Fayetteville, Arkansas

[Mith242]

IIRC, isn't Fort Smith the 2nd largest city in AR, population-wise, right behind Little Rock?  I don't think they include the populations of the handful of small towns around here in that total.

And to include Fort Smith in Fayetteville's population base is just plain silly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep Ft Smith is the second biggest city, and yes that is just what's in the city limits. That's not including the metro area. Although if you go by metro area Ft Smith is further down the list. To be honest I'm not sure where Ft Smith's metro is exactly. But I do know it's behind Little Rock's metro of course, and also behind northwest Arkansas's metro. Technically there's also Memhpis since West Memhis is in Arkansas. I'm not sure where Texarkana stands either but more of it's population is on the Texas side. Come to think of it Ft Smith is the only metro on the border where more or most of the population is on the Arkansas side. But anyway welcome to the board, it's nice to have someone else stop by.

[Mith242]

In another topic Arkansawyer raised a point about worried that northwest Arkansas will lose some of it's Arkansas character because so many people from out of stae are moving in. As I have said before I think northwest Arkansas has always been a bit different from the rest of the state in the first place. And although there have been a lot of Californians and hispanics and people from other parts of the country move in. Quite a few people seem to be not too far from over the border in Missouri and Oklahoma. Besides one of the complaints people have had about the Ozarks in general is that it lacks ethnic diversity. This is one way to help work on that. That and if we relied mainly on just people from other parts of the state to move here we'd have to wait a long time because Arkansas really isn't a very populous state. But I do think Fayetteville will be the one best able to keep it's identity than the other northwest Arkansas cities. Fayetteville has rather strict building codes and such and have seemed to try to keep the growth in control and let much of it go elsewhere in northwest Arkansas. In a lot of ways Fayetteville reminds me of Santa Fe, both are about the same size. Both have strict building codes. Now Santa Fe has changed since it's small town days in the 60's and 70's but it is interesting to see how many anglos have picked up the hispanic culture. Instead of all the anglos going in and totally destroying all the hispanic culture. Although it's a different situation, I'd like to think Fayetteville will be somewhat similar in this aspect.

[johnnydr87]

IIRC, isn't Fort Smith the 2nd largest city in AR, population-wise, right behind Little Rock?  I don't think they include the populations of the handful of small towns around here in that total.

And to include Fort Smith in Fayetteville's population base is just plain silly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it's the 2nd biggest. 82,000.

I was referring to the website (which you may be doing), which measured not only Fayetteville's metro, but also edge into Fort Smith's metro.

[Mith242]

Well I've been noticed in the northwest edition of the Ark Dem-Gaz there has been some negative comments made in the editorial section about the light rail. It seems many people think it's unrealistic. No one has exactly knocked the idea, but they think it's a waste of money because they simply don't believe it will be used because of our vehicle-driven society. I admit it is an expensive risk. But I also wonder if they are looking at the big picture. It has been mentioned that there isn't a huge need for one now. But you have to get started now or else it will become prohibitively expensive when there is more need for one. I also am wondering if anyone is considering the possiblity that traffic could get much much worse in the future. people might start giving it a lot more thought if a trip from say Fayetteville to Rogers becomes too much of a hassle. They've got an enormous amount of lansa and expressways around LA and it still seems they have major traffic problems. Seems to me that no matter how many lanes of traffic you put in you're still going to have problems. There are problems and limitations to a vehicle-driven society. While it is a risk, I still applaud that people here are willing to take alternative looks at ways of improving problems we have here.

[johnnydr87]

If it's marketed and built correctly, I think the idea would fly. Plus, I think that a lot of urban developments would be made just to accomodate it...which could be a major plus in the future.

[Mith242]

If it's marketed and built correctly, I think the idea would fly.  Plus, I think that a lot of urban developments would be made just to accomodate it...which could be a major plus in the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I certainly agree, but there are deffinantly those who want to just focus on the traditional more roads and more lanes outlook. It is easier to justify building more roads and more lanes when you know they will certainly be used. As opposed to a light rail that is a possibility on whether it will be accepted or not.

