Fayetteville, Arkansas

[CellarDoor135]

Thought this was interesting:

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2008/04/1...coming-our-way/

[CentralArkansas]

It's not surprising that Fayetteville was described as "Fayetteville and not Arkansas". The city of Fayetteville itself has the image as being different from the rest of the state. It is known as a "liberal" (I hate that word) enclave in a mostly conservative state. Having grown up in a rural area of the state and moving to the city, I have experienced first hand the disdain that the free thinking ways of Fayetteville has for other parts of the state. It's amazing to me the ignorance that some show in thinking that the majority of people in Fayetteville are either gay or somehow a degenerate.

With the influx of people from other areas of the country NWA as a whole has become a more cosmopolitan region. I realize that some people don't like the term "cosmopolitan" but if you look at the definition it is indeed what NWA has become. In many ways it has become more diversified than the rest of the state and so it's not surprising it would be adverstised as such.

I would dispute the fact that NWA is more diversified than the rest of the state. In fact, I would say the opposite is closer to being true.

Look, I love NWA (I choose to live here), but it infuriates me when I see this attitude up here.

[Sammy00]

It depends on what you mean by diversified, but I am from Central Arkansas, and there is absolutely no dening that Fayettevillie is different from the rest of the state in some ways.

The green movement and increasingly liberal (I love that word ) viewpoints is certainly a start...

[greenblogger]

First, I really like this blog. We moved here earlier this year from Seattle, Washington for work, and this has been a great forum to get the "insider" track on what's happening locally, such as eats, entertainment, housing, etc. without feeling I'm reading an ad.

As an outsider just moving here, hearing Fayetteville describing itself as "Fayetteville and not Arkansas" in that video is insulting and embarrassing to me, even though we haven't traveled anywhere else in the state outside of a weekend 10 to 20 mile sightseeing drive to the north. All I can say is that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And, it reinforces what outsiders think of the entire state, which based on the ribbing I get from friends back home is not all that good.

Chambers of Commerce copywriters are generally not that devisive or stupid. I hope they shift away from tossing insults at their neighbors.

Edited June 24, 2008 by greenblogger

[strmchsr77]

Thought this was interesting:

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2008/04/1...coming-our-way/

Thanks for that article Cellar. I was wondering when it would be our turn. They just added Tulsa over the past few weeks. So now they have LR, OKC, Tulsa, KC/Topeka, and St Louis in our area. Pretty impressive if the Fayetteville area is next.

[CentralArkansas]

It depends on what you mean by diversified, but I am from Central Arkansas, and there is absolutely no dening that Fayettevillie is different from the rest of the state in some ways.

The green movement and increasingly liberal (I love that word ) viewpoints is certainly a start...

And there is no denying that Little Rock is different from the rest of the state in not some, but MOST ways. It's the only place in the state that even remotely resembles an urban core, and has a very robust, diversified economy. It is located in THE ONLY COUNTY IN THE STATE WITH AN AVERAGE SALARY HIGHER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

Also, you call Fayetteville "liberal" yet it sits in decidedly the most conservative portion of the state. If you want "green" and "liberal," try driving around the Heights or Hillcrest areas in Little Rock. They'll match you hippee for hippee and then some.

If ANYONE should be making the claim that it's "not Arkansas, but ______," it should be Little Rock. But, no one there would think of such a thing. Why? Because people in LR are proud of being Arkansans.

It's insulting to me that anyone would say that, and remember, I choose to live in NWA after having lived in LR. Just look at greenblogger's comments, a new Arkansan that has barely stepped foot outside of Fayetteville, to see how it makes the town look.

Edited June 24, 2008 by CentralArkansas

[zman9810]

I'll try to make this a better thought out post.

I think we can all agree that Arkansas has a negative image based on the backwards hillbilly stereotype. I think this image is detrimental to the economic development of the state as a whole and since I live in NWA I'm concerned about how it affects this area the most. It's not a question of whether it is deserved or not (although in many ways I believe it is), it's a question of what to do about it.

While the video attempt to differentiate Fayetteville and NWA from the stereotype was ill-advised it is understandable why it was done. With the influx of people from other areas of the country NWA has become more diverse, if not racially at least in the backgrounds of the people living here. To promote this fact is to possbily help draw the skilled professionals that our local economy needs in order to grow and prosper. I guess when it comes down to my pride or my pocket book my pocketbook always wins.

I have grown to dislike the label "liberal" because the right wingers have managed to make it a mostly negative word for the general public in the media. And since this isn't a political discussion I'll leave it at that.

[CentralArkansas]

I'll try to make this a better thought out post.

