Fayetteville, Arkansas

[zman9810]

For said survey, many of the respondants to the survey felt that the downtown area already receives enough attention/funding. There were also numerous comments about how much worse South Fayetteville was than the general downtown area, coupled with the fact that more people live in South Fayetteville than downtown, and naturally are going to want to see improvements in their part of town.

Personally, I think that the stagnation of the Ren. Tower and the development on Dickson has made people feel that either downtown doesn't need attention (since these projects aren't getting done, or in many cases, even past the planning stages), or that it already has enough focus that it's unnecessary for the city to try to promote any more growth there. Considering the quality of College Ave, I'm not surprised that people are worried abotu street quality, but I was a bit surprised at the number of people that called for planned and managed growth and didn't know much, if anything, about the 2025 plan.

I think that for some Fayetteville residents "planned and managed growth" have become code words for no-growth. They are also some of the more outspoken residents and so get attention from the planning commision and city council who can make it difficult for projects to move forward. Ruskin Heights and Woodstock both come to mind.

[Mith242]

Yeah the bad thing is that 'planned and managed growth' probably means different things to different people. But yeah I see the point about downtown. If the Renaissance really does eventually get done I think that would help some of my concerns.

[Mith242]

A number of merchants have said 2007 was one of their worst years either. Sales and customers are down yet rent keeps going up. Even worse is the fact there's a chance of the WAC possibly leaving. Maybe people are going to have to start focusing more on the downtown area after all.

[thewizard16]

Yeah the bad thing is that 'planned and managed growth' probably means different things to different people. But yeah I see the point about downtown. If the Renaissance really does eventually get done I think that would help some of my concerns.

Well, the survey did offer definitions for many of those categories, and I believe that "planned and managed growth" was defined as the promotion of city beauty and functionality through city council oversight and approval of new developments or some such thing... I can't recall the exact wording. The biggest weakness of many of these surveys (the citizen's survey included) is that most are defined as "whatever it means to you" to prevent the risk of bias in the wording of questions.

[aerotive]

A number of merchants have said 2007 was one of their worst years either. Sales and customers are down yet rent keeps going up. Even worse is the fact there's a chance of the WAC possibly leaving. Maybe people are going to have to start focusing more on the downtown area after all.

Ugh the WAC leaving would be a terrible blow. It's a halo kind of attraction--just having it gives the city prestige and overall desirability. The WAC, the public schools, Dickson St, and the U of A are the four pillars that make Fayetteville attractive.

Just as an example all four were a factor when P&G decided on Fayetteville, though WAC was still in the planning stages then.

[zman9810]

It looks like there is some movement on the Hwy 265 (Crossover Rd.) project. Mayor Coody has asked the state to widen it as originally agreed upon or let the city reduce it's contribution if it is only widened to Joyce Bvld. It's amazing that the rightaway and utility relocation costs only are now as much as the entire project was in 2004. It's also amazing that the state made the agreement and estimated the costs without mentioning that the rightaway and utlity relocation costs weren't included.

The city should have an answer in about 3 weeks Good job by Mayor Coody for following through on this.

NWA Times article

Edited January 11, 2008 by zman9810

[cocothief]

I don't remember if there is a thread for it or not, but work continues on the EJ Ball Plaza.

I was driving downtown this morning and I noticed that most of the windows on the north side have been switched from brown to blue glass. It really helps the looks of that building and make it look cleaner and more modern.

[cocothief]

I don't remember if there is a thread for it or not, but work continues on the EJ Ball Plaza.

I was driving downtown this morning and I noticed that most of the windows on the north side have been switched from brown to blue glass. It really helps the looks of that building and make it look cleaner and more modern.

[Mith242]

I don't remember if there is a thread for it or not, but work continues on the EJ Ball Plaza.

I was driving downtown this morning and I noticed that most of the windows on the north side have been switched from brown to blue glass. It really helps the looks of that building and make it look cleaner and more modern.

Thanks for the update, I sorta took a quick look at it when I was over checking out the 5 West Mountain construction. But I looked on the south side and didn't notice anything, so I missed out.

[mzweig]

Thanks for the update, I sorta took a quick look at it when I was over checking out the 5 West Mountain construction. But I looked on the south side and didn't notice anything, so I missed out.

I've been in there recently looking for office space. It is kind of a cool building, still a little scruffy. If my firm puts an office in Fayetteville I think we could end up there due to the pricing and configuration of the spaces. They already put new elevator cabs but will supposedly redo them again. They are also planning cafe space on the ground level.