Edited July 18, 2005 by Mith242

[Mith242]

Well development has spread to Beaver Lake now. There are plans to build condos 12-25 stories tall in two different areas of Beaver Lake. There has been some development on the west side of Beaver Lake near Rogers but nothing like this. I haven't heard where exactly these condos will be built on Beaver Lake. Of course some people aren't happy to see this much development starting to happen further away from the main metro area. Although it's really just been a matter of time. It's another advantage that Rogers has over other cities in the metro area. They managed to annex a lot of prime real estate around I-540 before all the major growth started and they have Beaver Lake to the east of them.

Edited July 19, 2005 by Mith242

[Mith242]

Perhaps I shouldn't have named this topic Fayetteville but northwest Arkansas, since I tend to put the whole northwest Arkansas metro and not just Fayetteville. But anyway, on the local news they mentioned a problem I wasn't aware of. There's a lot of growth going on in Rogers but it's in western Rogers. There have actually been some problems in east Rogers because some businesses and moved where all the growth is in the west part of town leaving some empty vacant buildings in east Rogers. Something that might be somewhat surprising seeing all the growth going on elsewhere in Rogers. Although I really believe this will be temporary. Eventually I imagine growth will slow down in west Rogers as development fill up more and more of the now empty areas. Second of all I think there is a lot of potential in east Rogers due to it's location to Beaver Lake. With condoes and more high dollar development happen around Beaver Lake it will help business pick up on the east side of Rogers. I forgot to mention this but those proposed condos near Beaver Lake will be going from $100,000 to $1 Mil.

[Arkansawyer]

Well apparently they had some meetings about all the future projects possibly happening up here in northwest Arkansas.

Edited July 19, 2005 by Arkansawyer

[Mith242]

Well, given the method and scale of voting, it doesn't seem like this was intended to be a serious springboard for development, but just to give an rough idea of what the citizens want. In other words, it sounds as if action is far, far away. How many of these are pie in the sky, and how many do you see eventually happening, Mith? Also, what is the timetable you would give for some of these projects? From an outsider's perspective, I think it might be best to expand arterial routes rather than I-540.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes this isn't any serious vote on what will happen but it does give them an idea in which to look. But as far as any project that's going to happen in Arkansas it's not just around the corner by any means. Are there any projects that happen that quickly in Arkansas? maybe elsewhere but certainly not northwest Arkansas. I have heard people talking a lot about expanding arterial routes instead of widening I-540. But there also seem to be a lot of people who loath the idea of I-540 being more than just a four lane highway. I think many people are trying to keep the area from seeming to much like a 'bigger' type metro. I would imagine that the light rail idea will be much more popular in Fayetteville than the rest of northwest Arkansas. Not that Fayetteville has more to gain, but Fayetteville seems much more open to alternative ideas than just about any other area I know of in Arkansas. I mean Fayetteville is trying to establish a bike/jogging trail from the southern part of the city to the northern part of the city as an alternative route to give people reason to travel without their vehicles, not just for recreational use. I'd say any of the projects will probably not be happening anytime soon. We're still waiting for the 412 bypass around Springdale that we've been hearing about for years. But a project like the light rail would especially be a very long project to accomplish due to what's involved and the cost.

