Greenville Journal contents

[linkerjpatrick]

I think gsupstate has a valid point.

Not to get into the whole "is Spartanburg a suburb" conversation, but would anyone consider Spartanburg to be a part of Greater Greenville? Honest question. I don't know.

Realize that I was born and raised in Greenville, "old Greenville in fact" I have always seen Spartanburg as Greenville's "little sister" so to speak. Spartanburg is St. Paul as Greenville is to Minneapolis (I've never been to either city BTW). Spartanburg doesn't have a defining natural landmark near the center of town like Paris Mt. (Their is something about Paris Mt. that makes Greenville feel "anchored" and more connected to nature. I always get a feeling like I am in a state closer to the plains or "middle America" When I hear John Cougar Melleancamp songs I picture being in Spartanburg. For the record however I like listening to JCM. Spartanburg could have been just at home along Route 66 and Highway 29 but in a lot of repects 29 is the 66 of the part of the country. I don't really consider it to be a part of Greater Greenville. Greater Greenvillle for me extends to Easley and Greer on the east and west but Greer is making such a name for itself that it doesn't have to be. Even though Greer is half in Spartanburg County I don't consider Greer to be a part of Greater Spartanburg (nor have I ever heard the term "Greater Spartanburg") Tigerville to the North and Fountain Inn to the south.

[Spartan]

Not to get into the whole "is Spartanburg a suburb" conversation, but would anyone consider Spartanburg to be a part of Greater Greenville? Honest question. I don't know.

Within South Carolina and maybe the general region between Atlanta and Charlotte, I would say no. I think that if you know the area that there is a distinct separation between the two. Obviously they are very highly connected, and since we share an airport it becomes more of a Raleigh-Durham situation for most people. So I think the answer is that they are separate but still one in the eyes of outsiders. The key difference is that the Upstate doesn't market itself as "Greenville-Spartanburg" in the same way that Raleigh-Durham does.

I have heard plenty of people say "Greenville" in reference to the airport just like they say "Greensboro" for PTI. But its always in the context of "I'm flying out of Greenville" or something to that effect (though I will add that most people in Spartanburg say "GSP"). But in both cases, people always make the direct connection to flying.

Any in my experience, when talking about the physical airport itself most people will say "GSP" (for example, any local weatherman will talk about the temps at GSP). So when it was said that "FedEx was looking at Greenville," it sounded to me like they were looking at the city rather than the airport.

Realize that I was born and raised in Greenville, "old Greenville in fact" I have always seen Spartanburg as Greenville's "little sister" so to speak. Spartanburg is St. Paul as Greenville is to Minneapolis (I've never been to either city BTW). Spartanburg doesn't have a defining natural landmark near the center of town like Paris Mt. (Their is something about Paris Mt. that makes Greenville feel "anchored" and more connected to nature. I always get a feeling like I am in a state closer to the plains or "middle America" When I hear John Cougar Melleancamp songs I picture being in Spartanburg. For the record however I like listening to JCM. Spartanburg could have been just at home along Route 66 and Highway 29 but in a lot of repects 29 is the 66 of the part of the country. I don't really consider it to be a part of Greater Greenville. Greater Greenvillle for me extends to Easley and Greer on the east and west but Greer is making such a name for itself that it doesn't have to be. Even though Greer is half in Spartanburg County I don't consider Greer to be a part of Greater Spartanburg (nor have I ever heard the term "Greater Spartanburg") Tigerville to the North and Fountain Inn to the south.

No offense, but that statement is entirely unfair. The location of a local natural landmark is irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything. Greenville isn't located where it is because of Paris Mountain, it was because of the Reedy River. Now, those aspects of Greenville are certainly attractive and I agree that they add a lot to Greenville. But you have to recognize the reality of Greenville and Spartanburg's history. Both cities grew up around textiles which were placed in the Carolina Piedmont area because of the same natural geography. Spartanburg has rivers too, just not in downtown. To say that you can throw Spartanburg out on route 66 is simply false.

As for "Greater Spartanburg" ..... that term isn't really used. People refer to the "Spartanburg area" in the same context as "greater Greenville." The larger Spartanburg area generally includes everything from the Duncan area in the west to Cowpens in the east and from Pauline and Pacolet in the South to Landrum and Chesnee in the north. I think that over time you will see Gaffney and Union become more highly connected to Spartanburg than they are now. Greer is kind of its own entity in some sense, which is evident in that they have their own Chamber of Commerce, even though they have a more direct connection to Greenville.

