Fayetteville, Arkansas

[mzweig]

Nearly all of my vendor friends that are from Fayetteville still live in Fayetteville. They would rather drive than move to Benton county. They say that they like the nightlife here and most of their other friends and relatives are still in Fay. I guess it just depends on where you are from.

I would echo your comments and add that they like the schools, being near a university, the older neighborhoods, the downtown that's alive, the more liberal political environment, and less church-related influence than Bentonville or Rogers. Oh, yeah....and less traffic.

My experience is people from outside NWA who move to Fayetteville are generally happier than people from outside NWA who move to Bentonville or Rogers.

M

[Mith242]

Okay it's not big news but it's been sorta slow lately. Looks like they're going to be replacing the stoplight at West and Lafayette. I saw the poles sitting near the intersection. I don't think I've paid too much attention but it's the only stop light I recall that's still on a wire instead of a pole. Does anyone know of any others offhand?

[thewizard16]

Okay it's not big news but it's been sorta slow lately. Looks like they're going to be replacing the stoplight at West and Lafayette. I saw the poles sitting near the intersection. I don't think I've paid too much attention but it's the only stop light I recall that's still on a wire instead of a pole. Does anyone know of any others offhand?

I think there might be another one somewhere down California, but I don't recall exactly.

[zman9810]

Okay it's not big news but it's been sorta slow lately. Looks like they're going to be replacing the stoplight at West and Lafayette. I saw the poles sitting near the intersection. I don't think I've paid too much attention but it's the only stop light I recall that's still on a wire instead of a pole. Does anyone know of any others offhand?

I think the one close to the Harmon Ave. parking garage is on a wire- the intersection of Duncan and Center if I remember right. I know they aren't as modern but they are less obtrusive- those big metal poles aren't real attractive.

Edited November 13, 2007 by zman9810

[das450]

Dickson Street Area Problems:

Official For Sale Properties:

Tony C's College Inn is For Sale (off of West Avenue) as well as his coffee shop on Garland. Signs on the building say so.

Blu on West Avenue is For Sale. MLS 515941

CLub 414 is for sale and will be made into a Pizza Place.

Another Bar is for sale which is 990 Square Feet and a confidentiality agreement is required to view it

MLS: 511359

Rumor has it that On the Rocks is on its way to market as well.

Anyone have any info on these projects ????

[das450]

608 West Dickson is also up for sale (Former location of Mr. Tux). I suspect the project that was planned fell through.

1.5 Million for the property.

517005 MLS

[Mith242]

Thanks for all the news, even if it is bad news. I had a feeling The Dickson had fallen through. Although I had hoped maybe they were waiting till after the Lofts at Underwood Plaza were completed to see how well it did. Looks like that area of West Ave is a bit dead. Although I guess just because they're for sale doesn't mean all of those places have closed. I can't help but think as more restaurants open in Benton County that Fayetteville has to readjust.

[strmchsr77]

Thanks for all the news, even if it is bad news. I had a feeling The Dickson had fallen through. Although I had hoped maybe they were waiting till after the Lofts at Underwood Plaza were completed to see how well it did. Looks like that area of West Ave is a bit dead. Although I guess just because they're for sale doesn't mean all of those places have closed. I can't help but think as more restaurants open in Benton County that Fayetteville has to readjust.

Yeah, I don't think that any of them have closed yet. Hopefully they will stay open whether they sell or not.

[strmchsr77]

In other news, it looks like FHS will be staying where it is. They are going to add on to the high school again and change how the school is entered. I am not completely sure how it is going to work yet but it will expand the capacity to 2400 students (10-12th) and will cost between 30-40 million. They might also build a 9th grade high school across Stone sometime after this first expansion is done. I don't know where all of these students are going to park. I am still for having a 2 high school system.

More information from the Times: Future FHS - Times

and more info from The Morning News: Future FHS - Morning News

[cocothief]

I think these downtown properties being for sale is a good thing for Fayetteville in the long run.

Some of the moves made the last five years on Dickson (Barber, Divinity comes to mind) inflated property prices far beyond what they should have been.

This inflation has filtered out through Fayetteville.

"Hey, if they're getting 3 million for .25 acres downtown, how much can we get for 2.5 acres midtown?"

Before prices readjust to reasonable levels, there are going to have to be a few people who sell and sell for a loss. Hopefully then they can lower some of the rents on Dickson and downtown and businesses can start making money down there again.

If you're interested in longterm redevelopment of the inner city, a saturated market in the near term is a good thing.

I don't see demand for residential and commercial space decreasing in Fayetteville anytime soon. More of these properties hitting the market now will only allow for a market correction that is badly needed in this town. That will free up some properties for redevelopment that are for the time being just being held for speculatory appreciation.

I don't see this as being a bad thing.

[Mith242]

In other news, it looks like FHS will be staying where it is. They are going to add on to the high school again and change how the school is entered. I am not completely sure how it is going to work yet but it will expand the capacity to 2400 students (10-12th) and will cost between 30-40 million. They might also build a 9th grade high school across Stone sometime after this first expansion is done. I don't know where all of these students are going to park. I am still for having a 2 high school system.