[Mith242]

Well I have some more news about the condos to possibly be built at Beaver Lake. Now I am hearing a project that will have five 25 story condo complexes on the westside of Beaver Lake near Avoca. The whole complex will be around 177 acres. Since Beaver Lake hasn't seen much development yet it is being met with a lot of criticism. A lot of people don't want to see such a large project and disrupt the natural beauty of the area. But according to developers the reason why they are being built as high as they are is because of the rugged terrain and wanting to provide some scenic vistas to the higher floors. I know people want to keep Beaver Lake undeveloped but I really think it's only a matter of time before development starts taking place out there whether people like it or not. In my opinion this is much better than putting in several hundred houses and subdivisions. Which would make a bigger disruption over a larger area. I don't think the condos would be visible from that far away. It's not like Beaver Lake is a round lake where it would be visible no matter where you were on the lake. As I said before, people who have homes there are going to have to realize that more people are coming to their area. While a condo complex like this will be more visible in that area I think it will have a smaller impact to the area as a whole. If the project is approved the project is expected to be built in about two years. Sorry I don't have a better picture, but as usual there was no mention of who the developer is and I can't find a website giving more details or pictures.

Edited July 19, 2005 by Mith242

[Mith242]

Arkansas Business is reporting that for the first time since they started tracking restaurants in 1997 all top ten spots in sales were taken by chains. For a long time Jose's and Bordino's were part of that list because they were owned by the same guy and housed in the same building. One part of the building being Jose's and the other part being Bordino's. But Joe Fennel sold Jose's and has set it up to eventually be a chain/franchise restaurant (with hopefully better success than Cafe Santa Fe also based out of Fayetteville that spread out to several states then fell apart a few years later). But now Jose's and Bordino's were listed as seperate restaurants. Can't say I'm happy with this trend but I do believe many local places are still doing well. Some places like a lot of the local Mexican restaurants tend to have several smaller type restaurants than one big location. Which also splits up the sales too.

[Arkansawyer]

Well I have some more news about the condos to possibly be built at Beaver Lake.  Now I am hearing a project that will have five 25 story condo complexes on the westside of Beaver Lake near Avoca.  The whole complex will be around 177 acres.  Since Beaver Lake hasn't seen much development yet it is being met with a lot of criticism.  A lot of people don't want to see such a large project and disrupt the natural beauty of the area.  But according to developers the reason why they are being built as high as they are is because of the rugged terrain and wanting to provide some scenic vistas to the higher floors.  I know people want to keep Beaver Lake undeveloped but I really think it's only a matter of time before development starts taking place out there whether people like it or not.  In my opinion this is much better than putting in several hundred houses and subdivisions.  Which would make a bigger disruption over a larger area.  I don't think the condos would be visible from that far away.  It's not like Beaver Lake is a round lake where it would be visible no matter where you were on the lake.  As I said before, people who have homes there are going to have to realize that more people are coming to their area.  While a condo complex like this will be more visible in that area I think it will have a smaller impact to the area as a whole.  If the project is approved the project is expected to be built in about two years.  Sorry I don't have a better picture, but as usual there was no mention of who the developer is and I can't find a website giving more details or pictures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! Five twenty-five story condo buldings is amazing, especially since Northwest Arkansas doesn't have anything that is even close to that density. How much is the development going to cost? I'm not familiar with the area, so could you describe what type of person would live there, e.g. retired people, young professionals, or others? Also, is there much/any boating on Beaver Lake? Do you foresee more development in the area as inevitable, or is this just a one-of-a-kind development? Thanks.

[Mith242]

Wow! Five twenty-five story condo buldings is amazing, especially since Northwest Arkansas doesn't have anything that is even close to that density. How much is the development going to cost? I'm not familiar with the area, so could you describe what type of person would live there, e.g. retired people, young professionals, or others? Also, is there much/any boating on Beaver Lake? Do you foresee more development in the area as inevitable, or is this just a one-of-a-kind development? Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure how much it will cost, the developers haven't given those details. I've been a little disappointed in the lack of info. The local tv stations have so far been the only ones to pick up this story. Nothing in the papers or even Arkansas Business so far. I would have to think it is going more after retired people and such. There is a little development near Beaver Lake near the Rogers area but I think this is a little bit further away to the north, a bit east of Avoca. But I guess it isn't that far away for young professionals especially if they worked in Rogers or Bentonville. Beaver Lake is quite popular and is used a lot for boating and recreation. Most of the lake has avoided most development so far so I think it's one of the reasons quite a few people have been vocal against the project. But Beaver Lake is close to the metro area and I really believe it's just a matter of time before more development starts taking place over there. I am surprised that such a large development is taking place this soon. I guess I figured some smaller developments would take place before something like this. But yes with all the growth going on I really believe it was a matter of time before more development started happening towards Beaver Lake.