M

[Mith242]

Thought I might mention this here. There's more talk again about the city changing 6th St to Martin Luther King Blvd. The city wanted to do this in the past but people complained about it. I admit I can see smaller business owners being mad because there's money out of their pocket to have to officially change their address. There was an editorial in today's Northwest Arkansas Times about how the city should pay since it is their decision. What bothers me though is that I sense a little irritation from some people and I truly wonder if it's just a money issue. I get the impression that if say they were going to name the street after someone else some people wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. It's that's the case, it's a real shame that some people still don't give him credit for what he's accomplished just because the color of his skin. I think it's important for the city to name the street after Martin Luther King. Even if it means the city has to help pick up the tab. I think people still associate the Ozarks as 'white man's land'. Fayetteville is known for being a rather progressive city and here's a good example to reaffirm that status. This may seem like a very minor thing, but to me this is still a symbol of Fayetteville and NWA continuing to grow. I think we need to send out the correct message to others that this isn't a 'white's only' area. To not do this would be a step backwards and send the wrong message to people who live here and other highly educated people who might consider moving here.

[mzweig]

Thought I might mention this here.

[Mith242]

Looks like 6th St will be renamed Martin Luther King Blvd starting next year. They City Council approved it last night. Along with moving a city law more in line with a state law. Sam's will now be able to open the liquor store part at 7 instead of 10.

[Stormcrow]

Looks like 6th St will be renamed Martin Luther King Blvd starting next year. They City Council approved it last night. Along with moving a city law more in line with a state law. Sam's will now be able to open the liquor store part at 7 instead of 10.

That's cool. Now lets hope there's some budget for beautication of some of it.

[cowbreath]

Looks like 6th St will be renamed Martin Luther King Blvd starting next year. They City Council approved it last night. Along with moving a city law more in line with a state law. Sam's will now be able to open the liquor store part at 7 instead of 10.

Personally, I'm not too happy about Sixth street renaming to be honest. It has nothing to do with race. I've spent as much time fascinated about the men and women involved in the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's as anyone else. However, I feel like the issue of race is watered down these days and prostituted out to movies like "Remember the Titans" (Disney) to get a feel good movie return. While this is nice and entertaining, the real issues that always bog the human race is why in the world would such a thing happen for people to despise another race, and the tackling of such psychology and circumstances is rare.

Also, the civil rights movement was 40-50 years ago when MLK was involved and we are just now honoring him with a street name. I've been all over the south, and about every single city has had a street named after MLK. It almost seems like it was a penalty to southern states for their involvement in segregation and as a result of the civil rights bill it would require all states and cities to name a boulevard for him. I say that it "seems" like a penalty because most of the streets seemed to be unattractive and sort of worn, which made me think the city was forced to do it and they gave the lesser street for it.

Anyways, how could anyone of the council possibly resist voting for it given the penalty of not doing it and the advantage of being able to say a few good words to earn a little political capital?

That is sort of my perspective to defend someone who might be against it for a different reason. However, I have no idea the real impact and affect on the psychology of the street change to the area. I can't say it will be negative, but most likely positive in some ways. However, the idea is still a little fuzzy or ceremonial to me. There has to be more to be had than just naming a street for someone.

[Mith242]

Personally, I'm not too happy about Sixth street renaming to be honest. It has nothing to do with race. I've spent as much time fascinated about the men and women involved in the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's as anyone else. However, I feel like the issue of race is watered down these days and prostituted out to movies like "Remember the Titans" (Disney) to get a feel good movie return. While this is nice and entertaining, the real issues that always bog the human race is why in the world would such a thing happen for people to despise another race, and the tackling of such psychology and circumstances is rare.

Also, the civil rights movement was 40-50 years ago when MLK was involved and we are just now honoring him with a street name. I've been all over the south, and about every single city has had a street named after MLK. It almost seems like it was a penalty to southern states for their involvement in segregation and as a result of the civil rights bill it would require all states and cities to name a boulevard for him. I say that it "seems" like a penalty because most of the streets seemed to be unattractive and sort of worn, which made me think the city was forced to do it and they gave the lesser street for it.

Anyways, how could anyone of the council possibly resist voting for it given the penalty of not doing it and the advantage of being able to say a few good words to earn a little political capital?

That is sort of my perspective to defend someone who might be against it for a different reason. However, I have no idea the real impact and affect on the psychology of the street change to the area. I can't say it will be negative, but most likely positive in some ways. However, the idea is still a little fuzzy or ceremonial to me. There has to be more to be had than just naming a street for someone.

