Fayetteville, Arkansas

[strmchsr77]

I really don't mind them either.  Of course I am all for building up instead of out.  Fayetteville actually has a pretty decent skyline and I'd say second best in the state..  I hope the trend in taller denser buildings continues. I've always heard the same thing about Old Main having to be the tallest building in the city but that just means elevation wise I guess.  As there are multiple buildings that are much taller if you put them next to each other.  I wonder if that includes the buildings on top of Mt. Sequoyah because I know they set up much higher...  

[wmr]

I like dense development on the hillside.  I just think the shapes are ugly, repetitive and that the pastel colors on siding are crappy-looking.  It just looks cheap to me.  So cheap-looking, combined with prominence = I hate it.  The initial renderings look more "solid" and appear to use more stucco or other masonry than the end result.  

Edited April 11, 2014 by wmr

[Mith242]

That is indeed the Vue south of the hs/university- up on the hill. Seems it being visible above the horizon bothers some people- only Old Main is supposed to be seen from a distance in Fayetteville. I like it- it provides a good balance with the university buildings across the valley. Its a reminder that we are in a growing city in a growing metro and not out in the country.

You know until the other day I'd never gotten a great look at The Vue.  I guess while I'm driving I tend to focus on the road and never really got a good look at them.  I was out on the trail system near the university and finally got a bit of look at them from afar.  Then earlier today I got a better look as I was checking out the Tsa-La-Gi Trail.  In fact since I was that close I went ahead and cycled up to them.  By the way that's quite a steep grade there and I can see now why they got the name.  There are some nice views from up there.  The design of them might not be to everyone's liking although I guess it didn't bother me as much.  I can't say it's my favorite design but I guess I didn't hate them either.  

[zman9810]

Looks like another furniture store is moving into the old Hank's on Joyce Blvd. I'm glad to see something happening there- seems its been vacant for a long time now.

[aerotive]

Good to hear, empty for a long time and in use for quite a short time. 

 

Only other big, prominent empty space I can think of in Fayetteville is the former Hastings in Fiesta Square.

[JamesE]

It looks like the former Mountain Inn site is up for sale.. Hopefully this will wind up being something interesting.  Given the asking price, I imagine it would need to be at least five-six stories to justify the asking price.

[TRB]

The national branded Marriot that was part of the development that never happened was one of the two things I so wished that would have happened. The Condo's doomed it as that market collapsed. I see where apts are the rage in the big developments in larger cities and not condos where building has resumed. I saw this rendering on a Salt Lake City forum and thought of the two facades that's left at this property

 

 

[wmr]

It looks like the former Mountain Inn site is up for sale.. Hopefully this will wind up being something interesting.  Given the asking price, I imagine it would need to be at least five-six stories to justify the asking price.

 

I'd hope for at least ten stories there.  Given the height restrictions that exist all over downtown, and especially on lots next to single-family lots, there aren't many opportunities for good ole tall buildings in this town.  10 stories would be downright quaint in most real cities.  

The national branded Marriot that was part of the development that never happened was one of the two things I so wished that would have happened. The Condo's doomed it as that market collapsed. I see where apts are the rage in the big developments in larger cities and not condos where building has resumed. I saw this rendering on a Salt Lake City forum and thought of the two facades that's left at this property

 

I really like that picture.  The building could do with more detail, but all in all, I like the scale and materials.  Something like that would be great for that site.

[TRB]

I posted that as an idea to blend the old with the new, I agree it needs more detail like what the Renaissance proposal had , but please now modern crap downtown, it has enough . Thing about that location is great views can be achieved in each direction after you get past the 4 story threshold. So wit the right design every window has a view. Remember the big hole was to be parking. That Salt Lake page on skyscrapercity.com has lots of projects  that seem to be the scale we are seeing and I like lots of them. And boy do Mormons build a church right.

[zman9810]

It looks like the former Mountain Inn site is up for sale.. Hopefully this will wind up being something interesting.  Given the asking price, I imagine it would need to be at least five-six stories to justify the asking price.

Given that asking price I imagine the lot will sit empty for a long time to come. I can't imagine who would take a chance on it at that price.

