Should Little Rock and North Little Rock merge?

[skirby]

I think a consolidated Pulaski County would not only increase the redevelopment of the urban core but also the present towns in the area. It would be cheaper for a company to expand in Pulaski County if all regulations were the same. If a developer only had to go to one place to get permits to build in the north, south, east, west or center of the area it would enhance development. Each area could have a ward or district manager to oversee their daily operations.

[EJC]

Cozmosis,

You've named two drawbacks, which I think are tenuous at best regarding a county-wide consolidated goverment (I would say Jacksonville is already lost in the mix, and in a consolidated goverment, all corners of the county would have representation). What benefits are there to the current fragmentation? Seriously, I can't think of any other than heritage.

[cozmosis]

More to the point, fragmentation actually creates MORE beauracracy rather than less....since we now have duplicative agencies. Merging these entities not only could create one unit to move the collective city in one direction, but would reduce staff positions and lower taxpayer burden.

[Aporkalypse]

Fragmentation causes more beauracracy only if someone is having to deal with multiple jurisdictions at the same time. But regardless of that, I'm not opposed to streamlining certain areas of local & county government. However, not everything benefits by being operated by a massive organization.

Take routine police services for one. Go to Maumelle -- community of 15,000 -- and call the police. See how quickly they respond and what sort or priority your needs are to them. Now, go to Sherwood (20k)... Jacksonville (30k)... North Little Rock (60k)... Little Rock (180k). Do you think the level of customer/citizen service increases as the size of the police organizations increase? I don't. And I don't think it would improve with a police department for a city/county of 361k.

[Architect]

Fragmentation causes more beauracracy only if someone is having to deal with multiple jurisdictions at the same time. But regardless of that, I'm not opposed to streamlining certain areas of local & county government. However, not everything benefits by being operated by a massive organization.

Take routine police services for one. Go to Maumelle -- community of 15,000 -- and call the police. See how quickly they respond and what sort or priority your needs are to them. Now, go to Sherwood (20k)... Jacksonville (30k)... North Little Rock (60k)... Little Rock (180k). Do you think the level of customer/citizen service increases as the size of the police organizations increase? I don't. And I don't think it would improve with a police department for a city/county of 361k.

[LRU1967]

I think the primary point everybody is making is regarding the efficiency of a consolidated government without the duplication of administration, etc., not about quality of service, which is certainly debatable. Certainly you are entitled to your opinion - but I think that practically there is little to stand on in support of maintaining the status quo. Very, very little.

[EJC]

I think the best reason for maintaining the status quo is called self determination. I suspect that those who advocate consolidation have never lived in North Little Rock. If you had lived there you'd know how proud NLR residents are of their city. For the most part they don't dislike LR they just think their city is a better place to live.

[LRU1967]

I have absolutely zero doubt that people in LR feel that their city is a better place to live too...by far. That's why they choose to live there just as those in NLR make their choice. That has little to do with the argument that the two cities could perform much better in many many areas if they worked together. And that there would be a reduced tax burden on both if some of the redundant administration were to be eliminated.

[EJC]

The LR/NLR consolidation discussion is fine as an academic argument but that's all it is. It's been amusing to read all the posts from Non-NLR residents advocating consolidation and totally leaving out the human factor.

[hogwash]

I feel like the human factor is somewhat temporal. It might not be highly popular at first, but people would adjust. Issues of gross inefficiencies won't go away.

It would be interesting to conduct a survey among those people living in Nashville-Davidson County how they feel about the arrangement. Its been over 40 years since the two merged.

I add my two cents because I someday plan on living in LR. It may be 7-10 years down the road. My parents live in Benton and my wife's folks live in Hot Springs. I want my future kids to be close to their grandparents and I want to be able to take care of my in-laws or my parents.

[Architect]

I feel like the human factor is somewhat temporal. It might not be highly popular at first, but people would adjust. Issues of gross inefficiencies won't go away.

It would be interesting to conduct a survey among those people living in Nashville-Davidson County how they feel about the arrangement. Its been over 40 years since the two merged.

I add my two cents because I someday plan on living in LR. It may be 7-10 years down the road. My parents live in Benton and my wife's folks live in Hot Springs. I want my future kids to be close to their grandparents and I want to be able to take care of my in-laws or my parents.

[Aporkalypse]

The LR/NLR consolidation discussion is fine as an academic argument but that's all it is. It's been amusing to read all the posts from Non-NLR residents advocating consolidation and totally leaving out the human factor.

[cozmosis]

Won't happen? Would anyone have ever guessed that Helena and West Helena would merge, particularly in light of the racial issues?

[LRU1967]

The cities of Helena and West Helena were in a completely different situation than Little Rock, North Little Rock & Pulaski County are in now. Granted, times could change... But as it is, I don't think you can compare the two scenarios.

As for consolidation, I guess Stephens is chipping away at his goal one organization at a time. I saw in the ADG the merger of the Little Rock and North Little Rock Boys & Girls Clubs.

[Architect]

Stephens couldn't get three games at War Memorial which should have been easier than convincing NLR citizens to vote yes on merging with LR. I too have lived on both sides of the river. 26 years in NLR as an adult but growing up in LR and living here now. Having lived in both cities I prefer LR. The argument that consolidation would save money is probably true, but would the average NLR resident see any decrease in his taxes? not likely. So where's the advantage for him? The inefficiencies that might be eliminated are pie in the sky, similiar to politicians vowing to eliminate "waste, fraud and abuse" as a means to save money.