I think we can all agree that Arkansas has a negative image based on the backwards hillbilly stereotype. I think this image is detrimental to the economic development of the state as a whole and since I live in NWA I'm concerned about how it affects this area the most. It's not a question of whether it is deserved or not (although in many ways I believe it is), it's a question of what to do about it.

While the video attempt to differentiate Fayetteville and NWA from the stereotype was ill-advised it is understandable why it was done. With the influx of people from other areas of the country NWA has become more diverse, if not racially at least in the backgrounds of the people living here. To promote this fact is to possbily help draw the skilled professionals that our local economy needs in order to grow and prosper. I guess when it comes down to my pride or my pocket book my pocketbook always wins.

I have grown to dislike the label "liberal" because the right wingers have managed to make it a mostly negative word for the general public in the media. And since this isn't a political discussion I'll leave it at that.

Maybe if people would quit trying to separate themselves from the Arkansas "image" but instead say, "look where I live, it's great, and this is what Arkansas is REALLY like" things would begin to change.

Until then, we are just running in circles.

[jdevers]

Chambers of Commerce copywriters are generally not that devisive or stupid. I hope they shift away from tossing insults at their neighbors.

Not sure what you mean here, but I can assure you that Fayetteville's chamber of commerce had absolutely nothing to do with this article other than a heads up that they were publishing it.

[Mith242]

The area has been looking for ways to try to distance itself from the stereotypes of the Ozarks and Arkansas for a while now. I remember this coming up several years ago, because it mad people in other parts of the state mad. Unfortunately though there are still some bad stereotypes for Arkansas and also the Ozarks. It won't make us any friends in the rest of the state but I think it's probably a good move for the metro. How many have turned down jobs to work here without even stepping foot here because of all the negative stereotypes they've heard? And as it's been pointed out previously, the area is rather different than the rest of the state. I'm not saying that as a good or bad thing, it's just the way it is.

Thought this was interesting:

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2008/04/1...coming-our-way/

Cool, I was worried that NWA might be a big down the list of areas they might do in the near future. Overall they seem to be focusing on larger cities and metros.

[Mith242]

Now that I've read some of the other posts about Fayetteville and the metro trying to distance themselves from the rest of the state. Yeah I know it doesn't look for and certainly not going to win us any friends in the rest of the state. But seriously this area of the state is different from the rest. It's the only part of the state with some Midwestern influences. While there still certainly is some Southern influences they don't seem to be as prevalent as the rest of the state. Little Rock is different in it's own right too. But it's also centrally located and in a number of ways a reflection of the state. I think NWA has always been a bit isolated to the rest of the state. The area trying to sit up a separate identity doesn't bother me. I wouldn't suggest the area be overly aggressive in it either though. Better to find some sort of new identity to identify with than to simply try to suggest we aren't with the rest of the state.

[Mith242]

Now to get to some other news. One thing I've heard a little about recently is that the city is slowly getting closer to widening part of Garland. Sounds like some people though aren't happy about it being a 5 lane road with bike lanes. There's been talk about widening Garland for at least a decade. I guess the problem is that people were expecting it to only be widened to 3 lanes.

[CentralArkansas]

Now that I've read some of the other posts about Fayetteville and the metro trying to distance themselves from the rest of the state. Yeah I know it doesn't look for and certainly not going to win us any friends in the rest of the state. But seriously this area of the state is different from the rest. It's the only part of the state with some Midwestern influences. While there still certainly is some Southern influences they don't seem to be as prevalent as the rest of the state. Little Rock is different in it's own right too. But it's also centrally located and in a number of ways a reflection of the state. I think NWA has always been a bit isolated to the rest of the state. The area trying to sit up a separate identity doesn't bother me. I wouldn't suggest the area be overly aggressive in it either though. Better to find some sort of new identity to identify with than to simply try to suggest we aren't with the rest of the state.

You need to realize those people you aren't "making friends" with live in your backyard. Both people (me and the other) that posted on this subject live in NWA. So, you're not only alienating the rest of the state but you are illustrating how ridiculous this idea is by seeing people that live here embarrassed by it. I'm glad this attitude is in the minority up here, because it's downright ridiculous. Of course it's different from the rest of the state, as EVERY area is different. But like I said earlier, if anyone should be trying to distance themselves it's LR distancing themselves from NWA and everyone else, not the other way around.

This thought somehow think Midwestern = desirable perplexes me. I would say it's the exact opposite. The midwest to the rest of the country makes people think of vast, boring fly-over country they see between flights to NYC and LA. Southern makes people think of warm weather, pretty women, friendly people, and growing cities. Besides, who would you rather be associated with? Oklahoma? Kansas? Missouri? I think you'll find those states (excepting maybe Missouri) aren't exactly viewed favorably in the rest of the country.