 

Actually- since it seems like the university hotel project has been put on hold maybe some chain will see an opportunity to put in a nice hotel downtown. This would still be a great site for one.

Edited April 17, 2014 by zman9810

[IronScott]

Casey's at 49 and Wedington opened today. Perfect location. I bet it will do extremely well.

[wmr]

Casey's at 49 and Wedington opened today. Perfect location. I bet it will do extremely well.

So weird.  

[IronScott]

So weird.  

No doubt. Figured I might as well start using it.

[zman9810]

I've been thinking about this post for a while with all the push to redo North College Avenue in town. I think its important to consider that N. College is actually Hwy 71B and the primary north/ south route through Fayetteville and also the path that most residents on the north and south ends of town use to access downtown Fayetteville. It is not a neighborhood street that only the downtown or slightly north of downtown residents use. At times it seems there is an insular or even egocentric view of some city leaders and residents that this vital connection to downtown is not needed- that barriers need to be erected to keep those who don't live downtown out. If you aren't willing to walk or ride a bicycle you are not welcome downtown. The idea of having neighborhood amenities such as retail stores located in nodes around the city is great but the center of town with it's government offices, regional entertainment attractions and its importance to the identity of Fayetteville needs to be as accessible as possible to anyone.

 

Developments such as the at-grade trail crossing on Hwy 71B South and calls for more pedestrian crossing of N. College need to be balanced with the need to keep downtown as accessible as possible- we want to encourage visitors and residents to visit and travel through the city - not push them away because they don't live in our neighborhood.

[nickbenso]

I dont think anyone is wanting to cut downtown off from the rest of the city. I think many are pushing to keep College Ave. from becoming an expressway through the city. It needs to be treated as a city street which means reduced speeds and more pedestrian crossing/access. It has been proven that businesses along streets with slower speed limits have more customers/business. If people are needing to pass through town to get somewhere else that is what I49 is for. Then you find a way to draw people off the interstate into the city, not have them running through the middle of it to begin with.

[TRB]

I've been thinking about this post for a while with all the push to redo North College Avenue in town. I think its important to consider that N. College is actually Hwy 71B and the primary north/ south route through Fayetteville and also the path that most residents on the north and south ends of town use to access downtown Fayetteville. It is not a neighborhood street that only the downtown or slightly north of downtown residents use. At times it seems there is an insular or even egocentric view of some city leaders and residents that this vital connection to downtown is not needed- that barriers need to be erected to keep those who don't live downtown out. If you aren't willing to walk or ride a bicycle you are not welcome downtown. The idea of having neighborhood amenities such as retail stores located in nodes around the city is great but the center of town with it's government offices, regional entertainment attractions and its importance to the identity of Fayetteville needs to be as accessible as possible to anyone.

Developments such as the at-grade trail crossing on Hwy 71B South and calls for more pedestrian crossing of N. College need to be balanced with the need to keep downtown as accessible as possible- we want to encourage visitors and residents to visit and travel through the city - not push them away because they don't live in our neighborhood.

I get it. Why a tunnel at MLK but not at the nearby School St/71B crossing? It's crossed my mind as well considering the slow but apparent redo of that area from redevelopment. Edited April 19, 2014 by TRB

[wmr]

I've been thinking about this post for a while with all the push to redo North College Avenue in town. I think its important to consider that N. College is actually Hwy 71B and the primary north/ south route through Fayetteville and also the path that most residents on the north and south ends of town use to access downtown Fayetteville. It is not a neighborhood street that only the downtown or slightly north of downtown residents use. At times it seems there is an insular or even egocentric view of some city leaders and residents that this vital connection to downtown is not needed- that barriers need to be erected to keep those who don't live downtown out. If you aren't willing to walk or ride a bicycle you are not welcome downtown. The idea of having neighborhood amenities such as retail stores located in nodes around the city is great but the center of town with it's government offices, regional entertainment attractions and its importance to the identity of Fayetteville needs to be as accessible as possible to anyone.

 

Developments such as the at-grade trail crossing on Hwy 71B South and calls for more pedestrian crossing of N. College need to be balanced with the need to keep downtown as accessible as possible- we want to encourage visitors and residents to visit and travel through the city - not push them away because they don't live in our neighborhood.