From what I've seen overall areas that have a street named for him tend to be where there is an African American presence. In areas like parts of the Midwest and the Ozarks where there's typically few minorities you don't tend to see them. Just like there wasn't any here. I do realize it's quite a while since his death and perhaps somewhat 'odd' timing to do this. But I still think it's a nice subtle move. It wasn't that long ago that the few minorities in Fayetteville didn't always feel very welcome away from the campus. I think that might not have been an accurate perception but people still thought of the Ozarks as a 'white man's land'. I think for our city and metro to continue to grow we need more diversification, including the make up of the people living here. I realizing naming a street Martin Luther King Blvd seems perhaps a trivial move that changes nothing. But I think if it gives even a few minorities the feeling they're more welcome here then it's worth it. Whether we like it or not I think our area has certain stereotypes attached to it. I personally welcome any move that helps break down some of those perceptions, whether they be accurate or not.

[cocothief]

This renaming is completely idiotic in my opinion.

Its a few people who think "Oh, we'll look SO progressive if we do this, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CITY IN THE USA.

If they wanted to name it for someone, I wish they would have chosen someone local.

If they want to name it for an African American, why not Silas Hunt Boulevard?

At least then it wouldn't seem so cravenly PC and like the city council was trying too hard. Although I still wouldn't be in favor of renaming a street for those purposes, I could get behind a Silas Hunt Boulevard.

I opposed the renaming because I see no point other than the pretentions of a few "progressive liberals".

If the point is to honor someone who made a difference, I'd prefer it be someone who made a difference in our community. Fayetteville schools and the UA were integrated long before King.

If the point is to seem more multicultural, rename it for a local African American civil rights pioneer.

The closest we have is Silas Hunt.

This decision is absurd.

So much for Keeping Fayetteville Funky.

Lets just hope the MLK Boulevard doesn't turn into the worst ghetto like just about every single other MLK in the nation.

[mzweig]

This renaming is completely idiotic in my opinion.

Its a few people who think "Oh, we'll look SO progressive if we do this, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CITY IN THE USA.

If they wanted to name it for someone, I wish they would have chosen someone local.

If they want to name it for an African American, why not Silas Hunt Boulevard?

At least then it wouldn't seem so cravenly PC and like the city council was trying too hard. Although I still wouldn't be in favor of renaming a street for those purposes, I could get behind a Silas Hunt Boulevard.

I opposed the renaming because I see no point other than the pretentions of a few "progressive liberals".

If the point is to honor someone who made a difference, I'd prefer it be someone who made a difference in our community. Fayetteville schools and the UA were integrated long before King.

If the point is to seem more multicultural, rename it for a local African American civil rights pioneer.

The closest we have is Silas Hunt.

This decision is absurd.

So much for Keeping Fayetteville Funky.

Lets just hope the MLK Boulevard doesn't turn into the worst ghetto like just about every single other MLK in the nation.

Dang, Coco, you make some powerful arguments here.

[thewizard16]

Dang, Coco, you make some powerful arguments here.

I have to agree with him completely. Progressive means changing things for the better, or reforming things, and this does nothing. We now have a street named Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, just like every single other metropolitan area in the US. No one will blink, care, or notice. I agree that it would have made much more sense (and difference), at least to people living in the area, to honor a local figure if we're going to rename it at all. I'm not mad about the decision, I just thing it was pointless and I'll still forget and give directions using "Sixth Street" for years to come. I'll probably get quite a few people lost.

[Mith242]

I have no problems with a road being named Silas Hunt Blvd per se. Maybe it's because I grew up in southern Arkansas. But to me the name Martin Luther King stands out more. I guess I'm just looking at things from a different perspective. But what about the other people like me who didn't grow up here, for that matter most of the African American community that now lives here. I'd say most probably were originally from southern/eastern Arkansas or Louisiana. The name Silas Hunt probably isn't going to stand out as much as Martin Luther King. Perhaps the name won't mean as much to white Americans as it does to those in the African American community. One of the things I'd like to see is a more diverse city. Which would mean of course more people coming in from other areas. I just think a name like Martin Luther King will mean more to people in general. But maybe this will just have to be one of those things we'll have agree to disagree on.

[aerotive]

I'd much rather have a new street or public building be named for Dr. King rather than an existing, well-known street. Everybody knows 6th Street and to rename such a major thoroughfare is silly.

I plan to continue calling it 6th Street.

Perhaps next they'll install 20 or 30 speed tables to honor Gandhi.