I love this area and the people in it, but some people need an old-fashioned reality check. Just like any area this place has it's problems. Infrastructure here is terrible, everything is extremely spread out, and vacancy rates for commercial and residential areas are out of this world. It's not exactly the flawless, utopia area that people think it is.

NWA will only hurt itself with attitudes like this. If we ever want to fix our infrastructure, I would suggest you put these attitudes to bed so we don't alienate ourselves from the rest of the state. That money still goes through Little Rock and always will, and the people that decide it aren't ever going to come strictly from NWA.

Edited June 27, 2008 by CentralArkansas

[thewizard16]

You need to realize those people you aren't "making friends" with live in your backyard. Both people (me and the other) that posted on this subject live in NWA. So, you're not only alienating the rest of the state but you are illustrating how ridiculous this idea is by seeing people that live here embarrassed by it. I'm glad this attitude is in the minority up here, because it's downright ridiculous. Of course it's different from the rest of the state, as EVERY area is different. But like I said earlier, if anyone should be trying to distance themselves it's LR distancing themselves from NWA and everyone else, not the other way around.

This thought somehow think Midwestern = desirable perplexes me. I would say it's the exact opposite. The midwest to the rest of the country makes people think of vast, boring fly-over country they see between flights to NYC and LA. Southern makes people think of warm weather, pretty women, friendly people, and growing cities. Besides, who would you rather be associated with? Oklahoma? Kansas? Missouri? I think you'll find those states (excepting maybe Missouri) aren't exactly viewed favorably in the rest of the country.

I love this area and the people in it, but some people need an old-fashioned reality check. Just like any area this place has it's problems. Infrastructure here is terrible, everything is extremely spread out, and vacancy rates for commercial and residential areas are out of this world. It's not exactly the flawless, utopia area that people think it is.

NWA will only hurt itself with attitudes like this. If we ever want to fix our infrastructure, I would suggest you put these attitudes to bed so we don't alienate ourselves from the rest of the state. That money still goes through Little Rock and always will, and the people that decide it aren't ever going to come strictly from NWA.

Infrastructure always gets strained in periods of significant new growth. Been to Tulsa or Des Moines in a while? Anyway, I think NWA disconnecting itself from the state is a negative purely for the legislative and financial reasons you mentioned. I don't agree with your view that Little Rock is somehow different from whatever we're defining as "Arkansas" and that NWA is not, since Little Rock is about the only thing that people that have never been to Arkansas can even relate with the state name (other than the Clintons, anyway). NWA often gets viewed as it's own entity due to it's location and the broad mix of people here (once again, not necessarily racially, but people are from all over the place). I strongly disagree with your views on the midwest, since the Midwest is often viewed pretty favorably, being the "breadbasket" and home to a large portion of our countries agriculture and "hard working" farmers, and doesn't have the same stereotypes that the South used to (and among some, unfortunately, still) be associated with. I do think you're erring a little on the insecure side in your defense of Arkansas by bashing everything that's near us that isn't Arkansas, but pointing out that this attitude is just as foolish as the NWA attitude that we're "better" than Arkansas would be a bit too simple.

[hogwash]

Infrastructure always gets strained in periods of significant new growth. Been to Tulsa or Des Moines in a while? Anyway, I think NWA disconnecting itself from the state is a negative purely for the legislative and financial reasons you mentioned. I don't agree with your view that Little Rock is somehow different from whatever we're defining as "Arkansas" and that NWA is not, since Little Rock is about the only thing that people that have never been to Arkansas can even relate with the state name (other than the Clintons, anyway). NWA often gets viewed as it's own entity due to it's location and the broad mix of people here (once again, not necessarily racially, but people are from all over the place). I strongly disagree with your views on the midwest, since the Midwest is often viewed pretty favorably, being the "breadbasket" and home to a large portion of our countries agriculture and "hard working" farmers, and doesn't have the same stereotypes that the South used to (and among some, unfortunately, still) be associated with. I do think you're erring a little on the insecure side in your defense of Arkansas by bashing everything that's near us that isn't Arkansas, but pointing out that this attitude is just as foolish as the NWA attitude that we're "better" than Arkansas would be a bit too simple.

You shouldn't think everyone has the same associations that you do. If this is a NWA thing and not Fayetteville, NWA screams "Arkansas" to me. When I think of NWA, chickens and Wal-mart come to mind. I think of good ole' country boy CEO's, confederate statues and the like. To be honest, its a long while before I think of things that aren't compatible with the Arkansas stereotype. But, I didn't work for a multinational corporation and didn't have many that did within my social circle when I was up there.