 

 

So you're suggesting that only downtown is going to be a neighborhood oriented area, and the rest of the city streets serve as rapid thoroughfares to get people downtown.  

 

I completely disagree with that mindset.  If anything, focusing dense development along S. School (where it is already starting to occur) and along N. College will only expand the definition of what people consider to be the core of the city.

 

The problem with thinking of Fayetteville the way you do, is that as Fayetteville continues to expand outward, its only going to have one tiny little dense area worth visiting, surrounded by sprawl in every direction for ten miles.  The motive behind seeking more dense development along School and College has nothing to do with erecting barriers, or keeping others out.  Its about expanding the central core of the city, creating more neighborhoods similar to downtown and Dickson, and preventing the entire rest of the city from becoming like Wedington.  

[Mith242]

I get it. Why a tunnel at MLK but not at the nearby School St/71B crossing? It's crossed my mind as well considering the slow but apparent redo of that area from redevelopment.

All the traffic studies done suggested a tunnel wouldn't be an efficient use of funds for the amount of traffic on School St.  I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but that's why the city did what they did.  But I think we know traffic counts on N College Ave should prohibit any idea of an at-grade crossing.  

[aerotive]

I've been thinking about this post for a while with all the push to redo North College Avenue in town. I think its important to consider that N. College is actually Hwy 71B and the primary north/ south route through Fayetteville and also the path that most residents on the north and south ends of town use to access downtown Fayetteville. It is not a neighborhood street that only the downtown or slightly north of downtown residents use. At times it seems there is an insular or even egocentric view of some city leaders and residents that this vital connection to downtown is not needed- that barriers need to be erected to keep those who don't live downtown out. If you aren't willing to walk or ride a bicycle you are not welcome downtown. The idea of having neighborhood amenities such as retail stores located in nodes around the city is great but the center of town with it's government offices, regional entertainment attractions and its importance to the identity of Fayetteville needs to be as accessible as possible to anyone.

 

Developments such as the at-grade trail crossing on Hwy 71B South and calls for more pedestrian crossing of N. College need to be balanced with the need to keep downtown as accessible as possible- we want to encourage visitors and residents to visit and travel through the city - not push them away because they don't live in our neighborhood.

 

Balance?  There's a grand total of one (two maybe?) crossing between North and Zion.  The balance already favors cars, massively so.  Putting a few crossings in--that should have been there a half century ago--does not make any sort of barrier.

 

As far as keeping people out of downtown, that is pure fantasy.  No one believes in that, no one is trying to do that, and in fact it's impossible.

[JamesE]

All the traffic studies done suggested a tunnel wouldn't be an efficient use of funds for the amount of traffic on School St.  I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but that's why the city did what they did.  But I think we know traffic counts on N College Ave should prohibit any idea of an at-grade crossing.  

 

I live in the Walker Park neighborhood - I was skeptical at first of an at-grade crossing, but I really like how they've pulled it off.  In another decade, we may regret having not put in a tunnel here, but for now it's perfect.

[Mith242]

I live in the Walker Park neighborhood - I was skeptical at first of an at-grade crossing, but I really like how they've pulled it off.  In another decade, we may regret having not put in a tunnel here, but for now it's perfect.

Yeah tunnels would be great.  But as you said, for now the current crossing I think will work okay.  It would be great if we could build tunnels everywhere.  But that costs money.  I think for now the city is trying to reach out to different areas of the city and get the connected into the trail system.  Putting in tunnels everywhere would suck up a lot of those funds and would end up pushing back some areas from being able to tap into the trail system, possibly for years.  Over all I think the way they are doing it is fine.  At some point in the future after the trail system reaches out to more parts of the city then they can go back and look into possibly upgrading some of the crossings into tunnels.  But I think the School Ave crossing will hold up a little better than the North St crossing.

