Fayetteville, Arkansas

[Mith242]

Yeah I admit the more I think about it, the more I have to think that trying to 'create affordable housing' just doesn't seem like something that's very 'do-able'. It is a nice idea and it looks great on paper but I'm just not sure how you could actually make it work. I still wish there was a way so that more city employees could have more options of living in the city itself. But I guess the best option to make that happen would be to offer more money. But I still would want Fayetteville to keep from being another Santa Fe, a place where only the rich from west/east coast (in our case California/west coast) can afford to live. I want Fayetteville to remain an actual city rather than more of a 'club' for just the upper class. We're nowhere near that, but I'd still hate to think we could be heading down that path.

[cowbreath]

Yeah, I definitely find a lot of sympathy for your point, cocothief. It has to be ok to achieve better living conditions, otherwise there is no American dream which would be contrary to our government's mentality. Personally I think we should take steps to do better for us and our families. Unfortunately we've had flight to the suburbs for many cities despite probably a need to develop within city itself for the people, so I think things got a little more complicated.

[astrife]

Like Cabrini Green? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabrini-Green

Every neighborhood isn't going to have the same character.

I suppose they could with some massive social engineering, but I really don't think our city should focus on that.

I know it seems heartless to be so anti-affordable housing. I've just had bad encounters with Section-8 in the past.

I work hard, and dammit, if I want to use my money to be exclusive in my decision as to where I live, I will.

I don't want the government subsidizing some crime infested crack den next door "for the greater good". I know thats an extreme example and generalization, but its my fear.

I used to be much more "socially conscious" until I started paying real taxes.

I agree whole heartedly. Market forces in general work these problems out on their own. Like you mentioned earlier: if housing prices are too high for most of the people in the market to afford the market will adjust and the prices will go down.

This might sound harsh, but I really have no problem if in the future Goshen or one of the smaller nearby communities becomes the place where low income people with jobs in Fayetteville live. That's how it works for city workers in Manhattan (although there is still is a push for affordable housing there via rent control and what-not, but market forces overtime usually win considering the median price for an apartment in Manhattan is like 850,000 right now), and I don't feel my city taxes should go to subsidizing other people's mortgage payements when there is affordable housing fifteen or so miles away in another area. I don't feel it is anyone's right to live within a particular city. If Fayetteville ever gets really serious with subsidizing affordable housing with my city taxes then I will move to a nearby city like Springdale, Rogers or Bentonville that isn't so searious about affordable housing.

Speaking of opting out of a government for tax purposes it almost seems like a good idea to move to Texas where a state income tax is unconstituitional while Arkansas deems it necessary to tax 7% if your in the top bracket. If you make enough it seems like moving to Texas might be a very wise financial move.

[aerotive]

I agree whole heartedly. Market forces in general work these problems out on their own. Like you mentioned earlier: if housing prices are too high for most of the people in the market to afford the market will adjust and the prices will go down.

This might sound harsh, but I really have no problem if in the future Goshen or one of the smaller nearby communities becomes the place where low income people with jobs in Fayetteville live. That's how it works for city workers in Manhattan (although there is still is a push for affordable housing there via rent control and what-not, but market forces overtime usually win considering the median price for an apartment in Manhattan is like 850,000 right now), and I don't feel my city taxes should go to subsidizing other people's mortgage payements when there is affordable housing fifteen or so miles away in another area. I don't feel it is anyone's right to live within a particular city. If Fayetteville ever gets really serious with subsidizing affordable housing with my city taxes then I will move to a nearby city like Springdale, Rogers or Bentonville that isn't so searious about affordable housing.

Speaking of opting out of a government for tax purposes it almost seems like a good idea to move to Texas where a state income tax is unconstituitional while Arkansas deems it necessary to tax 7% if your in the top bracket. If you make enough it seems like moving to Texas might be a very wise financial move.

If someone is very high income is would make sense. But for more average incomes it's a wash--Texas has to get revenue from somewhere and they get it mainly from higher sales and property taxes.

[Mith242]

If someone is very high income is would make sense. But for more average incomes it's a wash--Texas has to get revenue from somewhere and they get it mainly from higher sales and property taxes.

Yeah I had family who used to live in Texas for a while. They were excited at first because of the lack of income tax, but like you mentioned the higher property taxes made up the difference.

[masons_dad1]

I agree whole heartedly. Market forces in general work these problems out on their own. Like you mentioned earlier: if housing prices are too high for most of the people in the market to afford the market will adjust and the prices will go down.

That is essentially the bottom-line. No city governement in their right mind is going to voluntarily take on the responsibility of affordable housing if the demand is still high enough for more expensive housing. Why open a can of worms...

Just don't acknowledge that there are poor people living among us and the problem will resolve itself.

[cocothief]

That is essentially the bottom-line. No city governement in their right mind is going to voluntarily take on the responsibility of affordable housing if the demand is still high enough for more expensive housing. Why open a can of worms...

Just don't acknowledge that there are poor people living among us and the problem will resolve itself.

For the sake of arguement, Fayetteville does do some things which make development more expensive.