I'd say people associate Wal-mart with Arkansas as much as anything, and Wal-mart's always the first thing people mention about NWA.

I agree though that Fayetteville is the anomaly, but so are many college towns...

[Mith242]

You need to realize those people you aren't "making friends" with live in your backyard. Both people (me and the other) that posted on this subject live in NWA. So, you're not only alienating the rest of the state but you are illustrating how ridiculous this idea is by seeing people that live here embarrassed by it. I'm glad this attitude is in the minority up here, because it's downright ridiculous. Of course it's different from the rest of the state, as EVERY area is different. But like I said earlier, if anyone should be trying to distance themselves it's LR distancing themselves from NWA and everyone else, not the other way around.

This thought somehow think Midwestern = desirable perplexes me. I would say it's the exact opposite. The midwest to the rest of the country makes people think of vast, boring fly-over country they see between flights to NYC and LA. Southern makes people think of warm weather, pretty women, friendly people, and growing cities. Besides, who would you rather be associated with? Oklahoma? Kansas? Missouri? I think you'll find those states (excepting maybe Missouri) aren't exactly viewed favorably in the rest of the country.

I love this area and the people in it, but some people need an old-fashioned reality check. Just like any area this place has it's problems. Infrastructure here is terrible, everything is extremely spread out, and vacancy rates for commercial and residential areas are out of this world. It's not exactly the flawless, utopia area that people think it is.

NWA will only hurt itself with attitudes like this. If we ever want to fix our infrastructure, I would suggest you put these attitudes to bed so we don't alienate ourselves from the rest of the state. That money still goes through Little Rock and always will, and the people that decide it aren't ever going to come strictly from NWA.

I see where you're coming from, well except for the Midwestern thing. I wasn't trying to say Midwestern = desirable. I was simply stating this area of the state is different in ways than the rest of the state. One aspect is that it has some Midwestern influences and not strictly Southern as the rest of the state is. A number of people from the area don't go to Little Rock. If they go to a larger city they head west to Tulsa or north to Kansas City. But as you said Little Rock is the capital and our tax money has to go there and our funds have to come through there.

[bubba72704]

I see where you're coming from, well except for the Midwestern thing. I wasn't trying to say Midwestern = desirable. I was simply stating this area of the state is different in ways than the rest of the state. One aspect is that it has some Midwestern influences and not strictly Southern as the rest of the state is. A number of people from the area don't go to Little Rock. If they go to a larger city they head west to Tulsa or north to Kansas City. But as you said Little Rock is the capital and our tax money has to go there and our funds have to come through there.

I agree with Mith.... the demographics of NWA more closely resemble the midwest than the rest of the state. Especially in comparing with Little Rock & points south.

[strmchsr77]

I agree with Mith.... the demographics of NWA more closely resemble the midwest than the rest of the state. Especially in comparing with Little Rock & points south.

I agree as well. Everything from the climate to the people here are different than the rest of the state. I have never considered the northern portions of Arkansas as part of the south. South central or midwestern is the term I use. I am not saying that LR is bad or good. It is just different up here in NWA.

[zman9810]

I see where you're coming from, well except for the Midwestern thing. I wasn't trying to say Midwestern = desirable. I was simply stating this area of the state is different in ways than the rest of the state. One aspect is that it has some Midwestern influences and not strictly Southern as the rest of the state is. A number of people from the area don't go to Little Rock. If they go to a larger city they head west to Tulsa or north to Kansas City. But as you said Little Rock is the capital and our tax money has to go there and our funds have to come through there.

Before this turns into a LR vs. NWA debate I'd like to point out that the two metros together are the growth areas of the state and have provided most of the new jobs over the past decade of so. The real tussle is between the urbanized areas of the state and the rural areas. State highway funding is a prime example- money is being spent in rural areas that have less presssing needs than NWA or LR because of the funding formula. The resistance to school consolidation is another example of rural wishes causing inefficent use of tax money.

The state needs NWA's taxes as much as NWA needs state funding so the idea that NWA had better be nice or face financial retaliation doesn't work.

[Mith242]

Before this turns into a LR vs. NWA debate I'd like to point out that the two metros together are the growth areas of the state and have provided most of the new jobs over the past decade of so. The real tussle is between the urbanized areas of the state and the rural areas. State highway funding is a prime example- money is being spent in rural areas that have less pressing needs than NWA or LR because of the funding formula. The resistance to school consolidation is another example of rural wishes causing inefficient use of tax money.

The state needs NWA's taxes as much as NWA needs state funding so the idea that NWA had better be nice or face financial retaliation doesn't work.