More information from the Times: Future FHS - Times

and more info from The Morning News: Future FHS - Morning News

Yeah it's sounding like they'll move the main entrance from Stone over to 6th. Sounds like the 9th grade part will be near where the current entrance is.

[Mith242]

I think these downtown properties being for sale is a good thing for Fayetteville in the long run.

Some of the moves made the last five years on Dickson (Barber, Divinity comes to mind) inflated property prices far beyond what they should have been.

This inflation has filtered out through Fayetteville.

"Hey, if they're getting 3 million for .25 acres downtown, how much can we get for 2.5 acres midtown?"

Before prices readjust to reasonable levels, there are going to have to be a few people who sell and sell for a loss. Hopefully then they can lower some of the rents on Dickson and downtown and businesses can start making money down there again.

If you're interested in longterm redevelopment of the inner city, a saturated market in the near term is a good thing.

I don't see demand for residential and commercial space decreasing in Fayetteville anytime soon. More of these properties hitting the market now will only allow for a market correction that is badly needed in this town. That will free up some properties for redevelopment that are for the time being just being held for speculatory appreciation.

I don't see this as being a bad thing.

Good to hear a more positive spin on all of this. I hope you're right. I'm not too surprised with Tony C, I think he jumped into more than he could handle or was prepared for. I really don't think he had any idea on how to successfully run a coffee shop. But overall it does seem like the places on West Ave have been up for sale a number of times the past 5 or so years. I wonder if Dickson isn't successful enough to be able to expand a bit off the street itself.

[cocothief]

Good to hear a more positive spin on all of this. I hope you're right. I'm not too surprised with Tony C, I think he jumped into more than he could handle or was prepared for. I really don't think he had any idea on how to successfully run a coffee shop. But overall it does seem like the places on West Ave have been up for sale a number of times the past 5 or so years. I wonder if Dickson isn't successful enough to be able to expand a bit off the street itself.

Prices are inflated. I believe it started downtown, so it makes sense it will start to decline downtown.

The properties being for sale aren't necessarily a reflection of a declining street, but of an overpriced one.

People still flock to Dickson Street in droves.

Liquor is being sold, food is being eaten.

There is room for businesses to succeed. In fact, on a demand basis, businesses have a better chance of thriving on Dickson Street now than at any time in the past 40 years.

The imbalance in the market is not on the consumer side. It is on the Cost of Doing Business side.

Maybe we have FINALLY reached the threshold for rents on Dickson, and via extension, the capacity for carrying financing costs of ownership. Hopefully these properties for sale indicate just that.

Downward pressure on downtown commercial property prices is a good thing IMO. It will allow more opportunities for common sense redevelopment to take place.

A developer cannot construct a feasible pro forma for an infill project if land prices are outrageously out of balance with what they could recapture via rents and or sales over a reasonable period of time.

Divinity and Legacy, IMO, drove a lot of this frenzied, land-rush buying mentality which drove prices far above actual appraisals.

Downward pressure on prices is needed and in some ways, inevitable.

I don't think it is a reflection of decreased demand, but of common sense once again beginning to rear its beautiful head in our fair city.

May these properties linger on the market until the sellers are forced to accept appraised value...

Edited November 13, 2007 by cocothief

[aerotive]

In other news, it looks like FHS will be staying where it is. They are going to add on to the high school again and change how the school is entered. I am not completely sure how it is going to work yet but it will expand the capacity to 2400 students (10-12th) and will cost between 30-40 million. They might also build a 9th grade high school across Stone sometime after this first expansion is done. I don't know where all of these students are going to park. I am still for having a 2 high school system.

More information from the Times: Future FHS - Times

and more info from The Morning News: Future FHS - Morning News

Regarding parking students can always walk, carpool, or ride the bus.

[thewizard16]

Regarding parking students can always walk, carpool, or ride the bus.

Asking high school students in a low-density "urban" area to walk, carpool, or ride the bus is a hilarious idea. They'll park somewhere.

[Mith242]

Does anyone think some sort of parking deck would be needed? I can't say I've heard of a high school with one, but surely there's some around in some areas of the country. I think the bigger problem would be the cost of one. Perhaps have set up some parking elsewhere and run buses between the parking and campus? I think I read something about NWACC isn't going to use the old west campus. Since the school already owns the land seems like they'll either have to find some use for it or sell it.

[zman9810]

Here's a wild idea for the school district- sell the west campus and the land out at the northwest corner of town, then use that money to buy the Aspen Ridge property. Use it to build a new school on and I bet the university would come up with a good offer for the existing property. Lot's of details to work out but it would solve several problems at one time.

[cowbreath]

In other news, it looks like FHS will be staying where it is. They are going to add on to the high school again and change how the school is entered. I am not completely sure how it is going to work yet but it will expand the capacity to 2400 students (10-12th) and will cost between 30-40 million. They might also build a 9th grade high school across Stone sometime after this first expansion is done. I don't know where all of these students are going to park. I am still for having a 2 high school system.

