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Should Little Rock and North Little Rock merge?


Should Little Rock and North Little Rock form one city again?  

59 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Little Rock and North Little Rock form one city again?

    • Yes
      49
    • No
      9


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Yes all the county is under court supervision but NLR doesn't have LRs "bad press" because it doesn't have the issues LR does. NLR has handled desegregation much better than LR and has avoided much white flight. The LRSD is so fractured both at the board and the administration level that whatever ultimately happens in court a large segment of the patrons and interested parties are going to be very unhappy. My child attended Mann Magnet in the 7th grade and transferred back to Lakewood for the 8th. I saw no difference one way or the other in the level of instruction between the two schools. I'll agree that LRCHS is finest conventional high school in the state.

You're right that the school districts are separate political units from the municipalities. I don't understand why you assume ( you know what assume does to you and me ) that the city manager form would be "out the window". However if the voters of a merged city voted the city manager form out that would be a real plus.

Little Rock has an undermanned police department. NLR is at full strength and my perception is that there is much more crime in LR. Granted that most crime in LR is in the central city south of 630 and in SW LR but it creeps into all areas. The recent attack on a prominent Hillcrest resident and the robberies up and down Rodney Parham are a wake up call and hopefully our new mayor will get something done about it.

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I haven't assumed anything. My comments have primarily been to point out why I don't believe a merger is in the works now or in the foreseeable future. Your views seem to center on what you perceive would be operational efficiencies. My opinion is that until the citizens of NLR feel that merger with LR is in their best interest that it ain't gonna happen. I know of no effort, other than idle speculation, to effect a merger.

I think there's still a lot of hostile feelings in NLR over the attempt in 1980 to force consolidation of the school districts. I don't know if you were living here then but I was, and I remember the how parents in NLR were up in arms.

One other thing which may not have anything to do with this conversation. I have a friend who's somewhat younger than me. One night we and our wives were eating downtown and later drove around and up into Lakewood in NLR. This guy was amazed at the lakes and the housing in Lakewood. He'd lived in LR all his life and didn't know anything about NLR except McCain Mall. I suspect there are a lot of people in LR like my friend.

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NLR hasn't avoided "white flight" at all. There is only a 5% difference between the two cities in terms of percentage of blacks. As far as the schools, LR schools are 70% black, while those in NLR are 64% - hardly different. Per capita income on the LR side is higher. White flight in LR has been to Saline Co and Maumelle. NLR flight has been to Sherwood, Cabot, and Maumelle - where virtually everyone I knew that grew up with me in NLR eventually moved. In any case, flight is the reason both NLR and the county are "zero growth". LR is growing some, largely because of West LR development slightly exceeds abandonment of the inner city. NLR's losses aren't offset because it has nowhere to grow, something that will change slightly when McCain is extended towards Galloway and areas around Scott are developed. This impact will be small, though.

Looking at test scores NLR and LR are quite similar.

I attended Central Jr High in NLR in 7th grade in the late 80s and it was majority black at that time. More importantly, the facilities were awful and by family opted to put me back in Catholic schools for that reason. I grew up in NLR and didn't move until late in HS.

Like LR, NLR has spawned many private schools, including thriving CAC.

Most crime in LR is in central and SWLR and some creeps into other areas as you said. In NLR the only areas really exempt are Lakewood and the Indian Hills area, much the same. As I said, crime through Pulaski Co is routinely high - the crime rate for the county is way above the national average and areas like NLR and Jacksonville contribute to this just as LR does. Levy, Eastgate, Rose City, Baring Cross, etc have big issues. There are few genuine middle class neighborhoods in NLR. NLR is in no way more suburban and less urban than LR.

I love NLR and there are some advantages there. The main one I see is that cool old neighborhoods like Argenta and especially Park Hill are grossly underpriced compared to similar neighborhoods south of the River. Park Hill has potential to be next Hillcrest.

Again, I think that distinguishing the differences between the two is rather difficult. Most people that genuinely identify with NLR have left the city for Sherwood, Maumelle, Cabot, higher income parts of LR, etc. I don't think people feel nearly as strongly about the need to keep a separate identity as they used to, though I do think the people that feel that way are much more vocal.