Very good. I had almost thought about mentioning something along these lines. Like you said, it would be very beneficial for Little Rock and NWA to work together and try to create a new identity and agenda for the state. A lot of emphasis has always been placed on rural areas. Although to be honest Arkansas is mostly a rural state. Even though Little Rock has dominated the urban landscape of Arkansas. Most of the emphasis has still been on the rural aspects of the state. With two fast growing urban areas it's a good chance to try to get something going between the two. Both metros have their differences of course. But there's reason they can't both work together and make some changes to how the state is.

[masons_dad1]

Just my 2 cents:

I can understand both sides of the "Fayetteville and not Arkansas" debate. While Fayetteville is an up-and-coming urban mecca in its own right, it still lies in the shadow of Little Rock. After all, no matter how much arts, culture and live music, or how much job diversity, racial diversity and range of demographics Fayetteville has or may have in the future, Little Rock is seen as the center of all these things in Arkansas (albeit, minus Razorbacks sports). Maybe not from the perspective of some people living in NWA, but in general.

I can also understand why, knowing this, Fayetteville wants to distance itself from the state capitol which is only possible by distancing itself from the rest of the state. Unfortunately, Fayetteville faces even bigger challenges to its urban supremacy from Tulsa in the west and KC in the north. Maybe it would be better for Fayetteville to accept its position as younger sibling to Little Rock rather than be seen as an even smaller city in the shadows of Tulsa and KC.

I like Fayetteville because its a city with a small town feel and some big city offerings, but if I was looking for a city that had everything one could want in a big city with plenty of small-town offerings nearby then Little Rock is the only option in Arkansas.

[Mith242]

Just my 2 cents:

I can understand both sides of the "Fayetteville and not Arkansas" debate. While Fayetteville is an up-and-coming urban mecca in its own right, it still lies in the shadow of Little Rock. After all, no matter how much arts, culture and live music, or how much job diversity, racial diversity and range of demographics Fayetteville has or may have in the future, Little Rock is seen as the center of all these things in Arkansas (albeit, minus Razorbacks sports). Maybe not from the perspective of some people living in NWA, but in general.

I can also understand why, knowing this, Fayetteville wants to distance itself from the state capitol which is only possible by distancing itself from the rest of the state. Unfortunately, Fayetteville faces even bigger challenges to its urban supremacy from Tulsa in the west and KC in the north. Maybe it would be better for Fayetteville to accept its position as younger sibling to Little Rock rather than be seen as an even smaller city in the shadows of Tulsa and KC.

I like Fayetteville because its a city with a small town feel and some big city offerings, but if I was looking for a city that had everything one could want in a big city with plenty of small-town offerings nearby then Little Rock is the only option in Arkansas.

Interesting points. It's going to be a while before any city in NWA is going to have an urban feel to anything like Little Rock. And in a lot of ways it seems to be what most people in the area want. Personally I'd like a bit more of an urban aspect, but most seem to want that more suburban feel. It's just always going to be hard to compare us to any of the other metros in the region. Most metros tend to be a bit more centralized and have a distinct core. I don't think that's going to really happen here.

[Mith242]

Apparently we have a new Urban Forester. I didn't realize we had been looking for another one for a while now. Our last one left in January.

[Mith242]

Apparently the decision has been made by Washington County officials to keep things where they are instead of trying to move things to the outskirts of Fayetteville. Sounds like they'll go ahead and purchase the Terminella Bldg and also try to go for the parking garage with a skybridge over College Ave.

[zman9810]

Apparently the decision has been made by Washington County officials to keep things where they are instead of trying to move things to the outskirts of Fayetteville. Sounds like they'll go ahead and purchase the Terminella Bldg and also try to go for the parking garage with a skybridge over College Ave.

That's great news for downtown and to expand on your post a little- the decision was a classic case of how government should work. The Quorum Court members and County Judge Hunton came to a compromise that will serve the county as a whole best. Judge Hunton gave up his idea of a complex in the south part of town and the court gave up the idea of buying the Fulbright Building. The new plan to buy the Terminella Building, build a parking deck with connecting skybridge and renovating the interior of the historic county courthouse is a winner all the way around.

The plan to work with St. Pauls Episcopal Church seems like a good idea as it will benefit both and both are safe bets to live up to their end of a business deal. It was good to find out that the Church was willing to work with the county to make a parking deck possible. As to the concerns of a deck being a "monolithic structure" it can be built with commercial space along the street level and disguised to look more like a attractive office building. The Dover Kohl plans call for this type of structure along this stretch of College Ave. There is obviously a need for parking now and in the future in this area as the county's own study shows.

NWA Times article