Edited January 17, 2008 by aerotive

[cocothief]

The harsh reality is that for most people from larger metros, MLK will make them think they are in the ghetto.

Walk down to the corner of Malcom X Boulevard and MLK in south Dallas then tell me:

Do you find yourself thinking "Wow what a progressive and diverse forward-thinking community" or "Get me the hell out of here before I get shot and robbed!"

A Silas Hunt Boulevard could be more symbolic for the local community, and doesn't come with the unfortunate negative connotations that MLK Boulevard holds for most people from outside of NWA.

Of course, I get the feeling most of the Fayetteville City Council hasn't spent much time outside of NWA.

This, to me, is like naming College Avenue "Harry Hines Blvd" (the notorious hooker/drug strip in Dallas) or 8-Mile Rd.

Regardless of the intent, which I believe is good, I think we could have done a lot better.

[cowbreath]

From what I've seen overall areas that have a street named for him tend to be where there is an African American presence. In areas like parts of the Midwest and the Ozarks where there's typically few minorities you don't tend to see them. Just like there wasn't any here. I do realize it's quite a while since his death and perhaps somewhat 'odd' timing to do this. But I still think it's a nice subtle move. It wasn't that long ago that the few minorities in Fayetteville didn't always feel very welcome away from the campus. I think that might not have been an accurate perception but people still thought of the Ozarks as a 'white man's land'. I think for our city and metro to continue to grow we need more diversification, including the make up of the people living here. I realizing naming a street Martin Luther King Blvd seems perhaps a trivial move that changes nothing. But I think if it gives even a few minorities the feeling they're more welcome here then it's worth it. Whether we like it or not I think our area has certain stereotypes attached to it. I personally welcome any move that helps break down some of those perceptions, whether they be accurate or not.

I can see your point where the presense of the street (especially as people pass the street name on the I-540 exit sign) will make black people feel more comfortable. That is fine by me. However, it reminds me of what Malcolm X said in his biography about if you want to find the black area of a city then you go look for the public school named after Lincoln.

As with other people I can still side with others that the intention of the change is for being progressive, but it reflects bad on us because every other town has already done it (not all but you know what I mean). Sixth street is definitely the best street available for a name change.

If they really wanted to make an impact or move and shake people, they could request the change for Dickson St. instead (wow what a mess that would be), and that would be a statement.

I like the idea of naming the street for other African Americans or civil rights heros who are more local. Not having taken Arkansas history, I didn't learn about Isaac Murphy until recently, but he was the only representative to vote against (eventually the only one) Arkansas' secession from the union, was against slavery which caused his wife's father to disown her, and was our first governor after the war ended in arkansas.

Edited January 17, 2008 by cowbreath

[Mith242]

I can see your point where the presense of the street (especially as people pass the street name on the I-540 exit sign) will make black people feel more comfortable. That is fine by me. However, it reminds me of what Malcolm X said in his biography about if you want to find the black area of a city then you go look for the public school named after Lincoln.

As with other people I can still side with others that the intention of the change is for being progressive, but it reflects bad on us because every other town has already done it (not all but you know what I mean). Sixth street is definitely the best street available for a name change.

If they really wanted to make an impact or move and shake people, they could request the change for Dickson St. instead (wow what a mess that would be), and that would be a statement.

I like the idea of naming the street for other African Americans or civil rights heroes who are more local. Not having taken Arkansas history, I didn't learn about Isaac Murphy until recently, but he was the only representative to vote against (eventually the only one) secession from the union, was against slavery which caused his wife's father to disown her, and was our first governor after the war ended in Arkansas.

I do see your points as well. It is a shame that it's taken this long for a street to be renamed like this. I do like that they at least picked a street like 6th and not picked some small residential street that no one hardly drives on. I also wouldn't have any other problem with renaming other streets after more local civil rights heroes either. I never was real big on numbered streets like 6th anyway. While a number of historic figures are named with streets there are others that aren't. I guess the only downside to renaming a bunch of streets is the fact that it causes people and businesses to have to change their address and any fees along with that.

[zman9810]

This has been a rather low key discussion. I expected it to be more spirited like the debates about the crosses and illegal immigration.

My two cents- the name change does seem to be a little too politically correct and mostly about image, both about the city's image and the councilmen's image. What politician wants to be seen voting against a memorial to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. , especially right around the time of his birthday? If they hadn't passed it the news might have made into every regional and possibly national media. Hopefully everyone's heart is in the right place.

Sixth Street is a lot easier to say though.....