[linkerjpatrick]

My remarks about Paris Mountain and Route 66 may not be "fair" but realize that others may also have this same "general impression." The route 66 thing was not meant to be a knock either. In fact when I have the time I love to drive Highway 29 instead of 85 to get more of that old America feel that was so well presented in the movie Cars. I still prefer to drive the old part of 85 instead of the new loop around Spartanburg. Not only does it seem shorter (abit slower) but I like I how feel more connected to Spartanburg when going that way. I'm just not a big fan of the geography of Spartanburg compared to Greenville. Greenville's geography seems to give it more "personality" and the downtown of Spartanburg still has a very run down feel despite efforts.

Also while not really a big mountain their is nothing like seeing Paris Mountain for different vantage points around Greenville. Towers and all.

[gs3]

In regards to GSP, this thought just came in my head and really concerns me. I'm flying to "Dallas" this week on business, and now I'm in quite the pickle. I've always landed in Dallas with my mind on work, but not this time.......I need to let my Admin know that I am really not landing in Dallas, but landing in Grapevine....no wait, really landing in Irving.....no wait, it is Arlington......no wait, really landing in the "town" of DFW because DFW has it's own zip code. Man, I'm not really going to "Dallas" at all am I? What was I thinking?

Back to TBA's......

From this week August 15:

- The demolition of the building known as the "Green Monster" in the West End could happen by the end of the year. After almost two years of battling, the owners received approval for a new structure at the intersection of Main and River streets.

- There is talk circling about a new supermarket at the intersection of Highways 153 and Highway 81 in Powdersville.

- A project that had stalled is now well underway. The Hamptons condos, in a former church in the Hampton-Pinckney district.

- People driving along 85 at the Greenville / Anderson county line have seen a large building being constructed off the frontage road. It is a new manufacturing facility for Interfilm (a plastics company).

- The Swamp Rabbit Trail is moving closer to completion. There has been a lot of work done on the landscaping along the trail, especially near Furman University. Not only is this trail seen as a quality of life tool, some developers see it being a way to open large parts of western Greenville for construction.

[Greenville]

In regards to GSP, this thought just came in my head and really concerns me. I'm flying to "Dallas" this week on business, and now I'm in quite the pickle. I've always landed in Dallas with my mind on work, but not this time.......I need to let my Admin know that I am really not landing in Dallas, but landing in Grapevine....no wait, really landing in Irving.....no wait, it is Arlington......no wait, really landing in the "town" of DFW because DFW has it's own zip code. Man, I'm not really going to "Dallas" at all am I? What was I thinking?

Spartanburg is certainly distinct from Greenville, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is its own metro area. And like it or not, GSP will be one combined metro again in the near future. Many people will view Spartanburg as a suburb of Greenville. Should that take anything away from Spartanburg? No. Should people who ooze Spartanburg pride feel that it detracts from Spartanburg's distinct identity? Nope. Because everyone knows that Spartanburg has an impressive population base and has contributed a lot of great things to the metro area. And isn't that what really matters?

If we would think on a larger scale and embrace the idea of GSP as one large metro, we would advance ourselves to the level of other metros like Raleigh-Durham.

[linkerjpatrick]

If we would think on a larger scale and embrace the idea of GSP as one large metro, we would advance ourselves to the level of other metros like Raleigh-Durham.

Should we be refering to the area as GSA instead of GSP? GSP is the airport letters but we have started calling the area that anyway. Why should Spartanburg get two letters and Greenville one?

We do however have the Anderson recognition in the GSA Business paper, GSATC (GSA technology Council), etc. At least as far as the I-85 coridor, etc. Maybe we should include Pickens County because of Easley and call it GASP.

[goodbye]

Back to TBA's......

From this week August 15:

- There is talk circling about a new supermarket at the intersection of Highways 153 and Highway 81 in Powdersville.

I have heard about a possible Target near one corner and a Bloom on the opposite corner. The Target would go on property that actually fronts McNeely Road. The Bloom could go on property bordered by Hwy 153, Hwy 81, and Three Bridges Road.

[Greenville]

Should we be refering to the area as GSA instead of GSP? GSP is the airport letters but we have started calling the area that anyway. Why should Spartanburg get two letters and Greenville one?

We do however have the Anderson recognition in the GSA Business paper, GSATC (GSA technology Council), etc. At least as far as the I-85 coridor, etc. Maybe we should include Pickens County because of Easley and call it GASP.

Yes, we should include Anderson too.

My point is that the entire region will soon be considered the Greater Greenville area, and that won't take away a thing from the cities and towns contained within. It's just the nature of growth and progress.

[linkerjpatrick]

Yes, we should include Anderson too.

My point is that the entire region will soon be considered the Greater Greenville area, and that won't take away a thing from the cities and towns contained within. It's just the nature of growth and progress.

