Fayetteville, Arkansas

[strmchsr77]

So comreguy, fast food, casual or fast casual for the restaurant on the corner there?

The NE corner of College and Joyce that we had been discussing is going to be the city's 2nd Whataburger location.  I was really hoping for a Chuy's.  I had heard this about 6-8 months ago but thought it was just a rumor.

Edited June 9, 2015 by strmchsr77

[jb1087]

I think that consistency in style of Lindsey's apartments is intentional. Its part of his brand much like chain retail stores do.

 

Eh, I think they do it because it's just easier.  Even retailers update their stores every 10-20 years.  Is a Lindsey apartment built in 2000 going to look much different 15 years later (either external or internal)?  

[bubba72704]

I've heard from a friend that works for Lindsey that the primary reason for the cookie cutter designs is that it takes a lot of variables out of the cost/time forecasting.  Their subs have been building the same design over and over for so long that they can be very efficient, which results in a quicker completion time and less construction waste.  Using a different design can lead to surprises that can make costs balloon and cause deadlines to be missed.  

[wmr]

I've heard from a friend that works for Lindsey that the primary reason for the cookie cutter designs is that it takes a lot of variables out of the cost/time forecasting.  Their subs have been building the same design over and over for so long that they can be very efficient, which results in a quicker completion time and less construction waste.  Using a different design can lead to surprises that can make costs balloon and cause deadlines to be missed.  

So, cheap and easy.

[TRB]

Hearing that Superior Industries will pretty much be closed up in Fayetteville by Sept. That's 400 to 500 gone an will effect the Bright Tech operation as well if the rumors are true.

[Heartland25]

Anything on the mountain inn site lately? It was announced a year ago that condos and a hotel would be built but haven't seen any details since. I'm hoping for something similar to the Renaissance, it's a great location that deserves an impressive development. Can't wait to see what finally goes there.

[comreguy]

Anything on the mountain inn site lately? It was announced a year ago that condos and a hotel would be built but haven't seen any details since. I'm hoping for something similar to the Renaissance, it's a great location that deserves an impressive development. Can't wait to see what finally goes there.

The prelim ideas were more in the 4-5 story size, though I've seen and heard nothing in quite some time.

[strmchsr77]

The prelim ideas were more in the 4-5 story size, though I've seen and heard nothing in quite some time.

That's pretty disappointing, I was really hoping for 10+ but I guess anything is better than what is there now.

[comreguy]

That's pretty disappointing, I was really hoping for 10+ but I guess anything is better than what is there now.

There isn't a market for that.

[Heartland25]

There isn't a market for that.

2 floors retail, 6 hotel & 2 condos doesn't seem unreasonable for a growing city nearing 85k. Fville seems against taller density projects so I wouldn't be surprised with 4-5 floors.

[wmr]

I'd be fine with a smaller project on that site as long as it contributed something to the fabric downtown.  Zoning allows 15 stories there, if a developer could justify it. The site is strange.  Maybe an Aloft or some other boutique hotel would make sense there.  Not sure Fayetteville has the hotel demand anymore with all of the new projects in Benton County.   A parking garage would be a must for the site.  

[Mith242]

I'd be fine with a smaller project on that site as long as it contributed something to the fabric downtown.  Zoning allows 15 stories there, if a developer could justify it. The site is strange.  Maybe an Aloft or some other boutique hotel would make sense there.  Not sure Fayetteville has the hotel demand anymore with all of the new projects in Benton County.   A parking garage would be a must for the site.  

You would think with the Razorbacks here and some of the other events it wouldn't be so hard to put in a bigger hotel.  But as you say, if there's a lot going up in Benton County, it does make it harder.  I also agree about the parking,I can't imagine anything doing well without some sort of multi level parking garage.  That would eat up some of the space and might help drive a development upwards a bit.  I suppose even a rather small development is better than what's there now.  But I'd really hate to see that space wasted on something that's just a few stores tall.