These are mainly quality of life things, like trees, parkland ordinance, fees, etc etc. Those can un-naturally impact development costs on the front end.

On the back end, those are all demand-increasing items. They make QOL higher, which in turn creates higher demand for housing in Fayetteville.

I don't know if its because there is a lack of demand for lower income housing, or if its the above stated drivers which are hurting more moderately priced developments on the front end.

What I am inclined to believe, at least in the short term, is that a lot of developers got caught up in the land rush about five years ago and land prices escalated too rapidly. The market is slow to react to this overpricing of land which translates into higher home prices. It is going to take some more people bailing out of the game for things to get back to a more natural level around here. When that happens, prices should respond accordingly. They haven't yet to a large degree.

I hope, for various reasons, that property prices (and values) stay high in Fayetteville. Its by no means exclusive at this point. When a person can go just south of downtown and purchase a fixer-upper for $50k, its not an exlusionary market, and therefore, not a problem at this point.

I think we were spoiled in NWA for a long time by affordable housing options and now that things have begun to pick up around here, we just aren't used to looking at home purchases like most of the rest of the country does. Affordable may mean that you have to buy in a less desireable part of town.

Its not the end of the world. Almost all areas of NWA still have great school districts.

Try buying something affordable in a large city in a safe area which has a decent school district, and then compare that to what we have in NWA and Fayetteville.

We still have it pretty darned good. Some of these Fayetteville city idealists need a reality check, badly.

We could use some higher paying jobs, though.

[astrife]

That is essentially the bottom-line. No city governement in their right mind is going to voluntarily take on the responsibility of affordable housing if the demand is still high enough for more expensive housing. Why open a can of worms...

Just don't acknowledge that there are poor people living among us and the problem will resolve itself.

A house within city limits is not a right; it is a benefit you gain if you can afford the real estate there. If you cannot afford this benefit and must commute twenty minutes to work everyday, then so be it. It is not the government's responsibility to come in and force the market in an artificial direction. This country is so prosperous precisely because the government kept its hands out of economic areas it had no expertise regulating.

Also I did not say that the low income people should be ignored, but rather that the particular location of their homes (whether it be in the city limits or outside) is not something that is of such dire importance to the low income population's well being that the government needs to step in.

[Mith242]

For the sake of arguement, Fayetteville does do some things which make development more expensive.

These are mainly quality of life things, like trees, parkland ordinance, fees, etc etc. Those can un-naturally impact development costs on the front end.

On the back end, those are all demand-increasing items. They make QOL higher, which in turn creates higher demand for housing in Fayetteville.

I don't know if its because there is a lack of demand for lower income housing, or if its the above stated drivers which are hurting more moderately priced developments on the front end.

What I am inclined to believe, at least in the short term, is that a lot of developers got caught up in the land rush about five years ago and land prices escalated too rapidly. The market is slow to react to this overpricing of land which translates into higher home prices. It is going to take some more people bailing out of the game for things to get back to a more natural level around here. When that happens, prices should respond accordingly. They haven't yet to a large degree.

I hope, for various reasons, that property prices (and values) stay high in Fayetteville. Its by no means exclusive at this point. When a person can go just south of downtown and purchase a fixer-upper for $50k, its not an exlusionary market, and therefore, not a problem at this point.

I think we were spoiled in NWA for a long time by affordable housing options and now that things have begun to pick up around here, we just aren't used to looking at home purchases like most of the rest of the country does. Affordable may mean that you have to buy in a less desireable part of town.

Its not the end of the world. Almost all areas of NWA still have great school districts.

Try buying something affordable in a large city in a safe area which has a decent school district, and then compare that to what we have in NWA and Fayetteville.

We still have it pretty darned good. Some of these Fayetteville city idealists need a reality check, badly.

We could use some higher paying jobs, though.

As always very good points. I also agree NWA will eventually see a correction in the market. Although I think Fayetteville possibly could be one of the areas of NWA that sees it occur. If Fayetteville keeps getting recognition with so many rankings and polls it could possibly keep more people moving in from other areas. Even if it's just retirees who aren't worried about needing a good high paying job.

[Mith242]

I almost forgot to mention. There was an interesting editorial in todays' Northwest Arkansas Times talking about New urbanism and the City Plan 2025 and the city's recent lack of 'enthusiasm' for for it. About how it the meetings were a great idea, but now that all the other people who didn't attend are making the guidelines hard to follow.

[hogwash]

The city should scrap the whole idea of getting inclusionary zoning passed and get a community development non-profit or someone agency to build affordable housing or get some other non-profit to create a land trust. Trying to administer some program like that in the city is too involved and frankly things aren't so terrible in Fayetteville

[masons_dad1]

The city should scrap the whole idea of getting inclusionary zoning passed and get a community development non-profit or someone agency to build affordable housing or get some other non-profit to create a land trust. Trying to administer some program like that in the city is too involved and frankly things aren't so terrible in Fayetteville

How terrible things are in any city depends on the social and/or financial circumstances of the residents. Things may not be terrible enough in Fayetteville to warrant serious consideration of affordable housing, but there are plenty of people in Fayetteville who are in desperate need of affordable housing; as there is in every city in the world. Statistics alone cannot wipe away the problems of poverty and homelessness in Fayetteville or any other city.