More information from the Times: Future FHS - Times

and more info from The Morning News: Future FHS - Morning News

I agree, they should have 2 schools. It seems they swing from one bad idea to another. I don't care if they can't field a 7A or 700A football team. Either they should adjust the state sports classification system, or just find a way to add 8th and 9th grades to the high school. For recruiting purposes the students shouldn't worry about their classification. Smaller schools are proven to be better environments for students in some situations, and I think they should be concerned about the other 1000 students who don't play football and whose parents don't care.

I'm probably trivializing the situation, because other factors may be involved. Whatever happens, I think Bobby New has been shifty and appears like he is using ideas from the crazy idea factory.

[Mith242]

Here's a wild idea for the school district- sell the west campus and the land out at the northwest corner of town, then use that money to buy the Aspen Ridge property. Use it to build a new school on and I bet the university would come up with a good offer for the existing property. Lot's of details to work out but it would solve several problems at one time.

That's an interesting idea. It's still close to the area. I'm not sure how much land the Aspen Ridge property comprises though.

I agree, they should have 2 schools. It seems they swing from one bad idea to another. I don't care if they can't field a 7A or 700A football team. Either they should adjust the state sports classification system, or just find a way to add 8th and 9th grades to the high school. For recruiting purposes the students shouldn't worry about their classification. Smaller schools are proven to be better environments for students in some situations, and I think they should be concerned about the other 1000 students who don't play football and whose parents don't care.

I'm probably trivializing the situation, because other factors may be involved. Whatever happens, I think Bobby New has been shifty and appears like he is using ideas from the crazy idea factory.

Good points, and although it's certainly not to the degree of College sports, I still think sports play a larger role than what we might think. Whether that's right or not is a different discussion.

[Mith242]

While reading about the cuts the city is having to make I finally found out about an old topic. I had heard talk of a possible Smithsonian affiliated museum here. But I had no idea it's the Air Museum that's the one trying to attempt it. I admit I really thought it would be something a bit more 'well-rounded'. I'm not trying to put down the Air Museum, I've been to it and it's nice and interesting. But I guess I always envisioned a museum that was more broad and not quite so narrow in focus. But anyway since the Air Museum has had quite a bit of it's funds cut back it looks like the chances of it achieving it's affiliate status will be slim. At least for the immediate future.

[zman9810]

While reading about the cuts the city is having to make I finally found out about an old topic. I had heard talk of a possible Smithsonian affiliated museum here. But I had no idea it's the Air Museum that's the one trying to attempt it. I admit I really thought it would be something a bit more 'well-rounded'. I'm not trying to put down the Air Museum, I've been to it and it's nice and interesting. But I guess I always envisioned a museum that was more broad and not quite so narrow in focus. But anyway since the Air Museum has had quite a bit of it's funds cut back it looks like the chances of it achieving it's affiliate status will be slim. At least for the immediate future.

I remember they talked about putting a Smithsonian museum in the development there by the Depot on Dickson Street. Never heard anything else after the initial announcement though. After they made that lot paid parking I guess they decided to wait until things start looking up.

[Mith242]

I remember they talked about putting a Smithsonian museum in the development there by the Depot on Dickson Street. Never heard anything else after the initial announcement though. After they made that lot paid parking I guess they decided to wait until things start looking up.

Yeah I remember that. I think that's why I was expecting a separate museum. Not sure how the Air Museum ended up going for it. It would still seem to me that the Air Museum would need to branch out into some other areas before it could become an affiliate. Either way I have a feeling that they won't be granted that status when they go for it next year considering how much their funding got cut.

[Mith242]

There's talk of trying to convert an old Tyson facility that the city owns over in southeast Fayetteville into a sort of 'arts center'. I'm not sure how well the facility would convert to something like this but I still think it sounds like an interesting idea. I wish this idea was being considered for something closer to downtown, maybe even College Ave. But it at least makes use of that facility over there.

[zman9810]

There's talk of trying to convert an old Tyson facility that the city owns over in southeast Fayetteville into a sort of 'arts center'. I'm not sure how well the facility would convert to something like this but I still think it sounds like an interesting idea. I wish this idea was being considered for something closer to downtown, maybe even College Ave. But it at least makes use of that facility over there.

With the city having financial problems and that facility not being used for what it was bought for it should be sold. It's in a great location for the private sector to make something work there. The city got the land they needed for the road improvement and fire station- sell the rest and use the money to help cover the budget shortfall. I'm sure it costs big bucks to just maintain it and is a drain on city resources. Just an idea.

[Mith242]

With the city having financial problems and that facility not being used for what it was bought for it should be sold. It's in a great location for the private sector to make something work there. The city got the land they needed for the road improvement and fire station- sell the rest and use the money to help cover the budget shortfall. I'm sure it costs big bucks to just maintain it and is a drain on city resources. Just an idea.

Good point. While I do like the idea of an arts center of some sort, I wish it would come about in another location. I never really heard, are the people wanting to do this expecting the city to let them use this facility for free? Does it have to be a building the city owns? I suppose if that's the case then it probably won't happen in another location. Usually I really like supporting the arts, but I think I have to agree with you. Considering the current economic situation maybe the city should sell it and use the money for the budget shortcomings. It sounds like something that could end up wanting some city resources in the future as well. It's really hard to decide what to keep with the current budget problems.