[johnnydr87]

Well I have some more news about the condos to possibly be built at Beaver Lake.  Now I am hearing a project that will have five 25 story condo complexes on the westside of Beaver Lake near Avoca.  The whole complex will be around 177 acres.  Since Beaver Lake hasn't seen much development yet it is being met with a lot of criticism.  A lot of people don't want to see such a large project and disrupt the natural beauty of the area.  But according to developers the reason why they are being built as high as they are is because of the rugged terrain and wanting to provide some scenic vistas to the higher floors.  I know people want to keep Beaver Lake undeveloped but I really think it's only a matter of time before development starts taking place out there whether people like it or not.  In my opinion this is much better than putting in several hundred houses and subdivisions.  Which would make a bigger disruption over a larger area.  I don't think the condos would be visible from that far away.  It's not like Beaver Lake is a round lake where it would be visible no matter where you were on the lake.  As I said before, people who have homes there are going to have to realize that more people are coming to their area.  While a condo complex like this will be more visible in that area I think it will have a smaller impact to the area as a whole.  If the project is approved the project is expected to be built in about two years.  Sorry I don't have a better picture, but as usual there was no mention of who the developer is and I can't find a website giving more details or pictures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's insane. Little Rock would be lucky to get one of those.

[Mith242]

That's insane. Little Rock would be lucky to get one of those.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm still a bit disappointed to not hear more news on this. None of the newspapers have picked up on this or Arkansas Business. Only a couple of the local tv stations have mentioned it and they were also talking about a meeting between the condo developers and some of the outspoken locals in the area who weren't happy about the project. Hopefully they will eventually release some more info on this. I've been curious how many condo units will be in this whole project.

[Mith242]

Well after the light rail project drew criticism in the editorials recently now the bike/jogging trail is also. While Fayetteville is a rather liberal progressive city, there are those who aren't. Some people see a bike/jogging trail throughout the city as a waste of money that would be better used for more road construction. While road construction certainly is important I have no problems with Fayetteville looking for alternative methods to get people out of their vehicles and use other ways to get about in the city. I like that Fayetteville just isn't like any other city, it's what makes Fayetteville unique.

[Mith242]

There's been some talk of a parking deck near Dickson St. It could certainly use one, but the city doesn't have the money to build one for now. But there is a proposal to make all the parking around the Dickson St area paid lots. The money could help raise some funds for a parking deck. The parking meters would be digital and be able to accept credit/debit cards.

[Mith242]

Well I have found a little more news about the proposed condos on Beaver Lake. One source I saw listed the condos would range from $100,000 to $1 Mil. I sorta thought the $100,000 would be sorta cheap considering how the real estate market is up here. A newer story on this project said the cheapest would go for $300,000. Aside from the criticism it is receiving from homeowners on Beaver Lake who don't want such a large project in their area is concern on services for the development. There doesn't appear to be much infrastructure in the area for a project this big. Once all the units are filled it will have a larger population than the nearest town of Avoca. There are questions as to whether or not some services will have to be provided locally. Some people don't think Avoca could handle servicing the project as in the fire station and so on.

[Mith242]

The northwest edition of the Ark Dem-Gaz has finally mentioned the condo development at Beaver Lake. But once again the info is a bit different than what I have heard elsewhere. They have reported seven 15 story condos instead of the five 25 story condos. I'm not sure if they have changed plans to try to make the development more acceptable to some of the critics or what. For something that's supposibly going to be ready to open in two years there seems to be a lot details to be worked out. Although in some ways I hate to see development keep expanding out into the Ozarks the idea of development along Beaver Lake is interesting. What if instead of a 'riverwalk' they eventually developed something like a 'lakewalk' along part of Beaver Lake. Although I guess it would be easier if Beaver Lake was closer to the core of the metro area.