[LRU1967]

Um....okay. The fundamental question still remains - what advantage is there to remaining separate?

[skirby]

Let me answer your question with a question. If you lived in NLR and had observed the problems south of the river would you want to sign over running your city to LR voters?

On a separate issue concerning NLR; some years ago there was an generating plant on Lynch Drive owned, I believe, by AP&L. I think it was gas fired or maybe oil. It was shut down and as far as I know it's still there. There was talk that NLR would buy it but nothing came of that. Does anybody know the circumstances and if the plant is still there or if it was dismantled.

[Aporkalypse]

Let me answer your question with a question. If you lived in NLR and had observed the problems south of the river would you want to sign over running your city to LR voters?

On a separate issue concerning NLR; some years ago there was an generating plant on Lynch Drive owned, I believe, by AP&L. I think it was gas fired or maybe oil. It was shut down and as far as I know it's still there. There was talk that NLR would buy it but nothing came of that. Does anybody know the circumstances and if the plant is still there or if it was dismantled.

[Architect]

Let me answer your question with a question. If you lived in NLR and had observed the problems south of the river would you want to sign over running your city to LR voters?

On a separate issue concerning NLR; some years ago there was an generating plant on Lynch Drive owned, I believe, by AP&L. I think it was gas fired or maybe oil. It was shut down and as far as I know it's still there. There was talk that NLR would buy it but nothing came of that. Does anybody know the circumstances and if the plant is still there or if it was dismantled.

[LRU1967]

Well, other than the flap about the out-of-control commission, to what problems to you refer? And might I add, would I really think there are no problems on the north shore? Come on....

[/quote

Little Rock's city manager form of government is a major problem in my opinion. The NLR mayor/council form is more responsive and results in stonger leadership.

The NLR School District doesn't have the turmoil of the LR district with it's constant court dates and school board dissension.

Crime in LR with it's understaffed police department.

Minor things such as twice a week trash pickup and the leaf vacuum program that LR doesn't have.

And yes the A&P "flap" which isn't exactly an example of good government.

Of course there are problems in NLR but how would merger with LR solve them?

[LRU1967]

I think there are just as many problems on each side of the river as the other.

NLR's basically lost population slowly over the last 20 years. The electricity issue is a major problem. It has the same gang issue as LR and aging city housing projects are a constant headache.

[Aporkalypse]

Little Rock's city manager form of government is a major problem in my opinion. The NLR mayor/council form is more responsive and results in stonger leadership.

The NLR School District doesn't have the turmoil of the LR district with it's constant court dates and school board dissension.

Crime in LR with it's understaffed police department.

Minor things such as twice a week trash pickup and the leaf vacuum program that LR doesn't have.

And yes the A&P "flap" which isn't exactly an example of good government.

Of course there are problems in NLR but how would merger with LR solve them?

[Architect]

All Pulaski Co schools were under federal desegregation. While NLR doesn't have as many "bad press" issues, they also don't have the quality of schools like Central and Horace Mann.

That said, uniting the county under one government, or just NLR and LR, doesn't mean you have to unite the school districts. I would actually prefer NOT to.

I agree about the city manager form of gov't. One would assume in a unified government that would be out the window.

Crime in NLR is scarcely better than that in LR. In all fairness in both cities it's largely limited to older decaying neighborhoods near downtown. If you look at the crime rankings LR makes it's usually considering it as one metro - specifically Pulaski Co as a whole has high crime rates. In fact Jacksonville is a problem as well as LR and NLR. I think a unified police force would help in many ways, especially with homicide and narcotics investigations where a larger force with more expertise would be available.

[LRU1967]

All Pulaski Co schools were under federal desegregation. While NLR doesn't have as many "bad press" issues, they also don't have the quality of schools like Central and Horace Mann.

That said, uniting the county under one government, or just NLR and LR, doesn't mean you have to unite the school districts. I would actually prefer NOT to.

I agree about the city manager form of gov't. One would assume in a unified government that would be out the window.

Crime in NLR is scarcely better than that in LR. In all fairness in both cities it's largely limited to older decaying neighborhoods near downtown. If you look at the crime rankings LR makes it's usually considering it as one metro - specifically Pulaski Co as a whole has high crime rates. In fact Jacksonville is a problem as well as LR and NLR. I think a unified police force would help in many ways, especially with homicide and narcotics investigations where a larger force with more expertise would be available.

[LRU1967]

Aporkalypse - why would you prefer not to merge the school districts? It seems to me this would be one of the most obvious benefits of efficiency. This really needs to be considered statewide anyway....

Little Rock's city manager form of government is a major problem in my opinion. The NLR mayor/council form is more responsive and results in stonger leadership.

The NLR School District doesn't have the turmoil of the LR district with it's constant court dates and school board dissension.

Crime in LR with it's understaffed police department.

Minor things such as twice a week trash pickup and the leaf vacuum program that LR doesn't have.

And yes the A&P "flap" which isn't exactly an example of good government.

Of course there are problems in NLR but how would merger with LR solve them?

Why do you assume that a "merger" would result in adopting all of LR's attributes? A merger presents the opportunity to rebuild and reorganize implementing the best attributes of each city and/or completely new approaches to government. Again, listing perceived deficiencies of EITHER city has no bearing whatsoever on the merits or lack thereof of a merger.