At a recent meeting of the GSATC a speaker actually talked about how this area is the center of what they are calling "Charlanta" so on a larger scale the Greenville-Spartanburg area is to Charlotte and Atlanta as Greer is to Greenville and Spartanburg.

[Spartan]

In regards to GSP, this thought just came in my head and really concerns me. I'm flying to "Dallas" this week on business, and now I'm in quite the pickle. I've always landed in Dallas with my mind on work, but not this time.......I need to let my Admin know that I am really not landing in Dallas, but landing in Grapevine....no wait, really landing in Irving.....no wait, it is Arlington......no wait, really landing in the "town" of DFW because DFW has it's own zip code. Man, I'm not really going to "Dallas" at all am I? What was I thinking?

It sounds like DFW might have a bit of an identity crisis.

If we would think on a larger scale and embrace the idea of GSP as one large metro, we would advance ourselves to the level of other metros like Raleigh-Durham.

Indeed.

[silverseale]

I think gsupstate has a valid point.

Not to get into the whole "is Spartanburg a suburb" conversation, but would anyone consider Spartanburg to be a part of Greater Greenville? Honest question. I don't know.

Now, that is truly a new one on me. I've lived in Greenville for 26 years and never has it occurred to me (or would it) that Spartanburg is "a part of Greater Greenville."

Spartanburg has its own particular character.

[gs3]

Now, that is truly a new one on me. I've lived in Greenville for 26 years and never has it occurred to me (or would it) that Spartanburg is "a part of Greater Greenville."

Spartanburg has its own particular character.

I don't think Spartanburg "city" is part of Greenville, but Spartanburg "county" around the airport is certainly the Greenville burbs. When I moved here and was house hunting on the eastside, I was back and forth over the county line many times.....it was all Greenville to me. With the nonstop buildup of neighborhoods and shopping, that part of Spartanburg County is Greenville.....maybe not according to the drawn municipal boundaries, but it is according to marketing demographics.

Some residents of Spartanburg seem a bit upset that Greater Greenville is spilling into "their county". If I was them, I would be happy. Demographically, that side of Greater Greenville that is spilling over has some fo the highest per capita incomes. I'd call it very good spillover.....developers could be selfish and keep all the $$$$ in Greenville county.

[Greenville]

Now, that is truly a new one on me. I've lived in Greenville for 26 years and never has it occurred to me (or would it) that Spartanburg is "a part of Greater Greenville."

Spartanburg has its own particular character.

Being a part of a metro area doesn't mean that a given place loses its character. Beverly Hills is part of the greater Los Angeles area, but I think everyone agrees that it has its own particular character. I simply don't see a metro area as a collection of cookie cutter cities and towns with no identity. Rather, the areas have their own vibes and contribute to the heterogeneity of the entire metro area.

This difference can even be appreciated in Greenville's CBD. The North End, the Center City area, and the West End all have their own distinct vibe that is different from the others. They are all considered "downtown Greenville," but they are markedly different to those who take the time to appreciate the specific subtleties that exist.

Spartanburg is its own city, with its own identity for sure. But it is still a part of Greater Greenville if you ask me. Why should that take anything away from Spartanburg?

[gman430]

-Project Teal, which could bring 1,000 jobs to Greenville, is expected to be a regional headquarters for Samsung...

-Expect an announcement this week on whether GHS USA Cycling Professional Championships will come back to Greenville. All signs point to the major cycling event coming back to town. Greenville has been the host for the last three years...

-The down economy has led to more pre-leasing before a developer will start construction. This was one of the major reasons several area projects, including Magnolia Park, are considered viable even though no work seems to be going on...

-The General Services Administration is said to be rethinking a new federal courthouse in downtown Greenville. Agency officials had said they were looking at three spots downtown, but may now be pursuing a fourth on McBee Avenue, directly behind the current courthouse...

-City officials are expecting work to restart on the Peacock Hotel sometime early next year. There had been hope that the luxury hotel project on the corner of McBee Avenue and Spring Street would start in late 2008. Construction has been delayed since the spring...

-HS Pharma, the Greenville/Pickens-based company that is behind the skin ointment Bensal HP, is expected to make some big announcements in the early fall. The company has made headlines for its product's ability to help cure wounds, including staph infection. The secret ingredient is the extract of red oak bark...

[GvilleSC]

I really like the idea for the Courthouse, actually! That plot of land is relatively small, it could use the urbanity on McBee, and the view of a beautifully designed building coming over the Church Street Bridge would be stunning!!

It could be neat to have a government row... A County Courthouse on North St, Bankruptcy Courthouse on Washington, and a Federal Courthouse on McBee... of course, in the grand scheme of things, Federal offices, as well as State and County offices, are all housed at County Square too in the same linear path... There might not be enough separation of Church (STREET) and State!