[Mith242]

Getting back to the topic of Fayetteville roads. I have wondered if Fayetteville will ever work on more east-west roads. Much of the future road construction plans are based on north-south roads. Fayetteville is very much based on a north-south axis because of the terrain. The hills around Fayetteville tend to be on a north-south axis and have always caused problems in developing major east-west routes. I believe this is why most major east-west highways exist further north. There are really only two major east-west roads that have been developed into more than two lanes. Joyce Ave is on the northern edge of the city where the land becomes flatter. 6th St is on the southern part of town and in a bit of a valley. Wedington has been expanded on the west side of town. When they widened it over five years ago they cut down one of the hills so it wouldn't be so steep and also doesn't rise up as high as it used to. But now I wonder if that would happen now. With the hillside ordinance I doubt they'd cut down or lop off part of any of the hills now. Eventually Fayetteville might have to look into developing a major east-west route closer to the center of the city.

[Mith242]

Well I've lost my parking spot for Qdoba on Dickson St. I had seen mention in an article that there was talk of building something in the lot between where Qdoba is and the Underwood building. Apparently it was more than just talk. They have it fenced off and look like they are putting in some equipment now. But it will be nice to see some more development around Dickson St also.

[Mith242]

The new parking deck is officially open at the university. It's the biggest parking deck in the state. Not sure how many vehicles it holds but I believe it is 9 storys tall. Now if we can eventually get one for around the Dickson St/Square area.

[Aporkalypse]

Dickson needs a parking deck, it would've been nice if it had been incorporated into the Walton Arts Center project a few years ago. One of these days I'm hoping a major hotel will set up an upscale hotel near Dickson or the square and they could potentially add a parking deck.

I think condos would do well around Beaver Lake as there are many older people-retirees in Benton Co that would jump on them. Would they be similar to what we see on Hamilton? There is a lot of opposition to building around Lake Maumelle in West LR because it is a reservoir but it's gorgeous scenery (it's the backdrop of Stephens' golf course for the super-rich) and would lend itself well to condo development in the city's fastest growing area.

You know I think the light rail plan is a bit silly for NWA but I think a jogging/bike trail akin to what Little Rock has on the Riverfronts is a great idea, I'm not sure why it would get so much opposition.

[Mith242]

Dickson needs a parking deck, it would've been nice if it had been incorporated into the Walton Arts Center project a few years ago.  One of these days I'm hoping a major hotel will set up an upscale hotel near Dickson or the square and they could potentially add a parking deck.

I think condos would do well around Beaver Lake as there are many older people-retirees in Benton Co that would jump on them.  Would they be similar to what we see on Hamilton?  There is a lot of opposition to building around Lake Maumelle in West LR because it is a reservoir but it's gorgeous scenery (it's the backdrop of Stephens' golf course for the super-rich) and would lend itself well to condo development in the city's fastest growing area.

You know I think the light rail plan is a bit silly for NWA but I think a jogging/bike trail akin to what Little Rock has on the Riverfronts is a great idea, I'm not sure why it would get so much opposition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the trail system gets some opposition because it's not really being set up as just a recreational trail system. They are spending a decent amount of money on it and are promoting it more for an alternative for getting around the city without a vehicle. When it's all finished it will go from the southern part of the city to close to the Springdale/Fayetteville border. I think some people would rather see the money used for upgrading and widening more roads basically.

Yes I'd like to also see an upscale hotel closer to Dickson also. They are putting one in but it's over on College Ave closer to the Square. It will also have a parking deck, but not really close enough for use if you want to visit Dickson. It would have been nice if they had built a parking deck when they did the Walton Art center parking. But at the time Dickson wasn't really a great place to go at that time. I don't think they quite knew what was in store.

Edited August 19, 2005 by Mith242