Getting back to why I feel merger is important, it's largely economic. I just feel like that Pulaski Co united under a strong leader like Patrick Henry Hays could use incentives and combined programs better to land major economic developments and bring the region more jobs. The reason NWA is growing while Pulaski is stagnant is that jobs aren't being created at the rate they could. We may not have a Wal-Mart as an economic engine but we could attract smaller companies much better. Our region as a whole is just poorly marketed. Whatever problems we have, I think LR and NLR are much nicer places to live than most similar-sized cities in the region.

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Your facts on the two school districts are certainly better than my memory. I continue to think that NLR has handled desegregation better than LR.

I'll agree that the region is poorly marketed. I see all the land southeast of LR, which is ideal for manufacturing, distribution etc., and except for the port area I never hear of efforts to bring industry to it. Our city spends a small fortune, through the LRCVB, trying to bring conventions to town but very little on securing permanent industry.

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No one here...to my knowledge...has been arguing that it is imminent. I agree. It is not. We're merely having an academic discussion about the merits or lack thereof of a merger. To this question, no one has yet made a valid argument that it would be a bad idea. There are numerous upsides, few downsides...and perhaps then only emotional.

I'm not disagreeing that you have a differing opinion. I'm just pointing out that it is not very convincing.

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Yes this is an academic discussion as I pointed out in my post on 1/22.

My comments on this topic have been in response to a post by Mith242 on 6/18/05 as follows:

"Just out of curiousity, does anyone know if people in North Little Rock would reject a merging with Little Rock? Would there be many differences to the people of North Little Rock if there were a merging? Just trying to figure out if there would be any basis other than maybe pride."

I believe the answer to Mith242s question is yes they would and I gave a number of reasons why. One other thing you don't seem to realize, no where have I stated my opinion on a merger so what is it you find "not very convincing"?

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  • 1 month later...

Somewhat on-topic: Stodola is holding some "town hall" type meetings at various locations around Little Rock to support the concept of an exectorial mayor rather than the current figure head design. Much opposition to this in the first meeting for reasons that aren't clear other than 1) people feel that this idea is "moving" to quickly and 2) fear that the current city manager (Bruce Moore) might be out of a job. The paper noted that there was a racial divide on this issue as Mr Moore is a minority. Strange, considering that the plans supposedly call for the city manager to report to the mayor, not be fired.

What is also interesting about this is that one of the city manager's divisions is the "Special Projects" division. One of the Special Projects is "Vision Little Rock". ...and one of the recommendations that came from Vision Little Rock was a stronger mayoral position. Go figure...

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Somewhat on-topic: Stodola is holding some "town hall" type meetings at various locations around Little Rock to support the concept of an exectorial mayor rather than the current figure head design. Much opposition to this in the first meeting for reasons that aren't clear other than 1) people feel that this idea is "moving" to quickly and 2) fear that the current city manager (Bruce Moore) might be out of a job. The paper noted that there was a racial divide on this issue as Mr Moore is a minority. Strange, considering that the plans supposedly call for the city manager to report to the mayor, not be fired.

What is also interesting about this is that one of the city manager's divisions is the "Special Projects" division. One of the Special Projects is "Vision Little Rock". ...and one of the recommendations that came from Vision Little Rock was a stronger mayoral position. Go figure...

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Without having read through all the comments, my opinion is no. One reason why is because I believe that the competition between the two cities is useful, as long as it's healthy competition and they're both willing to work together to benefit central Arkansas.

I also like having the option of living under a different local government, and among people with different ideas, all by simply moving across the river. Both cities have a lot of nice qualities, and a lot of problems, but each in their own way and having an option to choose which ones I want is a benefit, imo.

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Without having read through all the comments, my opinion is no. One reason why is because I believe that the competition between the two cities is useful, as long as it's healthy competition and they're both willing to work together to benefit central Arkansas.

I also like having the option of living under a different local government, and among people with different ideas, all by simply moving across the river. Both cities have a lot of nice qualities, and a lot of problems, but each in their own way and having an option to choose which ones I want is a benefit, imo.

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Reasons I live in Midtown....

1) Desire to live in central part of Little Rock. (Idea to live in NLR never entered my radar, my wife may have looked some)

2) Couldn't afford to fix-up a house in Hillcrest.

3) Couldn't afford a house in the Heights.

4) We told our realtor we'd look at anything that was brick and 3 bed and 2 bath.

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Most people outside of Central Arkansas think that North Little Rock is part of Little Rock anyway. I would bet you $100 that if you were to ask someone that lives outside of the LR Metro where is the McCain Mall or Alltel Arena located, that they would just simply say "Little Rock" and would probably have no idea that North Little Rock is actually its own city.

