  I have not heard any of the specifics on it yet.

Thanks Strmchsr77!

Edited January 29, 2014 by JamesE

[wmr]

Yes, this project is just across the street east of the Domain apartment buildings.  I  am not sure if the Suds carwash land is a part or not, but the warehouses/storage buildings are.  What a total transformation that area will have undergone in just 3 years when this is done.  

[Mith242]

If they own their building, I could see a scenario where ONF survives.  They would need to overhaul their entire operation, become efficient, and drop their prices.  They are not a for-profit company, or at least that is what they claim.  

 

I don't know if the people currently running the co-op are capable of keeping it afloat.  I think it could be done if the right people were in charge.  In addition to finding their business drop off, they will encounter having most of their employees wishing to work for WF with higher pay, better benefits, etc.  

What's really telling in all of this, is that in Fayetteville there's certainly a segment of the population that are against chains and in favor of locally owned businesses.  Yet you hardly hear anyone supporting ONF.  And one of the few times that most people in Fayetteville seemed rather excited about a 'chain' coming to town.