Thanks for sharing the TBAs!

[Spartan]

I don't think Spartanburg "city" is part of Greenville, but Spartanburg "county" around the airport is certainly the Greenville burbs. When I moved here and was house hunting on the eastside, I was back and forth over the county line many times.....it was all Greenville to me. With the nonstop buildup of neighborhoods and shopping, that part of Spartanburg County is Greenville.....maybe not according to the drawn municipal boundaries, but it is according to marketing demographics.

Some residents of Spartanburg seem a bit upset that Greater Greenville is spilling into "their county". If I was them, I would be happy. Demographically, that side of Greater Greenville that is spilling over has some fo the highest per capita incomes. I'd call it very good spillover.....developers could be selfish and keep all the $$$$ in Greenville county.

This is probably the most accurate way that I've seen it put. I think what irks some people from Spartanburg is not that part of the county is within the Greenville sphere of influence, its that many Greenvillians don't like to acknowledge that there is a "grey zone" of sorts, that is influenced by both cities. There is a reason that the airport and BMW are where they are. Its not solely because of Greenville or Spartanburg, its the combination of two that makes that area such a strong region for residential growth, job recruitment, etc.

The other reality is that regardless of the current situation, we are going to physically grow together and literally be a seamless urban area regardless of what the people in the Golden Box and Reidville think. Both cities/counties need to cooperate better on all fronts to manage the growth in this part of the world. It will fall largely on Spartanburg County's hands.... and the upcoming zoning decision will play a major role. Thats why I hope that people in the Greer area will do their part to support this effort.

[distortedlogic]

-City officials are expecting work to restart on the Peacock Hotel sometime early next year. There had been hope that the luxury hotel project on the corner of McBee Avenue and Spring Street would start in late 2008. Construction has been delayed since the spring...

I think it's funny how this is worded; they "expect", and "sometime early". Sounds more like wishful thinking for a start in the first half of the year.

Should we take bets on whether or not this ever gets completed?

[DowntownCityGirl]

I think it's funny how this is worded; they "expect", and "sometime early". Sounds more like wishful thinking for a start in the first half of the year.

Should we take bets on whether or not this ever gets completed?

Actually, I've heard recently that this item simply is not true -- from multiple parties including City Staff...

[gman430]

Actually, I've heard recently that this item simply is not true -- from multiple parties including City Staff...

Which part?

[GvilleSC]

Not true in what sense? That it will ever start construction, or the actual time frame, or that City officials aren't really doing much expecting?

[distortedlogic]

Actually, I've heard recently that this item simply is not true -- from multiple parties including City Staff...

I am confused by this statement too, but it sounds like DCG is talking about the idea that it will start back early next year is not true; is that correct DCG?

I have a question for anyone who may know about these sort of things. What would be done with the site (as well as what has already been constructed) if this falls through? Will it just stand there until someone else buys it and does something new? Will the peacock developers be required to tear it down and make the site more presentable? Something else?

[DowntownCityGirl]

Sorry - you're right...that was totally unclear! Regarding the Peacock Hotel project, all of the people I've spoken to (including some at the City) are saying that the Peacock project as we know it is not likely to start up later this year, early next year, or ever, really. They all agree something will eventually happen at this site, but the impression I got was that it would be an entirely different project (even if it's a hotel and even if it's called The Peacock) -- and that while there's no set plan for that, the new project could be undertaken by the Peacock developers or different developers altogether.

So reading that line in the TBAs was very surprising.

[distortedlogic]

Hmm, that's very interesting. I can't say that I would be surprised at all, as this thing just never seemed to have it's act together. I am not too sure I would be very disappointed either, considering how disappointing the remake was. Still, I do not want to see the site stay like it is for years.

[Greenville]

I'm tired of the drama with the Peacock. The initial renderings were great, but it went downhill after that with the groundbreaking, then the delay, then the disappointing scaled-back version, then another delay, etc. I am sure they are doing the best they can, but it's been a very slow process and I'm not sure it is worth the wait. If we're going to invest a few years waiting for a project, I would rather see a 20+ story mixed use building with skyline-changing architecture.

[distortedlogic]

No arguments here, but I just doen't see a 20+ storey highrise in Greenville's future anytime soon. Every project of any height proposed over the past 5 years has fallen through. Period. Supposedly we still have a couple of projects with height still on the table; ie Riverplace 3 and Gateway, but I have a bad feeling about gateway, ie no info for months, no returned calls, etc. I think we may just be in a phase in our development where the low and mid rise projects are able to do well, but there isn't enough demand yet for high-rise. But at this point, I too am willing to wait a few years on a better project for the peacock site.