[zman9810]

Ok...I'm sitting looking at a map of Fayetteville and the various ways to access downtown. Lets say that downtown is the area bounded by the Hwy 71B corridor on the east, Layfayette on the north ,the university on the west and Center on the south. We'll start by looking at paths from the north- specifically roads that have an exit off the bypass. Let's  use Gregg first. It is 4 lanes and improved part of the way until you reach the intersection with North at which the point it turns into a neighborhood street with multiple road bumps, stop signs and twists and turns to access downtown. The city has even built a dedicated right turn at North to encourage traffic to turn west away from downtown. Obviously not a good way to access downtown.

 

Next would be the Hwy 112/Garland exit. We all know the street is being widened and has already been so on campus. The problem there is that it stops being a good access path to downtown at the intersection with Maple, where you to turn onto Maple and it  turns into a neighborhood street with a huge amount of pedestrian traffic that crosses wherever it pleases at any time. Again, not a good way to access downtown.

 

Wedington/ North street would be the next exit although it doesn't lead directly downtown- you either use neighborhood streets like Gregg or go all the way to Hwy 71B and turn south.

 

Next up- the MLK exit which leads to Hwy 71B again. That is, unless you want to take Razorback Road north to Maple and its path to downtown.

 

Razorback Road exit is next and it's path to Maple again.

 

We've ran out of exits except Hwy 71B so lets look at Hwy16/ Huntsville Rd. This street did lead directly to downtown years ago on a steep path with a very awkward intersection with Hwy 71B right in downtown but the flow of traffic has been diverted to the MLK/ Hwy 71B intersection.

 

The last path is the Hwy 45/ Mission Blvd/ Layfayette path which is the 2 land street through the historic district that it is safe to say will never be widened or improved for better traffic flow.

 

These examples are why I say that it is important to keep the only 4 lane road that leads into downtown and through the center of the city as drivable as possible. IMO- turning this thoroughfare into a neighborhood street will discourage both residents that don't live downtown and visitors to the city from coming to the downtown area. The idea that we don't want people driving through downtown and they should use the bypass doesn't work. If I live off Appleby Road and want to drive to Fayetteville High School I should not have to drive north to Fulbright Expressway and take the bypass to MLK and drive all the way down it to the high school. If I live off Township and want to go to the city library I should not have to drive north to the bypass and then drive south and work my way back north to get there.

 

The idea of using alternative transportation sounds great until you wake up to a rainy morning like today- then that nice dry car sounds pretty good. A bicycle sounds good until you want to go to a good restaurant and your date is wearing her nice clothes and heels- then its not so good. When that family of 6 is making their grocery stock up trip, when you need to get to the hospital as quick as possible, when you're taking the kids to day care, etc. alternative transportation doesn't work so well.

 

If you have valid points to make I welcome the input. If you just want to make snarky comments, don't.

[wmr]

Turning College and South School into more urban developed streets doesn't mean they will reduce the lanes.  They might lower speed limits, and it will mean more stoplights eventually.  

 

Dickson Street used to be a faster street.  The city narrowed the drive lanes, widened sidewalks and revamped every crosswalk.  Traffic doesn't move as quickly along Dickson as it did 20 years ago.  The benefit to the neighborhood is worth it.  

 

I see your point of view as being "convenient access to downtown from other areas" as priority number one.  I just don't think its a smart opinion when talking about long-term city planning. 

[nickbenso]

zman don't forget N. School where it intersects with Archibald Yell. The big rock there literally says Fayetteville Library, Downtown and Dickson Street. It's not a bad route to get to Dickson or Center street pretty quickly. I can foresee North street from Gregg to College being 4 lanes not too long from now which would help connectivity. Im sure the people that live on North would hate it but it simply can't stay 2 lanes as Fayetteville continues to grow. I still think a slower, urbanized College will be best with the urban core being spread along College from S. School all the way to the mall area.

[zman9810]

An option that would not only keep traffic flowing smoothly on North College but would also increase pedestrian safety would be to replace sections of the center turn lane with a median. No doubt a lot of businesses would oppose it at first but by allowing u-turns at left turn signals that opposition could possibly be overcome. The utilities overhead would probably preclude planting trees in the median but small shrubs could be planted. It would certainly be a first step to improving the looks of the road and by preventing drivers from using the center lane as a merging lane plus eliminating some left turns the safety of the road would be greatly improved.