[Mith242]

Well as bad as some of our City Council meetings can be at least you know it could be worse. Apparently in Clarksville, Tenn a man shot and killed himself at the City Council meeting when he realized his request for a rezoning was denied.

[cowbreath]

Well as bad as some of our City Council meetings can be at least you know it could be worse. Apparently in Clarksville, Tenn a man shot and killed himself at the City Council meeting when he realized his request for a rezoning was denied.

I noticed that, too, and I'm sure there are many heated city council meetings through the country that may require proofing of their security because of this. It seems like there are too many issues that can fall badly for the city instead of developments and developers. Anyways, you know how our country is, one person does something and we have to adjust security measures everywhere.

On another note, I read an msn article today about 8 good real estate markets. Anyways, I actually only partly read it, but it has some mentioning of Fayetteville, AR, in there although we are not on their top 5. 8 best markets for real estate

[masons_dad1]

On another note, I read an msn article today about 8 good real estate markets. Anyways, I actually only partly read it, but it has some mentioning of Fayetteville, AR, in there although we are not on their top 5. 8 best markets for real estate

At least Fayetteville's home prices will keep growing, which makes for great "investment homes," but not so great for affordability. Affordability will eventually be a problem in Fayetteville and then it will end up being too expensive a place for average people to live. But hey, NWA needs a Beverly Hills don't it?!

[Mith242]

I noticed that, too, and I'm sure there are many heated city council meetings through the country that may require proofing of their security because of this. It seems like there are too many issues that can fall badly for the city instead of developments and developers. Anyways, you know how our country is, one person does something and we have to adjust security measures everywhere.

On another note, I read an msn article today about 8 good real estate markets. Anyways, I actually only partly read it, but it has some mentioning of Fayetteville, AR, in there although we are not on their top 5. 8 best markets for real estate

For a while I couldn't find what you were talking about. But I finally found something on one of their article's mentioning the top ten low cost cities with plentiful jobs. Was this what you saw?

http://realestate.msn.com/Buying/Article2....umentid=3863709

[masons_dad1]

For a while I couldn't find what you were talking about. But I finally found something on one of their article's mentioning the top ten low cost cities with plentiful jobs. Was this what you saw?

http://realestate.msn.com/Buying/Article2....umentid=3863709

That one you posted is a ranking for the entire metro and not just Fayetteville. The one that cowbreath pointed to was just a mention of someone buying an investment house in Fayetteville as an example of how well college towns do in the real estate market.

[Mith242]

Okay, duh, for some reason I wasn't seeing that part when I checked it out earlier. I kept wondering where the mention was.

[cowbreath]

That one you posted is a ranking for the entire metro and not just Fayetteville. The one that cowbreath pointed to was just a mention of someone buying an investment house in Fayetteville as an example of how well college towns do in the real estate market.

Yeah, I guess ironically I chose to buy a house in Fayetteville because of the high sales taxes and the high real estate prices. I figure it will keep my home value more stable, which I feel is important as the housing market adjusts.

[Mith242]

So has anyone seen Fayetteville's new 'pine tree'? I haven't driven by it but I did see a pic in the newspaper. Not sure if it's going to really stand out like a sore thumb. I will admit it does look better than some other fake tree antennas in other areas.

[thewizard16]

So has anyone seen Fayetteville's new 'pine tree'? I haven't driven by it but I did see a pic in the newspaper. Not sure if it's going to really stand out like a sore thumb. I will admit it does look better than some other fake tree antennas in other areas.

Where exactly is it? I think I have because I was thinking I saw a really strange looking tree yesterday.

[Mith242]

Where exactly is it? I think I have because I was thinking I saw a really strange looking tree yesterday.

I believe I read it was on Crossover near a fire station.

[strmchsr77]

I believe I read it was on Crossover near a fire station.

This is the stupidist thing I have ever heard of. I have not seen it yet but wouldn't a 150 ft pipe cleaner pole stick out much more than just the normal cell tower that we are used to seeing. Man, only in Fayetteville!

[Mith242]

This is the stupidist thing I have ever heard of. I have not seen it yet but wouldn't a 150 ft pipe cleaner pole stick out much more than just the normal cell tower that we are used to seeing. Man, only in Fayetteville!

I've seen them in other places. At least they didn't choose some of the other designs that I've also seen.

[strmchsr77]

The new section of Van Ashe drive between Steele and Gregg will be opening tomorrow. Eventually they will extend this all the way to the Interstate and to Hwy 112 which would provide much better access to the business in north Fayetteville as well as spur more development in the area.

Fayetteville, AR- The Mayor, City Council, and the Engineering Divisionwould like to invite you to a ceremony for the opening of Van AscheDrive to traffic that will be held on Thursday, October 18, 2007 at 3:00p.m. near the intersection of Van Asche Drive and Gregg Street. This project extended Van Asche Drive from Steele Boulevard to GreggStreet, providing an alternative route to access the CMN Business Parkarea. This new route is a 4-lane facility, with a 20