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Most people outside of Central Arkansas think that North Little Rock is part of Little Rock anyway. I would bet you $100 that if you were to ask someone that lives outside of the LR Metro where is the McCain Mall or Alltel Arena located, that they would just simply say "Little Rock" and would probably have no idea that North Little Rock is actually its own city.
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It's normal for people to associate a region with the largest city in that region.

The closest example outside the state would be towns like Germantown and Bartlett, Tenn. Most people who aren't from the area would lump those communities in with Memphis without realizing they are their own cities. So, just because people think they are already the same city... Does that mean they should merge?

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That's not a great example. North Little Rock WAS originally a part of Little Rock. They grew together - their respective City Halls are 0.5 miles from each other. Germantown and Bartlett are fundamentally suburban municipalities that developed with white flight 100 years after Memphis was founded - not to mention they are 20 miles from downtown Memphis. So no, Bartlett & Germantown should not merge with Memphis. And yes, I suggest NLR should merge back with Little Rock (if not a whole county-wide consolidated government).
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  • 1 month later...

I'm an NLR citizen, so I do NOT agree with the idea that the two cities should merge. As far as schools, North Little Rock has great schools. North Little Rock High School was the first public school in Arkansas to offer the International Baccalaureate Program, and it has without doubt, the best fine arts program in the state. The layout of two campuses for the high school where freshmen and sophomores are on one campus and juniors and seniors are on another is great for freshmen who are transitioning to high school, and who might be intimidated by upper-classmen, and for upper-classmen who don't want to deal with freshmen and sophomores. North Little Rock is also much more progressive than Little Rock, in the sense that North Little Rock gets involved in projects coming to the city. It offers much more incentives and is much more pro-active, hense the reason NLR got Bass Pro, the Stadium, etc. I love Little Rock too, but NLR is my home. NLR High School is my alma mater, and I would not give up any of that.

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I'm an NLR citizen, so I do NOT agree with the idea that the two cities should merge. As far as schools, North Little Rock has great schools. North Little Rock High School was the first public school in Arkansas to offer the International Baccalaureate Program, and it has without doubt, the best fine arts program in the state. The layout of two campuses for the high school where freshmen and sophomores are on one campus and juniors and seniors are on another is great for freshmen who are transitioning to high school, and who might be intimidated by upper-classmen, and for upper-classmen who don't want to deal with freshmen and sophomores. North Little Rock is also much more progressive than Little Rock, in the sense that North Little Rock gets involved in projects coming to the city. It offers much more incentives and is much more pro-active, hense the reason NLR got Bass Pro, the Stadium, etc. I love Little Rock too, but NLR is my home. NLR High School is my alma mater, and I would not give up any of that.
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I'm an NLR citizen, so I do NOT agree with the idea that the two cities should merge. As far as schools, North Little Rock has great schools. North Little Rock High School was the first public school in Arkansas to offer the International Baccalaureate Program, and it has without doubt, the best fine arts program in the state. The layout of two campuses for the high school where freshmen and sophomores are on one campus and juniors and seniors are on another is great for freshmen who are transitioning to high school, and who might be intimidated by upper-classmen, and for upper-classmen who don't want to deal with freshmen and sophomores. North Little Rock is also much more progressive than Little Rock, in the sense that North Little Rock gets involved in projects coming to the city. It offers much more incentives and is much more pro-active, hense the reason NLR got Bass Pro, the Stadium, etc. I love Little Rock too, but NLR is my home. NLR High School is my alma mater, and I would not give up any of that.
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No, I know about Parkview, and they do have a very good fine arts program, however, a lot of the attention they get is because of their designation as a "science and arts magnet". North Little Rock did Peter Pan this year to sold out audiences every night. I didn't mean to make North Little Rock sound superior to Little Rock, I was just listing why I like North Little Rock. Sorry if I offended.

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NLR has its positives but to state them as if they are far superior to those of LR is a bit unfair. I will agree that NLRHS has a great Fine Arts prorgram, but IMO it is by no means the best in the state. You must not have seen the recent AR Dem-Gaz spread about Parkview High School's successful production of HIgh School Musical, a Disney mega-hit.

I am for a merger of NLR and LR. It is my belief that a the current system of fragmentation has not aided in the improvement of the cities composing the Greater Little Rock area nor the region itself. It is for this reason that consolidation to become a larger more efficient city would be beneficial to Little Rock and its surrounding cities and towns.

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