[zman9810]

Probably no one wants to hear it but the Renaissance Tower plan was a landmark project that would seem to still be possible. With the University dragging its feet on a hotel on campus there seems like a demand for 4 star hotel rooms in the center of town would be there. The condos would be the premier address for NWA as far as urban living goes. They had developed the plans to include the required parking. Downtown Fayetteville is as lively as it has ever been and such a project would add to it greatly. Hopefully the owners will have faith in what a tremendous opportunity they have and develop the property to its fullest. After all- it is in that very small slice of the city that allows a tall building.

[bubba72704]

IMHO if you put another big hotel in downtown it would put a lot of pressure on the Chancellor Hotel.  It would be pretty hard for both to stay in business.  I'd prefer a mixed use building with a ground floor for retail and 3 or 4 stories of professional office space above it.  It would be a great location for some nice law offices & such...

Edited June 12, 2015 by bubba72704

[wmr]

For the price of the land, even an apartment building like Specialized has been doing recently would make sense on that parcel.  It would need to get pretty vertical, though.  The views to the south would be worth some rent $$$.

[TRB]

Views to the west as well (sunsets, Old Main)

[Mith242]

For that matter if it was tall enough views in the other directions could be nice as well.  

[zman9810]

For that matter if it was tall enough views in the other directions could be nice as well.  

Very much so! The top floors of the building location would be one of a kind for homes in NWA with no competition in the future. As far as competing with the Chancellor I think the original Ren Tower developers envisioned the two hotels as working together to provide rooms for larger gatherings at the Town Center for conventions and such. If one goes back and reads through the Ren Tower topic on UP it was a well thought out plan that the financing fell apart for because of factors beyond the developers' control, not because it was a bad plan. Obviously we're in a different time but the basic idea is still a good one.

[Snaple4]

I agree with Zman, downtown would be able to support two hotels of high capacity and caliber... They would have some trouble for off-peak times but for events they still run out of room. Try booking a room for BBBBQ, during shareholders, razorback game (even the bla ones).... Even the apartment complexes in the area have started renting out their models on heavy weekends.

 

Not to mention the old plan would easily accommodate condos on several floors to further boost their marketability. 

Edited June 14, 2015 by Snaple4

[mzweig]

Fayetteville city government is a mess.  Because of our weak mayor and a city council that is obsessed with creating scooter insurance laws/mailbox parking laws/pushing their own social agenda as opposed to actually creating an environment for growth in our city, more and more investment and potential investment is heading north.  Being "development friendly" is perceived as a bad thing by those who are currently controlling our local government.  I'm afraid that they are all so disconnected and unfamiliar with what it means to take huge risks and make investments in real estate (and improving it) that they just don't mind running everyone off.  We will be left with more empty storefronts and a declining tax base if we cannot get some more pragmatic, business-oriented people in our local government.  You can only push these distracting genda items so far while at the same time ignoring business before the consequences will be felt.

The barriers to redeveloping North College have got to be eliminated.  The vertical height restrictions are diametrically opposed to low impact development and sustainability.  We need a plan to actively attract the type of businesses that we need here.  We need more high quality office space.  We need to plant trees and bury power lines.  We need to enforce our property maintenance standards.  We just need some common sense badly.  I am hoping to see a major change in city government come the next election and hope some intelligent, moderate, and reasonable leaders emerge here who can see the big picture.

[strmchsr77]

I could not agree more Mark!  I have said this for years...

[wmr]

Fayetteville city government is a mess.  Because of our weak mayor and a city council that is obsessed with creating scooter insurance laws/mailbox parking laws/pushing their own social agenda as opposed to actually creating an environment for growth in our city, more and more investment and potential investment is heading north. 

I agree with you.  My fear is that we get people in government who want to rollback every good development regulation we have.  

The height restriction ordinance is ridiculous, and is catered to serve a few families in the downtown area.

The mayor is incredibly frustrating.  The social justice warrior mentality of a big part of the council is also frustrating.  I really miss Dan Coody.  I can't believe we chose against him twice!  I know he made mistakes, but he was that middle ground type person, and very intelligent and forward-thinking.

[Sammy00]

I mostly support the social justice initiatives that the council takes on. And I don't say that simply to get my political beliefs out there, I say that because I am also frustrated by their economic/growth agenda (or lack thereof). It amazes me that the current members lack the capacity to take on both of these issues simultaneously. It is possible to have a socially progressive city that is also friendly to growth. If that is what they are going for, then height restrictions, for example, provide no discernible social "good." 

There are many examples of environmentally friendly, socially conscious cities around the country that are also magnets for growth (Austin, Ashville, Raleigh to name a few). While there might be a few "socially conscious/business friendly" policy positions that butt heads, often the two are completely separate, and sometimes they can work well together.

If you're open minded about it, you can have your cake and eat it too. Unfortunately....

 

[TRB]

Fayetteville city government is a mess.  Because of our weak mayor and a city council that is obsessed with creating scooter insurance laws/mailbox parking laws/pushing their own social agenda as opposed to actually creating an environment for growth in our city, more and more investment and potential investment is heading north.  Being "development friendly" is perceived as a bad thing by those who are currently controlling our local government.  I'm afraid that they are all so disconnected and unfamiliar with what it means to take huge risks and make investments in real estate (and improving it) that they just don't mind running everyone off.  We will be left with more empty storefronts and a declining tax base if we cannot get some more pragmatic, business-oriented people in our local government.  You can only push these distracting genda items so far while at the same time ignoring business before the consequences will be felt.

The barriers to redeveloping North College have got to be eliminated.  The vertical height restrictions are diametrically opposed to low impact development and sustainability.  We need a plan to actively attract the type of businesses that we need here.  We need more high quality office space.  We need to plant trees and bury power lines.  We need to enforce our property maintenance standards.  We just need some common sense badly.  I am hoping to see a major change in city government come the next election and hope some intelligent, moderate, and reasonable leaders emerge here who can see the big picture.

I don't see it getting better, just worse. The only way to address this is to increase the size of the council. We are operating under the same structure as when Fayetteville was half the size it is today and it gives little enclaves way too much say over the entire city. You have Marsh in a position to stack the planning commission and she is Kinnion and Gray will just rubber stamp what she wants. Only like minded folks shall pass. I'm sick of it and we are considering moving on up the road. They are many things Fayetteville could concentrate on and they certainly are not the SWJ causes. We are adding nothing to better position ourselves against the folks up north for families. News flash, they are on the trail kick as well, that isn't a Fayetteville thing. Heaven help this town if we fall out of favor with Texas college kids.

There's no vision, even with all that parkland in the south of town, it's just ball fields and soccer pitches for the most part. Why not engineer the West Fork of the White for whitewater activities from the pump house to the dam at Lake Sequoyah. At the same time, it stabilizes the bank from erosion. There's example after example of this type of work being done with even a small demos ration over in Siloam. Where's our cough, water park. See my ideas on the wish list thread. At least something like this that's year round. I propose it being a partnership with the U of A and making the Natatorium competion quality enough to host national events.

 

As for the hotel size thing, most every conventon guy I've ever heard screams for MORE hotels that offer full services including on site restaurants and lounges. The convention guy in Memphis pleaded with the council to stop offerin incentives for anything smaller than 300 rooms this week.  His reasoning was that the 120 run jobbers offer convention business nothing. Fayetteville's Town Center has been a major disappointment in my book. One reason is while the Chancellor is big, it's not enough for the size of stuff we should be seeking. Get another 200 plus room facility on the square and you have something to sell for more regional events. Throw in Coody's old idea of a parking deck lined by a hotel at the flat WAC lot and that's even better. 

 

Rant over

 

Edited July 23, 2015 by TRB

[TRB]

Hey Zweig, love your stuff but how bout something like this